Could G-d have evolved... while Adam and Eve been created?

[DennisTate]

I suspect that this could be termed Theistic Evolutionary Theory.

Many Theists may find this idea extremely annoying..... because the idea of G-d learning and getting better at creation over infinite time in the past....... goes against G-d.... always knowing everything......... which is necessary to be defined as "G-d?"

The Fundamental Force

"The prevalent and prevailing consensus points to four fundamental forces
electromagnetism, gravitation, as well as strong and weak nuclear forces but I
aver that there is only one force: energetic matter. The energetic matter
creates wave formations are expressed exclusively by the two principle behaviors
(forces) of pushing and pulling." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)

The Fundamental Force

"The swirling and spinning motion creates circular formations. To finish
constructing the wave, the energetic matter must complete two semi-circular rounds. The figures are executed perpendicular to each other, and their energetic paths are in a state of superposition. The closed formation allows the energetic matter to move along closed energetic paths and maintain its energetic matter. It creates two internal swirls (vortices), which are neither identical nor symmetrical. In other words, the same type of energetic matter that moves along a common path that is shared by both swirls within a particular wave formation. Nevertheless, the swirls do not contain equal amounts of energy even in units with the same amount of space." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)

Wave Theory and Gender: Why Sex

"Pulling and gravitation, which resemble basic feminine traits, are the dominant properties of the magnetic loop. Consequently, magnetic loops have a capacity for storing energy and act to maintain the structural integrity of the entire wave formation. The electronic/energetic loop consists of expanding properties that disperse energetic matter that "disappears" into space. This is synonymous with masculine characteristics." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)

 

[Inkfingers]

God learning would imply that God is incomplete, which He is not.

 

[DennisTate]

John 5:17 "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

G-d did not just fly into a flurry of activity at the time of the creation of the earth... .but instead has been creating from infinite time in the past.

I believe that long before Adam and Eve fell...... Covering Cherub Lucifer led a revolt in heaven. This is a partial explanation for a possible Old Earth... and Gap Theory.

NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.


Dr. Richard Eby:
......

"Jesus, tell me about this wondrous music all about me. Who is the composer? How is it made? From whence does it come? It is gorgeous!"

I was not disappointed when he began his answer by again asking me:
"Didn't you read my book? Repeatedly it exhorts my children to praise me with music from strings, trumpets, timbrels and voices. It is and was the prime communication of worship and praise and thanksgiving. Since I am the Creator, I am the composer of heaven's music which you are hearing."

Music became the resulting harmony from all of our creations, both of matter and energy. All resonated in unison with us. The elementary form was of and from and in ourselves. I might explain it as a triad of sub-electronic energy particles with and around which We constructed everything in our universe. The wave-forms we called light; whereas the material-forms we called dust of the Earth and water and air. Out of these, and into these, we created animals and birds and fishes and vegetable life to support them. Over these we created a mankind to supervise them as our appointed custodians made in our special image to act for us on Earth!"

Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.
"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed "adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony "sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!" (Dr. Richard Eby, near-death.com)

 

[DennisTate]

God learning would imply that God is incomplete, which He is not.

I personally feel that a G-d who is capable of creating genuinely new time lines........... new applications of Ezekiel 37..... .is more complete by my definition of that word that a G-d who is limited to merely one time line or example of Ezekiel chapter 37!

Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.

 

[com7fy8]

God has always existed. And He has always been the same in spiritual quality and nature, of love > "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16).

If He could change, He has already had all eternity to change in some direction. It would already have been done, by now, I consider

Jesus is all who God is, in human form.

And He is stable, in almighty power which can not wear out or burn out or be hurt, and Jesus in us shares this with us. This is so more important than learning or what you know . . . but how God is and in us He is able to make us also stable in His own love, so we don't get wasted and frustrated and hurt and unforgiving.

 

[DennisTate]

So what was G-d doing previous to the creation of Covering Cherub Lucifer....and his eventual revolt?

Planning, engineering and orchestrating the number of Big Bang type events.......(Cyclic Model of the Universe).... that occurred up until that time would be my guess.

Former Atheist Mellen Benedict, near-death .com:

At this point of my near-death experience, I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond Infinity. I was in the Void.



I was in pre creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time / the First Word/the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness. When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and
without end. That’s a mind-expanding thought, isn’t it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event that created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

What Mellen Benedict was shown fits surprisingly well with chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe which is entitled The Anthropic Principle. (The difference is that Dr. Hawking explains an Agnostic or Atheistic version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe whereas Mellen Benedict.......... certainly believes in a Creator.

 

[DennisTate]

God has always existed. And He has always been the same in spiritual quality and nature, of love > "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16).

If He could change, He has already had all eternity to change in some direction. It would already have been done, by now, I consider

Jesus is all who God is, in human form.

And He is stable, in almighty power which can not wear out or burn out or be hurt, and Jesus in us shares this with us. This is so more important than learning or what you know . . . but how God is and in us He is able to make us also stable in His own love, so we don't get wasted and frustrated and hurt and unforgiving.

Well said.......
one of the reasons why I suspect that Covering Cherub Lucifer decided on a rebellion...... is that he was so young.... and so immature....... and had invested so little in what existed by then........ and did not have anything like the emotional maturity that comes with having lived from infinite time in the past.


Could God be the most emotional being in the universe????

 

[SkyWriting]

So what was G-d doing previous to the creation of Covering Cherub Lucifer....and his eventual revolt?

Planning, engineering and orchestrating the number of Big Bang type events.......(Cyclic Model of the Universe).... that occurred up until that time would be my guess.

Former Atheist Mellen Benedict, near-death .com:


What Mellen Benedict was shown fits surprisingly well with chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe which is entitled The Anthropic Principle. (The difference is that Dr. Hawking explains an Agnostic or Atheistic version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe whereas Mellen Benedict.......... certainly believes in a Creator.

"Time" is a delay of our deserved judgment of death.
God has no intersection with "time".

 

[DennisTate]

God has no intersection with "time".

Now I believe that time......
is an invention........ that was created with an objective in mind..........

The progression of souls of men.... and angels..... to a more loving, thankful..... and joyful and harmonious state of being............

I think that time.....
can be compared with a bicycle, car, truck, ship or jet...... it moves us from point A to point B.... but the movement is emotional, spiritual, mental......... rather than merely a weight being moved..........


One seventh of time was made for man....... so perhaps all seven sevenths of time were made for us as well.......

Mark 2:27

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 

[HereIStand]

Thomas Aquinas addressed this.

SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The immutability of God (Prima Pars, Q. 9)

On the contrary, It is written, "I am the Lord, and I change not" (Malachi 3:6).

I answer that, From what precedes, it is shown that God is altogether immutable.

First, because it was shown above that there is some first being, whom we call God; and that this first being must be pure act, without the admixture of any potentiality, for the reason that, absolutely, potentiality is posterior to act. Now everything which is in any way changed, is in some way in potentiality. Hence it is evident that it is impossible for God to be in any way changeable.

Secondly, because everything which is moved, remains as it was in part, and passes away in part; as what is moved from whiteness to blackness, remains the same as to substance; thus in everything which is moved, there is some kind of composition to be found. But it has been shown above (I:3:7) that in God there is no composition, for He is altogether simple. Hence it is manifest that God cannot be moved.

Thirdly, because everything which is moved acquires something by its movement, and attains to what it had not attained previously. But since God is infinite, comprehending in Himself all the plenitude of perfection of all being, He cannot acquire anything new, nor extend Himself to anything whereto He was not extended previously. Hence movement in no way belongs to Him. So, some of the ancients, constrained, as it were, by the truth, decided that the first principle was immovable.

 

[DennisTate]

Thomas Aquinas addressed this.

SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The immutability of God (Prima Pars, Q. 9)

On the contrary, It is written, "I am the Lord, and I change not" (Malachi 3:6).

I answer that, From what precedes, it is shown that God is altogether immutable.

First, because it was shown above that there is some first being, whom we call God; and that this first being must be pure act, without the admixture of any potentiality, for the reason that, absolutely, potentiality is posterior to act. Now everything which is in any way changed, is in some way in potentiality. Hence it is evident that it is impossible for God to be in any way changeable.

Secondly, because everything which is moved, remains as it was in part, and passes away in part; as what is moved from whiteness to blackness, remains the same as to substance; thus in everything which is moved, there is some kind of composition to be found. But it has been shown above (I:3:7) that in God there is no composition, for He is altogether simple. Hence it is manifest that God cannot be moved.

Thirdly, because everything which is moved acquires something by its movement, and attains to what it had not attained previously. But since God is infinite, comprehending in Himself all the plenitude of perfection of all being, He cannot acquire anything new, nor extend Himself to anything whereto He was not extended previously. Hence movement in no way belongs to Him. So, some of the ancients, constrained, as it were, by the truth, decided that the first principle was immovable.

A very helpful post.........
very helpful indeed........
but there is a reason why the wrath of G-d could not be considered perfectly.... .until the latter days..... when knowledge is increased and many people run to and fro......


Jeremiah 23:20

"The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly."


Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Daniel Chapter 12
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time appointed: many shall pass over, and knowledge shall be manifold.

or.....

Dan 12:4

¶
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[SkyWriting]

Now I believe that time......
is an invention........ that was created with an objective in mind..........

The progression of souls of men.... and angels..... to a more loving, thankful..... and joyful and harmonious state of being............

I think that time.....
can be compared with a bicycle, car, truck, ship or jet...... it moves us from point A to point B.... but the movement is emotional, spiritual, mental......... rather than merely a weight being moved..........


One seventh of time was made for man....... so perhaps all seven sevenths of time were made for us as well.......

Mark 2:27

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Oh there are limitless benefits for sinners as they walk to the cashier to receive their wages for all their fine deeds. But the wages of sin is death. We will get that paycheck and it will be cashed out. Who will pay that price. Did we do enough....or did God pay the debt Himself? It's all in Belief and Faith.

 

[Ken Rank]

"I am the same yesterday, today, and forever." That is pretty air tight and there are about 30-40 other verses that say the same thing like, "I am God, I change not!" So, no, I don't subscribe to an evolving God. It is just man trying to recreate God in whatever image he desires.

 

[DennisTate]

Oh there are limitless benefits for sinners as they walk to the cashier to receive their wages for all their fine deeds. But the wages of sin is death. We will get that paycheck and it will be cashed out. Who will pay that price. Did we do enough....or did God pay the debt Himself? It's all in Belief and Faith.

True....... we did not do enough.......
we all fell far, far, far, far , far short of how we should have lived...... and thought...... and felt emotionally........ and G-d paid the debt Himself..............

 

[DennisTate]

"I am the same yesterday, today, and forever." That is pretty air tight and there are about 30-40 other verses that say the same thing like, "I am God, I change not!" So, no, I don't subscribe to an evolving God. It is just man trying to recreate God in whatever image he desires.

True.... but the English language is a LEGALISTIC language.... that was affected by laws and legislation........ over centuries... and millennia... .. English is very useful for the composition of seemingly loophole free sentences BUT......... the result can be words.... that tend to nail down............ the people who are too dogmatic in their belief that those words can only be understood one way.

For example....the word translated 'forever" from Hebrew...... has a connotation of......"until the end of conditions last"....... which can give a very different meaning to the scriptures with the English word forever... in them......

 

[DennisTate]

"I am the same yesterday, today, and forever." That is pretty air tight and there are about 30-40 other verses that say the same thing like, "I am God, I change not!" So, no, I don't subscribe to an evolving God. It is just man trying to recreate God in whatever image he desires.

Let's go at this from another angle..........
Is G-d sufficiently powerful to set up a situation where G-d..... surprises Himself?????

We might tend to think..... no....... G-d cannot be surprised because G-d knows all.............. and has all power....... but what if G-d WANTED a surprise?????


Genesis 22:12

¶
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only sonfrom me."

Could G-d have gotten to know Abraham better...... .after Abraham...... made a certain choice / decision?????

 

[Darwin's Myth]

John 5:17 "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

G-d did not just fly into a flurry of activity at the time of the creation of the earth... .but instead has been creating from infinite time in the past.

I believe that long before Adam and Eve fell...... Covering Cherub Lucifer led a revolt in heaven. This is a partial explanation for a possible Old Earth... and Gap Theory.

NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.


Dr. Richard Eby:
......

No idea how long before Adam and Eve sinned that Lucifer actually revolted. Lucifer might have revolted a week before Creation Week. As for God the Father and Jesus working... answering prayer is working... convicting hearts is working. Working does not necessarily mean, creating things, although, I have no doubt in God's ability to keep creating new and exciting things/creatures.

God mentioned in Job that He created the Behemoth and Leviathan with man (that would be on the 6th day of creation). The descriptions for the Behemoth and Leviathan are likely those of dinosaurs... perhaps, what are called the Brachiosaurus (or Diplodocus) and Plesiosaurus today. We don't need the Gap Theory to explain the dinosaurs or the fossils. And what destroyed them, or created the formation of fossils. The Genesis Flood, not a meteor, or millions/billions of years.

 

[Darwin's Myth]

Let's go at this from another angle..........
Is G-d sufficiently powerful to set up a situation where G-d..... surprises Himself?????

We might tend to think..... no....... G-d cannot be surprised because G-d knows all.............. and has all power....... but what if G-d WANTED a surprise?????


Genesis 22:12

¶
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only sonfrom me."

Could G-d have gotten to know Abraham better...... .after Abraham...... made a certain choice / decision?????

The true reaction of God can be hidden when,"I know that thou fearest God..." was allegedly said, because of the wrong interpretation or not translating with better words. I can look at that sentence as being replaced with,"Now I know that thou fearest God because I couldn't credit you with fearing God until you actually did the action". That would fit with the fact that God knows everything. He just can't give credit until an action happens.

 

[Jjmcubbin]

I suspect that this could be termed Theistic Evolutionary Theory.

Many Theists may find this idea extremely annoying..... because the idea of G-d learning and getting better at creation over infinite time in the past....... goes against G-d.... always knowing everything......... which is necessary to be defined as "G-d?"

The Fundamental Force





The Fundamental Force




Wave Theory and Gender: Why Sex

Hahahah
Please illustrate how GMm/r^2 represents a woman.
Also, I use salt shakers, they spray salt. Are they male?

 

[DennisTate]

No idea how long before Adam and Eve sinned that Lucifer actually revolted. Lucifer might have revolted a week before Creation Week. As for God the Father and Jesus working... answering prayer is working... convicting hearts is working. Working does not necessarily mean, creating things, although, I have no doubt in God's ability to keep creating new and exciting things/creatures.

God mentioned in Job that He created the Behemoth and Leviathan with man (that would be on the 6th day of creation). The descriptions for the Behemoth and Leviathan are likely those of dinosaurs... perhaps, what are called the Brachiosaurus (or Diplodocus) and Plesiosaurus today. We don't need the Gap Theory to explain the dinosaurs or the fossils. And what destroyed them, or created the formation of fossils? The Genesis Flood, not a meteor, or millions/billions of years.

I absolutely agree that we don't necessarily need a Gap Theory....... but I still feel more comfortable with it than being without it...... (but I am kind of biased because I was taught the Gap Theory while I was still a teenager).

I have to admit that this video.... that my daughter sent to me a few weeks ago really impressed me! I would eventually love to have it proven to me that the Gap Theory is wrong....... but I am not able to see how just yet...... but here is some evidence that sure helped.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155731997529669