Could Peter have done otherwise?

[Derf]

God doesn’t learn. Learning indicates change. God doesn’t change. He’s immutable.

God took on a human nature. Sounds like a change. God repented of making mankind. Sounds like a change. Every time God interacts with humans, it's a change in that He wasn't interacting with them that way before.

 

[Hammster]

God took on a human nature. Sounds like a change. God repented of making mankind. Sounds like a change. Every time God interacts with humans, it's a change in that He wasn't interacting with them that way before.

Okay. You have a mutable god. I don’t.

 

[bling]

I could give you possible ideas how it might work, but I prefer to say it's a mystery. I don't fully know how. I wouldn't go there and say it means God doesn't know everything, because I am quite certain He does.

Read my post 180

 

[bling]

Exactly. Whatever God knows will happen will happen.

It is only "will happen" for us, since it did happen already for God at the end of time.

 

[bling]

Everything in the future is set in stone as well.

Everything future for us is set in stone, but we laid some of those stones.

 

[bling]

Then, you would say that God was not expecting to learn anything from Adam that day--that all of the animal's names were predetermined, right? In the same way that Peter's denial was predetermined?

Rad my post 180

 

[bling]

God does not only know the actual outcomes of things but also potential outcomes. The prophecy He gave to Hezekiah was a potential outcome, leaving for Hezekiah to respond to it. Of course God knew Hezekiah would respond, but the outcome at the time of the prophecy was that he would die, but God was willing to change that. So God gave first Hezekiah the prophecy of the potential outcome.

It would have been much better if Hezekiah had died since with his added years produced a very wicked son and showed his wealth off to a nation that would later attack Jerusalem.
When God says something he is going to do it is always contingent:
Jer. 18:7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

 

[bling]

God took on a human nature. Sounds like a change. God repented of making mankind. Sounds like a change. Every time God interacts with humans, it's a change in that He wasn't interacting with them that way before.

Read Jer. 18:7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

When God says He is going to do something it can be contingent on man's actions. Also read my other posts on this.

 

[Derf]

Okay. You have a mutable god. I don’t.

Yet the descriptions I gave were from the scriptures. Yours is not the God of those scriptures?

 

[Derf]

It would have been much better if Hezekiah had died since with his added years produced a very wicked son and showed his wealth off to a nation that would later attack Jerusalem.

Yet without those 15 years, that particular line of David, the kingly line, would have failed.

 

[bling]

Yet without those 15 years, that particular line of David, the kingly line, would have failed.

Was Hezekiah the only descendent of David alive at the time?

 

[Derf]

Was Hezekiah the only descendent of David alive at the time?

No, but read my post again. The kingly line is the one through Solomon, who only had one male child recorded in scripture that I know of.

 

[Derf]

It is only "will happen" for us, since it did happen already for God at the end of time.

Do you have any bible verses telling us that our future has already happened for God?

 

[Guojing]

Did Jesus also see Himself telling Peter that he would deny Him?

I have no idea, whether yes or no, why is that important to the point I was making?

 

[Hammster]

I have no idea, whether yes or no, why is that important to the point I was making?

Because if Jesus only said it because He saw what Peter would do, it changes the whole narrative.

 

[bling]

Do you have any bible verses telling us that our future has already happened for God?

We do not know how any miracles were done, we just know the results.
We do know every experiment over the last 100 years to try and disprove the relativity of time has only supported the idea time is relative, but do you believe time is relative?
How relative would time be for God?
Do you believe God is omnipresent throughout the universe, yet the Bible does not say how God could do such a thing?
Do you see an all-powerful God being limited by time and yet time to be relative?
Is it some great leap of faith to believe God is not limited by time and thus just as He is omnipresent in the present time, He would be omnipresent throughout time?

 

[Derf]

We do not know how any miracles were done, we just know the results.
We do know every experiment over the last 100 years to try and disprove the relativity of time has only supported the idea time is relative, but do you believe time is relative?
How relative would time be for God?
Do you believe God is omnipresent throughout the universe, yet the Bible does not say how God could do such a thing?
Do you see an all-powerful God being limited by time and yet time to be relative?
Is it some great leap of faith to believe God is not limited by time and thus just as He is omnipresent in the present time, He would be omnipresent throughout time?

If He's present at all points of time, fine, but if you're saying he experiences all points of time simultaneously, there's no biblical warrant for such a thing. God's actions are always described sequentially in the bible, even the ones where action is taking place in heaven.

 

[Derf]

Because if Jesus only said it because He saw what Peter would do, it changes the whole narrative.

Can you explain how the narrative changes?

 

[Hammster]

Can you explain how the narrative changes?

Let’s say that Peter was going to deny Christ three times regardless of anything else happening. So let’s assume that Jesus knew this, and because He knew this, He made His proclamation. What changes is how and why Peter wept. It’s possible that Jesus saw him weep out of guilt. So there still could be weeping. But after Jesus made His proclamation, Peter wept when he remembered Jesus’ words. So by interjecting Himself into the story, He changed the narrative.

 

[bling]

Let’s say that Peter was going to deny Christ three times regardless of anything else happening. So let’s assume that Jesus knew this, and because He knew this, He made His proclamation. What changes is how and why Peter wept. It’s possible that Jesus saw him weep out of guilt. So there still could be weeping. But after Jesus made His proclamation, Peter wept when he remembered Jesus’ words. So by interjecting Himself into the story, He changed the narrative.

Of course Jesus new the desired results happened (Peter humbly repented of his own free will) and Jesus also knew from prophecy Judas would hang himself of his own free will. All Jesus says helps people to make the right choice, but the choice is still theirs to make.