Sorry lost this.
Thanks for mentioning this. The Lamb was not slain "before" the foundation of the world, but "from". Why the difference? Because the Father and the Son had already agreed that the Son would have to die to save mankind if they were to create mankind.
No issue
Then you are assuming your view is possible, if not the only possible option. As an assumption, it doesn't seem to be mandated by scripture.
We are not given how God does any miracle, so this is no different.
He doesn't need it, it is part of His character, that He does things decently and in good order. If God is all wise, then He doesn't need to go back and erase past mistakes, but that is what you are suggesting He does.
NOT at ALL!!!
God does everything perfectly right the first and really only time, so there is never anything for God to change or do over.
Relationship. If God knows everything we will ever do before we do it, then He is merely planning all of His responses to us--there's no need to plead with us, to cajole us, to tell us to make good choices.
We also lose free-will. If all of our choices are already determined before we exist, then our choices are not really our choices, but someone else's. Loss of free-will also means loss of relationship. You can't really have a meaningful relationship with a robot that you yourself programmed.
God only acts one way and that is the very best way for Him to act. If I knew a person was going to betray me in the future, I would act differently toward him, but Jesus knew Judas would/did betray Him in the future, but Jesus did not change His behavior toward Judas, it was to be Judas’ choice.
No you made free will choices, it is just the fact Deity knows what free will choice you made from the beginning of time.
If you made a free will choice yesterday and I know about it today, does that mean you did not make a free will choice. It is the same with God, but God today, can send that information back to himself at the beginning of time. I am not the originator of this idea, since science have been looking into the possibility of using wormholes to do the same thing, if wormholes exist.
No, you are not.
What you have described is a system that is predetermined in all aspects. And if predetermined (including all of our thoughts, words, deeds, choices) before we exist, we are not involved in the determination. That's the definition of "loss of free-will".
Answer the question above: Tell me why: if I lived a light year away from you and knew for certain a choice you made tomorrow, that would keep your choice from being your free will choice?
If I am a light year away from you, so I can do nothing about your choices tomorrow, it is worthless information. God knowing the information and not doing anything with it, would also make it worthless. Since God did the very best thing the first time, means He does not need to do anything with the information. God can also use the information to help you without changing the future since that information is now history for you also.
No, not assumptions. There are things He would KNOW (Satan's plans, at least to some degree, Satan's character, Satan's past activities, Satan's cognitive abilities, Satan's imagination, and the amount of corruption of Satan's mental capacity since his fall; Peter's character, zeal, the basis of Peter's bravado, and probably Peter's breaking points; His own plans to get the authorities to let the disciples go free, the type of punishment He would undergo, etc, etc.). And based on those things, He can reasonably predict Peter's behavior in the upcoming scenario.
Your own words call it a “prediction”, so to be above misleading (lying) information about Jesus knowledge of the future Jesus should state it as being contingent.
So you are saying that if the text doesn't say "if", then Jer 18 doesn't apply? You need to be consistent. With that statement you've just said that Nineveh's destruction was not contingent. But it was. That Hezekiah's death was not contingent, but it was.
WOW, you need to understand one thing. God states
His future action without a contingency, but
His future action
are contingent on what the people do, Jermiah 18,
BUT when God states
your future actions then those action are not contingent and happen exactly as God stated.
God knows what happened in the future.
God's actions are contingent on the nations' actions. If God already knows the nations' actions (whether they repent or not), then there's no reason for God to change His actions. Peter's prophecy was about his own actions without any kind of threat of destruction. Jeremiah 18 doesn't apply with regard to God's actions, because no actions of God are provided. But it DOES apply in that the nations or individuals (to extrapolate to Peter) CAN repent, CAN change their minds. This is not possible if the nations' and individuals' actions are all known from eternity, unless they are spurred to do it by God deceiving them.
What idea are you trying to convey with: If God already knows the nations' actions (whether they repent or not), then there's no reason for God to change His actions.? God is never changing His actions, so what are you saying?
Peter is not going to change His action, but when Peter sees Christ and hears the roaster, he will remember what Jesus did say and hopefully repent. If Jesus had not provided Peter with the information about him denying Christ, he might have looked at Christ heard the roast and thought he was doing great to be close to Christ at this time and nothing about what he had just done. Peter was already sinning prior to the denials and not repenting early on just means he (like all of us) will keep spiraling down doing worse and worse sins. Christ is not trying to keep Peter from sinning, but to get him to reach his low point he needs to repent.
Jer 18 did not exist when Jonah went to Nineveh. But even without Jer 18, we know from the Ninevites' experience that God is willing to forgive a nation if they repent. In other words, the book of Jonah gives an example of God's dealing with nations, while Jer 18 gives the policy.
Think about it: Jerimiah 18 is not telling us of a change in the way God behaves, but one of the ways God has always behaved. We learn it from Jerimiah 18, but the Patriarchs had Godly knowledge past down verbally without scripture, so they would have known this and even the prophets (we do not know about) that went to Nineveh before Noah could have pasted it on to Nineveh (Jonah seemed o knew this truism about God).
But if God tells someone that they will be destroyed, period, it implies that they have a chance, by repenting, not to be destroyed. Peter had a chance not to be humbled by his infidelity, if he first humbled himself, in which case the additional humility was not needed. And Christ would have, in my opinion, welcomed that change in Peter and the scenario would not have needed to play out.
Again, prophecy concerning God’s actions are totally different for prophecy about human actions.
It doesn't change the fact that God is lying if He knows the future perfectly, yet tells something different from the future as perfectly known future events.
WOW again, God is not lying and cannot lie. God must make known the Truism of Jer. 18, to people He is prophesying to. Ninevah seems to have know the truism, since they immediately worked hard repenting and Jonah seems to have know the truism since He was worried God would not destroy Nineveh, like Jonah wanted.
If it was known by everyone, then Jer 18 wasn't necessary, which is what I proposed above anyway.
The Old Testament was written as we have it today, though to be around 500BC, people up till then memorized the stories, told each other the stories or had direct prophecy. Just because they did not have a written OT does not mean they did not know what God said.
God's future actions can change, according to Jer 18. If they are fully known by God, and then they change, then they weren't fully known by God.
WOW,
God’s future actions will not change, but what is prophesied about God’s future actions may not come to fruition, if the people change, that is what is being taught in Jer.18. A warning is needed to be given to Ninevah, so God has Jonah give the warning, but it cannot be stated as contingent, since God knows He will not destroy them, so how can it be done?
That statement is self-contradictory. If the choices we will make were written long ago, before we existed, then we were not the ones making the choices. It amazes me that you have to contort logic so in order to get your system to work.
I know this is not easy, being stuck in time, to imagine being outside of time.
It is not “self-contradictory”, a word Hammster used often to cut the conversation off.
How is it any more illogical to consider, God is omnipresent throughout time, as it is to believe God is omnipresent?
Do you believe time is relative, since every test in the last 100 years has shown time to be relative?
Logical smart scientist are working hard right now to develop wormholes in the time/space continuum, which could result in at least information traveling from the future, but that would not mean free will choice ceased to exist.
Right. Which you are saying God has to know ahead of time, before the man's previous actions occur.
NO, I did not say that. God does not have to know anything about the future to change His behavior, but He would have to state the contingent future as being contingent.
Ok, I get what you are saying, but you have no idea what would have happened if Hezekiah had died in the middle of the Assyrian invasion. So your assertion has no grounds.
I do not know, but God could control that.
Yes, that's my point--you can't know what would have happened purely based on what did happen.
I cannot say, but I’m not God.
Was it bad? God accepted it. I don't think it is wrong to remind God of the things we have done for Him.
What have you “done for Him”? If I do everything perfectly right from now until I die, I will have done the very minimum, even though it is the maximum I could do. We all fall short and need forgiveness.
Never approach God thinking He owes you something.
It wasn't against God's desire. God was not hard pressed to maintain the current life-time plans He had for Hezekiah, but was more than willing to change at a moment's notice. Isaiah had not even made it out of the courtyard after delivering the first message before God told him to go back in and deliver the opposite message.
I’ll stick to what I said.
Not seeing it, you have no idea how good or bad it would be. But losing a king during a siege is almost always disheartening to a people.
In the middle of tragedies makes God’s help all the more spectacular.
It is factual that there is a series of fictional stories called "Star Wars". God knows about those things, since they are written/acted out.
Can God know about the free will choices of a person in the Star Wars movies? Why or why not?
God knows the choice a person made in the future and wrote it down to be played out by a fictional character.
