Creating a New Nation! The New C.S.A. (2)

[ShieldOFaith]

WHAT?!!?? That is the message you take from that. Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and what you get from the whole thing is an obscure technicality?!

The law in Lev doesn't say they have to be put to death at the same time, only that they shall both be put to death.

It's not a technicality. If you read verse 6 in that passage you get it.

The whole thing is a set up. The moral of the story is you can not trick GOD. You can never set GOD up and trick Him into anything.

HE'S a little too smart for simple little humans to trick Him.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. 35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?" --Dan. 4[/FONT]

 

[Avatar]

It's not a technicality. If you read verse 6 in that passage you get it.

The whole thing is a set up. The moral of the story is you can not trick GOD. You can never set GOD up and trick Him into anything.

HE'S a little too smart for simple little humans to trick Him.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. 35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?" --Dan. 4[/FONT]

How many times did you have to hit the backspace key because cheeseburger crumbs were hitting the keyboard?

Sinner.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Nope. The verse simply says government is a tool God can use to punish evildoers, it says nothing of the morality of the State doing that.

Remember how in the OT God uses evil nations for his own purposes such as to punish Israel? It's the same principle with the State. That it can be used to punish evil doers and used in God's plan does not mean it is in itself good.

The execution of Jesus by you vaunted authority also illustrates this. Pilate had the power to kill Jesus, but was his execution of Jesus right?
You know that verse you mentioned earlier about those who gave Pilate power having the greater sin? Well, lesser sin is still a sin.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. --Romans 13

So God did NOT appoint the authorities, and he does bear the sword in vain?

Because that is what I said. I said that GOD gave the government the authority to execute Capital Punishment.

But you are saying that GOD did not give the government the authority to execute capital punishment; right?

Even though the Holy Spirit just got done saying that "For he (the government) is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain,".

Who am I to believe? You or God the Holy Spirit?

Guess what? I am going to believe GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT!

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. --Rom. 13

I'll believe that GOD has given the governing authorities their authority. Because this is what GOD says. I will believe that the government has the RIGHT to execute vile criminals because GOD says so.

I will not believe you because you are saying something contrary to Scripture.

Yeah! I'm still right.
[/FONT]

 

[Nathan Poe]

Does it, or does it not posses the authority to exercise Capital Punishment?

From God, or from itself?

 

[Nathan Poe]

My Bible College was awesome.

It helped me learn this:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. --Romans 13[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]I learned this and wow! I understand that the GOVERNMENT has been given authority by GOD to execute wrath on him who practices evil!!! Yeehah![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Therefore I am RIGHT. GOD has given the government the right to execute evil vile criminals. Thank you.[/FONT]

Would that right extend to ALL governments? Do they ALL have the right to execute vile criminals?

 

[Electric Skeptic]

My Bible College was awesome.

It helped me learn this:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. --Romans 13

I learned this and wow! I understand that the GOVERNMENT has been given authority by GOD to execute wrath on him who practices evil!!! Yeehah!

Therefore I am RIGHT. GOD has given the government the right to execute evil vile criminals. Thank you.[/FONT]

And so the government has been given authority by GOD to, for example, legalise gay marriages?

 

[Nathan Poe]

And so the government has been given authority by GOD to, for example, legalise gay marriages?

Marriage -- by far the most severe punishment anyone could give gays.

 

[Deadbolt]

And so the government has been given authority by GOD to, for example, legalise gay marriages?

OSNAP~! caught in his own trap, think he'll ignore it or find some way to slither his way out?

 

[DrStrangelove]

OSNAP~! caught in his own trap, think he'll ignore it or find some way to slither his way out?

...you sure he could fit through the hole?

 

[Sycophant]

OSNAP~! caught in his own trap, think he'll ignore it or find some way to slither his way out?

I suspect that governments only have god's blessing to do things he likes (as decided by SoF). This includes killing people and outlawing free speech and artistic expression, but not recognising the loving civil partnership of two people of the same sex.

That is the government going renegade.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

I suspect that governments only have god's blessing to do things he likes (as decided by SoF). This includes killing people and outlawing free speech and artistic expression, but not recognising the loving civil partnership of two people of the same sex.

That is the government going renegade.

If SoF did in fact get his precious CSA, he would appoint himself God's vicar on Earth, in all but name and quite possibly that as well. That's how most theocrats operate...since God doesn't come down and make His will apparent on day-to-day issues and controversies, someone has to play oracle and "interpret" His will, right? And three guesses as to who that would be in any country SoF ran...

Heck, SoF would probably appoint his horse as a Senator...

 

[tulc]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] Yeah! I'm still right.[/FONT]

You seem to get to this place where, when you can't support your argument anymore, you simply declare victory.
tulc(guesses that's a lot easier then proving it)

 

[reverend B]

so sadaam, pol pot, idi amin, lenin, hitler were all installed by God and the people were obligated to follow their directives? are you sure paul wasn't just sucking up to rome to try to relieve the pressure on the relatively new church that had been established there, and was considered a threat to the ruling elite? think about it, sof. the five guys mentioned above killed millions of innocents. these are God's guys?

i have heard that pathetic abortion of interpretation of the story of casting the first stone many times, and it is an agenda driven massaging of a very straight forward and awe-inspiring piece of scripture. they weren't trying to trick him with a technicality. He was bringing a higher ethic to bear. we don't need Jesus to lead us to bloodlust. we personify it. we need Him to show us how to rise above it, and this is one of the stories that teaches that very basic lesson. your Bible college abused you and sent you out on an agenda driven errand. you aren't kurtz. you are the errand boy, being used by those who know exactly how to manipulate. we will keep praying for you, that you have a break through and get to meet the most awesome God there is. He is a God of love. He loves you. you will have to be broken from this, and maybe the overwhelming disgust that you have managed to elicit from all kinds of Christians will be the mud and spittle paste that gets applied to your eyes and lets you see, finally, how beautiful Jesus really is.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

You seem to get to this place where, when you can't support your argument anymore, you simply declare victory.
tulc(guesses that's a lot easier then proving it)

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. --Romans 13

Already proven.

I'm right, and anyone who says different is wrong.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.
[/FONT]

 

[reverend B]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1
I'm right, and anyone who says different is wrong.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.
[/FONT]

this is the same mindset that characterized sadaam, pol pot, idi amin, stalin and hitler. they, too, would brook no dissent.

why no response to your obesity? too close to home?

you can not imagine being wrong? what is that like? it must feel very lonely, being the only person on earth with all the answers. that is what you are saying, you know, as you will never find another human that agrees with you on everything. only you hold the key. kurtz felt the same way. he took his own life. you know why? he was crazy!

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

Already proven.

I'm right, and anyone who says different is wrong.
[/FONT]

You're a legend in your own mind.

Definitely you are bearing out the post I made earlier about how you would appoint yourself God's vicar...here we have the first step, a proclamation of inerrancy.

 

[mpok1519]

You obviously have a problem with authority. With one fell swoop of your keyboard you smeared all Christian leaders as crazy. You as far as I can see are not truly saved. A true Christian will recognize the Word of God and understand that GOD gave us:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, --Eph. 4.

So your words are hollow, they have no authority. Your rebuke means absolutely nothing.

Here is something that does mean something though.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. --ROMANS 13

AWESOME!!!
[/FONT]

I'm not rebuking you, I'm saying GET PROFESSIONAL HELP! I dont care about any 'rebuking'. (why do they use that word all the time? REbuking? as if it has anymore meaning than any other word, or even a period or comma for that matter), I care about what you may do to someone if you're given the chance considering the narrow and pathologically sociopathic line you seem to be walking. Ultimately, I care about what you might do possibly to your family or friends.

Please answer these questions;

So if you believe the scripture so whole-heartedly, do you ACTUALLY feel the need to kill adulterers, substance-abusers, homosexuals, as it has been commanded by God?

Do you get an urge to 'cleanse' them from the earth?

If you were given the chance, and you knew no one would find out, would you kill a sinner as it is commanded in the Bible?

Also, if you're saying God put All Government in power, you're saying He put Nero, Hitler, Ghengis Kahn, and Pol Pot into power, and that the people were subject to them as commanded by God, no matter how diabolocal, psychotic, insane, or sadistic they are, correct?

If the govt jumped off a bridge, does that mean you should too?

(this cant be possible, by the way, Sheild. Why would you think such things? Why do you choose to read the Bible in such a harmful way? you know its not the right way)

Please, does anyone have any scripture pointing towards how "You shouldn't follow crazy or stupid people if it put you in danger?"

 

[TheReasoner]

Sounding crazy???

Listen FG, you are starting to get a little bent here. I suggest that you calm down.

I compared you to the Gestapo and Hitler because that's who you look like. And I don't mean physically, I mean ideologically, ethically and politically.

You are the one sounding very paranoid right now. Seriously.

Paranoid? No. Like one who has paid attention in history classes maybe. But paranoid, no.

Equating me with the Gestapo? Come on bro, lay off the coffee for today. Take a few deep breaths before you post bro. Look at the big picture and take a step back.

Everyone is making that comparison, and I stand by it. You are insane, evil, possessed or any combination of the aforementioned. The only difference between you and a gestapo officer is that the officer did what you want to do. That's all.

Calm down and smile a little. This is just conversation, this is not armed confrontation.

If you ever get to a position where what you have outlined is about to unfold - it will be an armed confrontation.

So God did NOT appoint the authorities, and he does bear the sword in vain?

You know, technically the sword is a weapon of war, not of execution. The axe or the gallows or the cross are symbols of execution. The sword is one of authority and war. Not of execution.

But you are saying that GOD did not give the government the authority to execute capital punishment; right?

Man has given himself the "right" to kill one another. I am quite tired of man letting God take the blame for his own evil deeds.

Even though the Holy Spirit just got done saying that "For he (the government) is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain,".

As I have said, that verse cannot be said to be conclusive in respects to the capital punishment. If it had been, there would have been mention of something other than the sword.

Who am I to believe? You or God the Holy Spirit?

Well, it seems like you believe neither one.

Guess what? I am going to believe GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT!

Please start doing so. It would be nice if you did. So far you have only believed yourself it seems like.

I'm right, and anyone who says different is wrong.

You HAVE to be joking?! I mean, sure, I know you're evil (no joke), but this is just stupid.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

Why don't you say something that fits, you know GOTT MIT UNDS.. Oh, sorry that was Hitler. Or what about DEUS VULT.... No, crusades...
Hey, I know. Instead of trying to mask it behind a Christian facade which is so very far from true Christianity, why not say something which fits you instead? I don't know... Baphomet invictus maybe? Or perhaps Dominion per insania... Suits you.

 

[Suomipoika]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

I learned this and wow! I understand that the GOVERNMENT has been given authority by GOD to execute wrath on him who practices evil!!! Yeehah!

[/FONT]

And approximately 5 years after the writing of the letter to the church of Rome, this very same government was to execute wrath upon apostle Paul's own throat. In Rome. Yet, God had seen it appropriate in the first place to choose this man of all the sinners available - a man who used to be notorious for persecuting the followers of Christ and even getting some of them executed - God had seen it very appropriate to make this man, of all sinners available, into the frontline 'apostle to the gentiles' of whe whole world and for the whole 2000 years and more that the church would be on this earth.

You should really learn to read Scripture in context. Right now you are reading it like the devil, and the results in practice would be some of the most evil, satanic "cleansing" acts the world has ever seen.

 

[Suomipoika]

i have heard that pathetic abortideon of interpretation of the story of casting the first stone many times, and it is an agenda driven massaging of a very straight forward and awe-inspiring piece of scripture. they weren't trying to trick him with a technicality. He was bringing a higher ethic to bear.

Yeah.. isn't it interesting to think that the happenings in John 7 would have been narrated in a way that understanding the whole (alleged) point of the story ("Jesus being 'set up' by the pharisees" instead of "Jesus forgiving the adulteress") would require an extremely complex and calculated elaboration of the happenings and the background? Doesn't it seem obvious that the point of this simple story, twhe climax, is Jesus saying to the adulteress the words "neither do I (judge you), go and sin no more"? Because that is certainly what the listeners of this story in the 1st century - as it was first transmitted as an oral tradition - 'extracted' from it.

When Jesus and/or other teachers of that time told stories or parables to people, they were stories that were meant to have an immediate impact on the listeners. It's simply absurd to think that the real point of the story of Jesus and the adultress as narrated in John 7 would be something that only later readers would grasp, after an almost-esoteric research on the passage and its alleged "context". At least the fact that this passage was a later addition to the Gospel of John should indicate that it was originally a story that was primarily spread orally, as a very strong oral tradition. And as an orally-transmitted story, how credible is it really to think that its whole point would actually be something else than what can be readily found in the lines of that story? Why on earth would the story of Jesus and the adulteress have been so widely transmitted in the form in which it was transmitted in the first century if its primary meaning had really been to point out something that is not explicitly said in the story? That makes no sense what so ever. Why would the story have been spoken, spread, transmitted and finally recorded in a way that speaks past its deepest point, leaving that point as a challenge for future generations of 20th century Bible scholars in Dallas Theological Seminary to "find out"? Why this "false climax"? Why not actually say that the point is to show how Jesus was 'set up' if that was the intention? This kind of esotericism sure doesn't sound like the way of Jesus to me..