Why Would Any Woman Be A Christian? Answering Atheists

Could the Holy Spirit be God the Mother?

  • Yes...

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • No...

    Votes: 6 54.5%
  • I am not sure but this is an intriguing idea....

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Total voters
    11

DennisTate

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Daniel does a great job of answering Atheists regarding the context of the situation faced by the Apostle Paul when he wrote:
1Titus 2:11, 12
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."


Why Would Any Woman Be A Christian? Answering Atheists

....
But I would like to tackle this topic from another angle......
Theistic Evolutionary Theory.....

Theistic Evolutionary Theory, could our Creator have evolved/learned?


Wave Theory and Gender: Why Sex



"Pulling and gravitation, which resemble basic feminine traits, are the dominant properties of the magnetic loop. Consequently, magnetic loops have a capacity for storing energy and act to maintain the structural integrity of the entire wave formation. The electronic/energetic loop consists of expanding properties that disperse energetic matter that "disappears" into space. This is synonymous with masculine characteristics." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)
 

DennisTate

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If I was a woman, I'd just say, "Because God called me" and leave it at that.

Good answer........
many women do indeed take pretty much that approach..... and there is
evidence that it is paying off extremely well.

The Hordes of Hell are Marching

...I looked at the thrones. I looked at those who were now seated. I could recognize some of the great heroes of the faith, but most of those seated I knew had not even been well known on earth. Many I knew had been missionaries who had expended their lives in obscurity. They had never cared to be remember on earth, but only to Him. I was a bit surprised to see some who had been wealthy, or rulers who had been faithful with what they had been given. However, it seemed that faithful, praying women and mothers occupied more thrones than any other single group." (Rick Joyner)
(near bottom of page):
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Let's be honest. There are things in Scripture that give us all reasons to "not follow God" if we want to take the bait. There are plenty of "hard words" for every ear to find one they don't like. But, if we (men and women of all races) believe that the God of the Bible is truly God--that is He is sovereign and in the end will remain with who He allows to remain with Him--then whether we like everything we hear doesn't matter. We either choose Him or we don't. People may feel mistreated here in this world, but if the promises of Scripture are true, here is the promise for all (male or female of any race) who are found in heaven: "no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.... He (male or female of any race) that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son. (Rev 21:4,7)

So, if I was mistreated in this world, why on earth would I want to miss out on something like that, simply because Jesus referred to me as a "dog" in the Bible? (Matt 15:26) or appears to be calling me satan to my face? (Matt 16:23) or tells me to go and sin no more? (John 8:11) Or tells me I have to eat His body and drink His blood? (John 6:53-4) Jesus certainly didn't take Dale Carnegie's course on "how to win friends and influence people." I guess that wasn't what His coming was all about.
 
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DennisTate

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Let's be honest. There are things in Scripture that give us all reasons to "not follow God" if we want to take the bait. There are plenty of "hard words" for every ear to find one they don't like. But, if we (men and women of all races) believe that the God of the Bible is truly God--that is He is sovereign and in the end will remain with who He allows to remain with Him--then whether we like everything we hear doesn't matter. We either choose Him or we don't. People may feel mistreated here in this world, but if the promises of Scripture are true, here is the promise for all (male or female of any race) who are found in heaven: "no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.... He (male or female of any race) that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son. (Rev 21:4,7)

So, if I was mistreated in this world, why on earth would I want to miss out on something like that, simply because Jesus referred to me as a "dog" in the Bible? (Matt 15:26) or appears to be calling me satan to my face? (Matt 16:23) or tells me to go and sin no more? (John 8:11) Or tells me I have to eat His body and drink His blood? (John 6:53-4) Jesus certainly didn't take Dale Carnegie's course on "how to win friends and influence people." I guess that wasn't what His coming was all about.

Extremely well said Johnny!

Yes..... I personally believe that the time is coming when every tear will be wiped away from every eye....... and our willingness to speak and tell others openly and truthfully about our own errors and sins of the past.......
takes our sins of the past.... and makes them useful to inspiring others to also decide to follow Messiah Yeshua / Jesus.

Here is an example of a testimony..... supposedly of a shy Christian former friend of Pastor Rick Joyner..... that I take very very seriously..... (but I can see why others would be skeptical).

You and I are free to take this testimony..... publish it a copy and paste it all over the place.... and this formerly shy man,....... could well find himself coming closer and closer and closer and closer to the throne..... as what he told to Pastor Rick inspires and uplifts many more people to come closer to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.



The Hordes of Hell are Marching

Pastor Rick Joyner....."I then noticed someone I had known on earth. He had been a faithful believer, but I did not think he had done anything of significance. He was so physically unattractive on earth that it had made him shy. Here he had the same features, but was somehow more handsome than any person I had known on earth. He stepped up to me with an assurance and dignity that I had never seen in him, or anyone, before.

"Heaven is much greater than we could have dreamed while on earth," he began. "This room is but the threshold of realms of glory that are far beyond the ability we had to comprehend. It is also true that the second death is much more terrible than we understood. Neither heaven or hell are like we thought they were. If I had known on earth what I know here I would not have lived the way that I did. You are blessed with a great grace to have come here before you have died." he said while looking at my garments.

I then looked at myself. I still had the old mantle of humility on, with the armor under it. I felt both foul and crude standing before those who were so regal and beautiful. I began to think that I was in serious trouble if I was going to appear before the Lord like this. Like the eagles, my old acquaintance could understand my thoughts, and he replied to them:

"Those who come here wearing that mantle have nothing to fear. That mantle is the highest rank of honor, and it is why they all bowed to you while you passed."

"I did not notice anyone bowing to me," I replied, a bit disconcerted.

"It is not improper," he continued. "Here we show each other the respect that is due. Even the angles serve us here, but only our God and His Christ are worshiped."

I was still ashamed. I had to retrain myself to keep from bowing to these glorious ones, while at the same time wanting to hide myself because I looked so bad. Then I began lamenting the fact that my thoughts here were just as foolish here as they were one earth, and here everyone knew them! I felt both stained and stupid standing before these who were so awesome and pure. Again my old acquaintance responded to these thoughts.

"We have our incorruptible bodies now, and you do not. Our minds are no longer hindered by sin. We are therefore able to comprehend many times what even the greatest earthly mind can fathom, and we will spend eternity growing in our ability to understand. This is so that we can know the Father, and understand the glory of His creation. On earth you cannot even begin to understand what the least of these here know, and we are the least of those here."

"How could you be the least?" I asked with disbelief.

"There is an aristocracy here. The rewards for our earthly lives are the eternal positions that we have here. This great multitude here are those whom the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives on earth."

I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one could lie in that place.

"The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I protested.

"And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond any grief possible on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be understood by those who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified when it is revealed next to the glory of the One we failed. You are standing now among the lowest rank in heaven. There is no greater fools than the ones who know the great salvation of God, but then go on living for themselves. To come here and learn the reality of that folly is a grief beyond what an earthly soul can experience. We are those who suffered this outer darkness because of this greatest of follies."

I was still incredulous. "But you are more glorious and full of more joy and peace than I even imagined, even for those in heaven. I do not feel any remorse in you, and yet I know that here you cannot lie. This does not make sense to me."

Looking me straight in the eyes, he continued, "The Lord also loves us with a love greater than you can yet understand. Before His judgment seat I tasted the greatest darkness of soul and remorse that can be experienced. Though here we do not measure time as you do, it seemed to last for as long as my life on earth had lasted. All of my sins and follies which I had not repented of passed before me, and before all who are here. The grief of this you cannot understand until you have experienced it. I felt that I was in the deepest dungeon of hell, even as I stood before the Lord. He was resolute until my life had been completely reviewed. When I said I was sorry and asked for the mercy of His cross, He wiped away my tears and took away the great darkness. He looked at me with a love that was beyond anything that you can now understand. He gave me this robe. I no longer feel the darkness or bitterness that I knew as I stood before Him, but I remember it. Only here can you remember such things without continuing to feel the pain. A moment in the lowest part of heaven is much greater than a thousand years of the highest life on earth. Now my mourning at my folly has been turned into joy, and I know that I will know joy forever, even if I am in the lowest place in heaven."

I began to think again of the treasures of salvation. Somehow I knew that all that this man had told me was revealed by those treasures. Every step I had taken up the mountain, or into it, had revealed that His ways are both more fearful and more wonderful than I had known before.

Looking at me intently, my former acquaintance continued. "You are not here to understand, but to experience. The next level of rank here is many times greater than what we have. Each level after is that much greater than the previous one. It is not just that each level has an even more glorious spiritual body, but that each level is closer to the throne where all of the glory comes from. Even so, I no longer feel the grief of my failure. I really deserve nothing. I am here by grace alone, and I am so thankful for what I have. He is so worthy to be loved. I could be doing many wondrous things now in the different realms of heaven, but I would rather stay here and just behold the glory, even if I am on the outer fringes."

Then, with a distant look in his eyes, he added, "Everyone in heaven is now in this room to watch His great mystery unfold, and to watch those of you who will fight the last battle."

"Can you see Him from here?" I asked. "I see His glory far away, but I cannot see Him."

"I can see many times better than you can," he answered. "And yes, I can see Him, and all that He is doing, even from here. I can also hear Him. I can also behold the earth. He gave us all that power. We are the great cloud of witnesses who are beholding you."

He departed back into the ranks and I began walking again, trying to understand all that he had said to me. As I looked over the great host that he had said were the foolish virgins, the ones who had spiritually slept away their life on earth, I knew that if any one of them appeared on earth now that they would be worshiped as gods, and yet they were the very least of those who were here!

I then began to think of all of the time that I had wasted in my life. It was such an overwhelming thought that I stopped. Then parts of my life began to pass before me. I began to experience a terrible grief over this one sin. I too had been one of the greatest of fools! I may have kept more oil in my lamp than others, but now I knew how foolish I had been to measure what was required of me by how others were doing. I, too, was one of the foolish virgins!

Just when I thought I would collapse under the weight of this terrible discovery, a man who I had known and esteemed as one of the great men of God I had known, came forward to steady me. Somehow his touch revived me. He then greeted me warmly. He was a man that I had wanted to be discipled by. I had met him, but we did not get along well. Like a number of others I had tried to get close enough to learn from, I was an irritation to him and he finally asked me to leave. For years I had felt guilty about this, feeling that I had missed a great opportunity because of some flaw in my character. Even though I had put it out of my mind, I still carried the weight of this failure. When I saw him it all surfaced, and a sick feeling came over me. Now he was so regal that I felt even more repulsive and embarrassed by my poor state. I wanted to hide but there was not way I could avoid him here. To my surprise, his warmth toward me was so genuine that he quickly put me at ease. There did not seem to be any barriers between us. In fact, the love I felt coming from him almost completely took away my self-consciousness." (Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest).

This shy Christian..... claims to be in the "outer darkness" of heaven.... which sure sounds like what Pastor Bob Jones reported. Three level of heaven.......... and that he was only comfortable in the first level......... but the light of the second and third heaven were too powerful for Pastor Bob Jones..... and he didn't feel so good there.........
 
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DennisTate

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Back during the 1990's I read some articles on Theoretical Physics that reminded me so much of what some Christian near death experiencers had reported that I began to ask myself a lot of questions.......
"It was not until 1920 that the idea of linking electromagnetism and
gravity resurfaced. At that time a new theory of gravitation had been proposed by Albert Einstein (1879-1955), called the general theory of relativity. It was a replacement of Newton's theory, which had stood unchallenged since 1687. Inspired by Einstein's work, a young German mathematician named Theodore Kaluza was seized by a curious idea. The theory of relativity links space an time together to form a four-dimensional space-time continuum. What would happen, mused Kaluza, if general relativity were formulated in five rather than four dimensions? This is what Kaluza did, and to everyone's astonishment it was discovered that five-dimensional gravity obeys the same laws as
four-dimensional gravity as well as Maxwell's laws for the electromagnetic field. In other words, gravitation and electromagnetism are automatically unified in five dimensions, where electromagnetism is merely a component of gravity!"


The only drawback of the theory concerns the extra dimension. Why
don't we see it?
An ingenious answer was provided by Oskar Klein. A
hosepipe viewed from afar looks like a wiggly line, i.e. one- dimensional.
However, on closer inspection it can be seen as a narrow tube. It is, in fact,
two-dimensional, and what was taken to be a point on the line is actually a
little circle going around the tube. In the same way, reasoned Klein, what we normally regard as a point in three dimensional space could in reality be a little circle going around a fourth space dimension. Thus Kaluza's extra
dimension might well exist, but be impossible to detect because it is closed
(circular) and rolled up to a very small circumference. In spite of
these bizarre overtones, it seems probable that in future a "theory of everything" will make use of the idea of unseen higher dimensions."
.
...

"Although nature manifests four distinct forces, physicists believe that
each may be part of a smaller number of more primitive forces. At high energy, the electromagnetic and weak forces appear to merge into a single "electroweak" force. Some "grand unified theories" suggest that a further amalgamation takes place between the electroweak and strong forces at as yet unattained energies. The most ambitious unification schemes envisage an amalgamation of all four forces into a single "superforce" at ultra-high levels of energy."...

"The real burden in the next three centuries will not be the development of fancy mathematics, but the experimental testing of these ambitious theories. All current thinking about total unification assumes that the effects of linking all the forces and particles together will only become manifest at energies that are some trillion times greater than those currently attainable in particle accelerators. Probably we shall never reach such energies directly" ( A Theory of Everything" Volume 21 of "The World of Science)

Those "unseen higher dimensions" sure sounded like what Dr. George Ritchie had reported after his 1943 near death experience.

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

Suddenly, a being of tremendous light and love appeared before him. Ritchie realizes this light is like "a million welders' lamps all blazing at once." Human eyes would be destroyed in a second if they saw it. The being tells Ritchie to stand up. Ritchie is astonished to learn he is standing before Jesus Christ. More than anything emanating from Jesus was the unbelievable amount of unconditional love shining from him - a love that knew everything about Ritchie and loved him just the same. Simultaneously, as Jesus appeared to him, Ritchie watches his entire life displayed before him. Jesus asks him, "What have you done with your life?" Ritchie tries to come up with several examples but realizes he has fallen short. Ritchie eventually realizes Jesus is not judging him at all; but rather, Ritchie was judging himself. And the question "What have you done with your life?" had more to do with "How much unconditional love have you given others."

George Ritchie's tour of the Earthbound Realm: Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.



Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.



Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."



They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over.

IF..... fundamental energy......... also perhaps called Energy from Quantum Vacuum..... came in two forms.... Super Strings and Super Waves THEN........
could it be possible for The Ancient of Days the Father to be composed of Super Strings while The Ancient of Days the Holy Spirit.... could be composed of Super Waves / Super Energetic Matter??????

Could it be that the Word / Logos of Genesis chapter one... and the other
Elohim with Him...... are composed of both... .Super Strings and Super Waves?????
 
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DennisTate

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Why would any woman, made in the image of God and saved by his Son, not be a Christian?

Exactly..... and for the record Daniel was replying to an online video by an Atheist........ that gave his youtube lecture, (rant) that title.
 
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ViaCrucis

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One of the criticisms the Romans made against the Christians frequently was that it was a religion of women and slaves. Christianity often appealed to the most marginalized members of Roman society because it gave them a voice and a more equal status. In Christianity women could take control over their own sexuality by not being mere chattel to their fathers or husbands.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Daniel does a great job of answering Atheists regarding the context of the situation faced by the Apostle Paul when he wrote:
1Titus 2:11, 12
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."


Why Would Any Woman Be A Christian? Answering Atheists

....
But I would like to tackle this topic from another angle......
Theistic Evolutionary Theory.....

Theistic Evolutionary Theory, could our Creator have evolved/learned?


Wave Theory and Gender: Why Sex

The Mormons actually are right here, the Holy Spirit (the Helper, the Comforter) is feminine.

They are also right that this has been a major secret of the universe.

People get weird on this.

But, for believers, they can note that her voice is clearly feminine.


Such teachings by Paul have to be taken in context of his times. Paul did also note there is neither male nor female in Christ, and so equality.

Of course, this is not something many can accept, nor do they need to.

There are various verses that prove this, but there is no reason to do this. She leads us as children of God to all truth, and people pervert this message. Instead of listening to her, they end up creating idols and getting into the mindless, heartless religion of idol worship.

Further, they confuse her with Eve. She is not Eve. The Garden was intentionally designed in such a way to lead Adam and Eve down the path they had to take.
 
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tansy

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Regarding the Holy Spirit being seen as God the Mother, I wouldn't exactly say that, but sometimes, depending, I see Him (not literally 'see') kind of like a mother. That does not mean to say I would call Him Mother, or any one of the Godhead, nor all three together.
 
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LivingontheEdge

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There is (always) a way to look negatively at the most 'positive' thing you could think to find in scripture.
It's that gift of the 'positive' Spirit that enables us to see the positive in everything. (i.e. ALL things work together for the GOOD."
 
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1213

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Why Would Any Woman Be A Christian?

Now that I have taught this more, perhaps love could be one reason, after all, Bible gives men this commandment:

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;… … Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself. For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord also does the assembly;… … Nevertheless each of you must also love his own wife even as himself;…
Eph. 5:25,28,29,33

I don’t think atheists have anything like that to offer.
 
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Strong in Him

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I think there are really 2 questions in this thread.

The first is about the role of women in the church, hence the title "why would any woman be a Christian?" I haven't watched the video, but it seems that some atheists have picked up on 1 Timothy 2:12 and may be using it, either to discredit the faith or to question why a woman would be a Christian with that sort of Scriptural teaching and male attitude.
The second, however, is one seemingly poised by the OP about the nature and gender of God - could his Spirit be female?

IMO, regarding the first; yes, a woman may speak, testify, prophecy and proclaim the Scriptures in church. Jesus elevated women and treated them with far more respect and worth than society did. And women were involved in many ministries in the early church.
Regarding the second; Jesus said that God is Spirit. Spirit does not have a gender, but the word used for for Holy Spirit is feminine. I don't think this is proof that the Spirit is feminine, but this serves to teach us about the nature of God.
 
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