Corporal punishment

[Futuwwa]

What do you people think of corporal punishment, hypothetically, as a complement to existing methods of punishment?

Personally I see no reason why not to use it. It is promoted both by Moses and Muhammed. Liberal do-gooders would object to it based on its alleged inhumanity, but hey, is it punishment if it's humane? It's not like the convict hasn't brought it down on himself, nay?

 

[OutCasteChild]

What is the reason for the corporal punishment? If it is solely for vengeance sake then it is no different than assaulting someone, especially if the prisoner is restrained. If it is to teach the criminal a lesson, then there are better methods that are more effective.

Pain is not a reliable deterent, and though it works in some in others it causing resentment and a need to get revenge. Behaviour modification through education and treatment of mental conditions is more effective.

 

[ebia]

What does it teach the person being punished except "it's ok to solve your problems through violence"?

 

[FSTDT]

It is promoted both by Moses and Muhammed.

Why should that matter?

In any case, longitudinal studies of the effects of corporal punishment indicate that it is an ineffective means of punishment, it tends to increase childhood and adolescent aggression, and tends to increase antisocial behavior. The worse part about corporal punishment is that it only teaches children immediate compliance to the authority figure doing the spanking, but it does not teach them right from wrong or contribute to the internalization of moral virtues. It teaches kids to be afraid of authority figures, but not to be good people.

I grew up in home where I got the hell beat out of me all the time, and as a result I've made the decision that I will never beat my own kids. I believe corporal punishment is child abuse.

 

[Spinrad]

What do you people think of corporal punishment, hypothetically, as a complement to existing methods of punishment?

Personally I see no reason why not to use it. It is promoted both by Moses and Muhammed. Liberal do-gooders would object to it based on its alleged inhumanity, but hey, is it punishment if it's humane? It's not like the convict hasn't brought it down on himself, nay?

Of what value is corporal punishment if an alternative will work?

 

[ebia]

Of what value is corporal punishment if an alternative will work?

Revenge.

 

[Helo]

I fail to see what smacking a kid will gain you.

If anything youll foster feelings of frustration, anger, or fear.

What Ive found to be VERY effective (I take care of my nieces and nephews all the time) is a quick flick on the lip with your forefinger. It stings for a second, its more supprising than anything else. Works like magic and you dont have the added side effect of mental trauma

 

[noobsaibot]

What do you people think of corporal punishment, hypothetically, as a complement to existing methods of punishment?

Personally I see no reason why not to use it. It is promoted both by Moses and Muhammed. Liberal do-gooders would object to it based on its alleged inhumanity, but hey, is it punishment if it's humane? It's not like the convict hasn't brought it down on himself, nay?

Yep, beat em till they can't stand up...that'll learn em.

 

[Futuwwa]

Seems like everyone's getting me wrong. First, I didn't talk about upbringing. I was talking about criminal law.

I never denied the fact that rehabilitation is better. However, not everyone can be rehabilitated. Some are driven into crime due to the circumstances, and can be helped out. However, some are simply bad. Of course, I'd rather have a guy respect the law. But, if I had to choose between a guy fearing the law or breaking it indiscriminately, I'd make him fear it.

 

[Futuwwa]

Revenge.

And putting someone into prison for years is NOT revenge, then?

 

[Helo]

Ok now its a bit more clear, corporal punishment in prisons.

I got no problems with it

 

[ebia]

Seems like everyone's getting me wrong. First, I didn't talk about upbringing. I was talking about criminal law.

So, while committing violence against children teaches them to be violent committing violence against adults teaches them not to be violent.

I never denied the fact that rehabilitation is better. However, not everyone can be rehabilitated. Some are driven into crime due to the circumstances, and can be helped out. However, some are simply bad. Of course, I'd rather have a guy respect the law. But, if I had to choose between a guy fearing the law or breaking it indiscriminately, I'd make him fear it.

This is a false dichotomy - deterence doesn't work very well. All you'll do is make the world more violent.

And putting someone into prison for years is NOT revenge, then?

It's not supposed to be, no.

 

[Spinrad]

Revenge.

Revenge is for the emotionally weak. Don't ask me to cater to such people. Anything else?

 

[Athene]

Seems like everyone's getting me wrong. First, I didn't talk about upbringing. I was talking about criminal law.

I never denied the fact that rehabilitation is better. However, not everyone can be rehabilitated. Some are driven into crime due to the circumstances, and can be helped out. However, some are simply bad. Of course, I'd rather have a guy respect the law. But, if I had to choose between a guy fearing the law or breaking it indiscriminately, I'd make him fear it.

In some states in the US, the penalty for first degree murder is death, you would think that the fear of being put to death would stop people from committing murder wouldn't you?

 

[Pastor Visser]

In some states in the US, the penalty for first degree murder is death, you would think that the fear of being put to death would stop people from committing murder wouldn't you?

...and how many murderers are actually put to death?

Very few.

Manson was sentenced to death before California overturned God's Law on corporal punishment, do the youth today wear Manson shirts or refrain from evil?

 

[Spinrad]

...and how many murderers are actually put to death?

Very few.

Manson was sentenced to death before California overturned God's Law on corporal punishment, do the youth today wear Manson shirts or refrain from evil?

And if he were dead would the youth do any different? And if my dog had wings would it fly?

Lots of states do have the death penalty, yet I bet the youth in those states sin as much as they ever did. They do in mine. We should perhaps kill anyone accused of anything on site. Why waste time and effort on trials and appeals? We all know trials are not truly accurate ways of determining guilt anyway. There is no accurate way. So why not just kill all criminals? Just to be safe. All sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord, after all. If a murderer is deserving of death so is the tax cheater and the jaywalker. All have sinned and fallen short.

 

[Futuwwa]

In some states in the US, the penalty for first degree murder is death, you would think that the fear of being put to death would stop people from committing murder wouldn't you?

Well, you can't know how it'd be without capital punishment. Just because it doesn't eliminate 100% of all crime it doesn't mean it has no effect.

 

[Pastor Visser]

And if he were dead would the youth do any different? And if my dog had wings would it fly?

If your dog had wings than it could probably fly -- just like if Manson and Atkins were put to death much less children would idolize the witches (Marilyn Manson anyone?).

Lots of states do have the death penalty, yet I bet the youth in those states sin as much as they ever did.

Wrong. Murder in America is at an all time high.

We should perhaps kill anyone accused of anything on site.

Two or more witnesses, dude -- Manson has many.

Why waste time and effort on trials and appeals? We all know trials are not truly accurate ways of determining guilt anyway. There is no accurate way. So why not just kill all criminals?

Right -- it's a waste of time that protects the criminal and condemns the victim.

God is judge, not man.

All sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord, after all.

Quote?

If a murderer is deserving of death so is the tax cheater and the jaywalker. All have sinned and fallen short.

"There is a sin worthy unto death" -- murder happens to be one of them (homosexuality is another).

 

[Futuwwa]

So, while committing violence against children teaches them to be violent committing violence against adults teaches them not to be violent.

The reason I don't support legalizing corporal punishment in upbringing is not that I don't think it'd ever do any good. The reason is, I just can't see how it could be legalized without getting abused.

This is a false dichotomy - deterence doesn't work very well. All you'll do is make the world more violent.

And what are you basing this on? Theft is virtually nonexistent in Saudi Arabia, why? They cut off a few fingers or a whole hand in case someone strays from the law. Grim perhaps, but it proves that corporal punishment does work.

It's not supposed to be, no.

So, corporal punishment is vengeance while imprisonment isn't? How come?

 

[Spinrad]

If your dog had wings than it could probably fly -- just like if Manson and Atkins were put to death much less children would idolize the witches (Marilyn Manson anyone?).



Wrong. Murder in America is at an all time high.



Two or more witnesses, dude -- Manson has many.



Right -- it's a waste of time that protects the criminal and condemns the victim.

God is judge, not man.



Quote?



"There is a sin worthy unto death" -- murder happens to be one of them (homosexuality is another).

So you advocate killing anyone accused of breaking the law?