Could non humans die before Adam sinned?

[Marc15]

I'm wondering if animals could die before Adam sinned? Did Adam's sin effect all living things or just humans?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I'm wondering if animals could die before Adam sinned? Did Adam's sin effect all living things or just humans?

Yes, but they were not corrupted and did not suffer, and there was no need to reproduce like mad to replace themselves to keep the kind alive on the face of the earth, because there was no sin.
Adam died in spirit, as a son of God, and lost his covering of Glory as a son of God, and got cast down from Eden to the earth. Corruption also entered him, and he died physically, after nearly a thousand years. In the millennial reign, which is when the earth is restored to the state it was in at the beginning of creation, before Adam fell, there will be animal flesh eaten, and animal sacrifice in the temple, but no corruption on earth at all.
Read the Book of Jasher. Abel kept sheep, Cain ate Abel's sheep.
Jasher Chapter 1 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887

14

And the boys grew up and their father gave them a possession in the land; and Cain was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper of sheep.
15

And it was at the expiration of a few years, that they brought an approximating offering to the Lord, and Cain brought from the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought from the firstlings of his flock from the fat thereof, and God turned and inclined to Abel and his offering, and a fire came down from the Lord from heaven and consumed it.
16

And unto Cain and his offering the Lord did not turn, and he did not incline to it, for he had brought from the inferior fruit of the ground before the Lord, and Cain was jealous against his brother Abel on account of this, and he sought a pretext to slay him.
17

And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account.
18

And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land?
19

And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool?
20

And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said?
21

And Cain said to his brother Abel, Surely if I slay thee this day, who will require thy blood from me?
22

And Abel answered Cain, saying, Surely God who has made us in the earth, he will avenge my cause, and he will require my blood from thee shouldst thou slay me, for the Lord is the judge and arbiter, and it is he who will requite man according to his evil, and the wicked man according to the wickedness that he may do upon earth.
23

And now, if thou shouldst slay me here, surely God knoweth thy secret views, and will judge thee for the evil which thou didst declare to do unto me this day.
24

And when Cain heard the words which Abel his brother had spoken, behold the anger of Cain was kindled against his brother Abel for declaring this thing.
25

And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument, with which he suddenly smote his brother and he slew him, and Cain spilt the blood of his brother Abel upon the earth, and the blood of Abel streamed upon the earth before the flock.
26

And after this Cain repented having slain his brother, and he was sadly grieved, and he wept over him and it vexed him exceedingly.
27

And Cain rose up and dug a hole in the field, wherein he put his brother's body, and he turned the dust over it.
28

And the Lord knew what Cain had done to his brother, and the Lord appeared to Cain and said unto him, Where is Abel thy brother that was with thee?
29

And Cain dissembled, and said, I do not know, am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said unto him, What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground where thou hast slain him.
30

For thou hast slain thy brother and hast dissembled before me, and didst imagine in thy heart that I saw thee not, nor knew all thy actions.
31

But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.
32

And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death.
33

And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him.
34

And Cain knew his wife in those days, and she conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Enoch, saying, In that time the Lord began to give him rest and quiet in the earth.

 

[Calypsis4]

No. There was no death before Adam, period and no one on earth can give evidence that such a thing existed on God's perfect world before the rebellion of man before Adam's sin.

Those who differ have a three-fold difficulty: (1) proving there was indeed death before Adam (who Moses said was the first created man) and (2) pin-pointing the origin (date) of death in the distant past. And (3) trying to explain WHY death even came into the world apart from human sin as the reason.

They can do none of these things. They can only assume things.

The Lord created the world in six days just like Moses said He did
in Genesis and in the Ten Commandments.​

 

[Mallon]

According to the Bible, there must have been death before the Fall. Otherwise, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life?

 

[Calypsis4]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

"...and there shall be no more death..." Rev. 21:4

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Rev. 22:2

Hmm, why would anyone need the Tree of Life in heaven when there is no death?

Think they will ever catch on?

 

[Mallon]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

"...and there shall be no more death..." Rev. 21:4

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Rev. 22:2

Hmm, why would anyone need the Tree of Life in heaven when there is no death?

Think they will ever catch on?

Maybe there is no death in heaven BECAUSE the Tree of Life is there.

What's the Tree of Life for, C4?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This thread is about death of animals before the fall.
In the millennial reign, no human beings on earth in their un-regenerated flesh bodies will die, unless they are sinners, and they will die at age 100 -and they will only then be part of the resurrection of the damned, which comes at the end of the thousand year reign.
There will be no corruption, but animals will be slain and eaten, and they will be eaten by other animals, except on God's holy Mount in Jerusalem. This is so because the earth will be restored to that which it was made to be, before the fall, and the inhabitants of it will eat of the Tree of Life, in the millennial reign, even though they will not yet have their translated bodies.
They will be as Adam was, in the beginning, and so will the earth be.

 

[Calypsis4]

Eternal life...is through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Eternal life...is through faith in Jesus Christ.

Why was the Tree of Life in the Garden, and why is the Tree of Life in the restored earth, for the millennium, and why is the Tree of Life in the New Jerusalem?
And eternal death is not absence of existence, but absence of the indwelling Living Spirit and the Glory.

 

[Mallon]

Eternal life...is through faith in Jesus Christ.

You forgot to answer the question.

 

[jeffweeder]

I'm wondering if animals could die before Adam sinned? Did Adam's sin effect all living things or just humans?

God said everthing was good when he made it alive.
I dont see anything good about death when my pets die......, i hate it.

 

[jeffweeder]

According to the Bible, there must have been death before the Fall. Otherwise, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life?

The tree of life was all about feeding on God and living forever in our Good state.
Once man fell he was cut off from living forever in his fallen state, and this was a wise move by our Lord God.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm wondering if animals could die before Adam sinned? Did Adam's sin effect all living things or just humans?

In order to make this question meaningful, we need to define "death". Death is an identify. It will be taken away at the end and there will be no death after that. As a result, death also has a beginning. There were no death before the death was allowed to exist.

With that definition, the question is then: when did the death start, rather than what would die or not die.

Why would Adam die? Because he sinned. Animals do not sin (how wonderful). So even they physically "dead" (for the lack of a better word), they are not dead, because the definition of death does not apply to them.

We have to understand the death from God's point of view, not from man's point of view.

 

[Mallon]

The tree of life was all about feeding on God and living forever in our Good state.
Once man fell he was cut off from living forever in his fallen state, and this was a wise move by our Lord God.

Did the Tree of Life prevent one from dying physically?

 

[Calypsis4]

In order to make this question meaningful, we need to define "death". Death is an identify. It will be taken away at the end and there will be no death after that. As a result, death also has a beginning. There were no death before the death was allowed to exist.

With that definition, the question is then: when did the death start, rather than what would die or not die.

Why would Adam die? Because he sinned. Animals do not sin (how wonderful). So even they physically "dead" (for the lack of a better word), they are not dead, because the definition of death does not apply to them.

We have to understand the death from God's point of view, not from man's point of view.

And not for your point of view.

"And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man" Genesis 7:21

Did all the animals outside the ark die during the flood? Yes.

Did they deserve that death? No.

Did they die because of man's sin: Yes.

Did they deserve it? No.

The same principle holds true for man's sin after the creation. IT is not a matter of whether or not animals sin or deserve to die..it is a matter of God's ultimate purpose for the world to begin with. They are subject to his decree and His decree is that man's sin ruined all.

That is a truth that He wanted manifest throughout His creation. Something perfect was ruined by human sin and rebellion to God.

 

[Calypsis4]

Why was the Tree of Life in the Garden, and why is the Tree of Life in the restored earth, for the millennium, and why is the Tree of Life in the New Jerusalem?
And eternal death is not absence of existence, but absence of the indwelling Living Spirit and the Glory.

For a yet unrevealed reason that will be known to us in eternity. It belongs to Him who is a revealer of secrets.

Death is the absence of God...to one degree (Genesis 2:17) or another (Revelation 20:14).

Adam's sin and God's judgment that day saw the origin of death. But the Hebrew interpretation is : "thou shalt surely...: Heb. dying thou shalt die" (Family Bible Notes). Adam BEGAN to die the day he ate the fruit (for he was divided from God's Spirit that day) and eventually he did eventually succumb physically because of it. The disease of sin slowly ravaged his body like cancer and he eventually expired.

 

[keyarch]

I'm wondering if animals could die before Adam sinned? Did Adam's sin effect all living things or just humans?

Based on my study of the subject, both from biblical text and logic, I have concluded that animals could die before Adam sinned. I have addressed this issue specifically in the following paper:
http://www.genesistruth.org/documents/The_Curse.pdf

 

[mark kennedy]

Its hard to say if they could have died but it seems unlikely that they would have. I don't know how long it took for Satan to tempt Adam and Eve but it's one of those things that the Scriptures are pretty much silent about.

My honest answer would have to be...maybe...

 

[Calypsis4]

Its hard to say if they could have died but it seems unlikely that they would have. I don't know how long it took for Satan to tempt Adam and Eve but it's one of those things that the Scriptures are pretty much silent about.

My honest answer would have to be...maybe...

Why is there any debate about this matter at all?

23 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

But the day will come when there will be no more death because there will be no more curse.

"...there shall be no more death" Rev. 21:4

"...And there shall be no more curse." Rev. 22:3

 

[juvenissun]

Why is there any debate about this matter at all?

23 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

But the day will come when there will be no more death because there will be no more curse.

"...there shall be no more death" Rev. 21:4

"...And there shall be no more curse." Rev. 22:3

Would people eat animal during the Millennium? (yes)

In Rev 21 and 22 as you quoted, does it include animals? (no)