Convince me of Continuationism.

[Carl Emerson]

It's also interesting that not one solid piece of evidence for "sign gifts" has been presented on this thread. Lot's of "you're so bad for being sceptics" and lots of deflection to other topics, but no solid evidence at all.

It is interesting that in my testimony thread here -

Jesus's Ministry

I offered medical evidence of a recent miraculous complete disappearance of cancer but when it comes to the crunch no sceptic wants to know - not one person on CF asked for the medical records which included comments that they had never seen that in over 2000 operations.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I leave some room for mystery so as not to condemn myself just in case I am wrong.

That is wise...

 

[Albion]

Charismatics speak in tongues all over the world, this OCCURS, it happens.

Not an issue. I can do it too.

 

[Tra Phull]

In a real earthly language, an angelic language, or both?

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

I am looking for a more comprehensive biblical case for why a Christian would believe in Continuationism and not just a passage or two (Which could be taken out of context). I am open to Continuationism (even though I currently lean towards Cessationism).

Therein lies your problem.

If you come at the scriptures with no preconceptions then you will read of how spiritual gifts appear and are used in Acts. You will see scattered references in the letters and one very long teaching (3 chapters) on the subject. Within that passage you don't find cessationism, you have to insert it.

The key verse often used (and that includes by you) refers to the perfect doing away with the partial. That clearly wasn't when Jesus came or died or when the Holy Spirit was given because they were all past. The context would suggest either 'love' or 'then' (verse 12)... or both, since the love had to be explained and clearly wasn't present in Corinth... yet Paul continues his teaching on gifts.

So really it is not up to the continuationist to explain their plain reading of scripture position. Continuationists only really exist as necessary objectors to cessationism.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Has anyone checked out Canon Andrew White who has had a remarkable ministry in Iraq. I woman from his church saw a mother wailing because her baby daughter had died. So they went to the morge and got the corpse out of the fridge and said Holy Spirit come... the baby came back to life and is alive today. Canon Andrew White is no fool - you should check him out.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Laying on of hands might be useful, but it is not necessary (e.g. Cornelius' household).

 

[Albion]

So really it is not up to the continuationist to explain their plain reading of scripture position.

Yeh, it is.

They need to explain how if the gifts ceased, they really didn't.

That's the entire issue. It's not how various Bible passages can be interpreted differently by the two sides.

 

[Tra Phull]

You are correct, Uncle Wayne.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

You are correct, Uncle Wayne.

I'll have you know that I am SILLY Uncle Wayne and don't you forget it .

 

[Tra Phull]

Cornelius' household is unique or at least out of the norm because of 2 things - the Holy Ghost fell on them with no laying on of hands, and it happened before water baptism.

Now I can picture Bible Highlighter getting poured on like Cornelius, whether hands are laid on him or not.

 

[Tra Phull]

You don't seem silly to me - but SILLY UNCLE WAYNE it is!

 

[Carl Emerson]

I do not doubt that God can heal today, and that God healed your daughter. What we do not find today is a person who can touch people and they ALWAYS heal 100% of the time as a part of having the gift of healing. The apostles who healed were able to heal all that came to them during the time of the early church when they had that gift. Paul healed a whole bunch of people, but later in his life, and he even sent clothes to heal others. It did not appear he had this same ability later on in his life because he was recommending Timothy to drink a little wine in his water for the infirmities of his stomach. Paul did not send him a healing cloth so as to 100% cure his condition. This to me suggests the temporary nature of the gifts (Which was to confirm the Word).

Jesus did not heal 100% because of lack of faith among the people...

Paul like all of us have seasons of service in life - also the account we have of his healings are not exhaustive.

 

[Tra Phull]

The apostles were unable to heal what might have been epilepsy - specifically they were unable to exorcise the evil spirit causing it.

The only answer given to the unsuccessful disciplies was " this kind cometh not out but by prayer and fasting "

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Bible does say some gifts will cease - tongues, prophecy and knowledge, which AS A GIFT would seem to be WORD OF KNOWLEDGE.

But when?

When we are with Him in eternity and His work through His body is finished then they wont be needed.

 

[topher694]

Yeh, it is.

They need to explain how if the gifts ceased, they really didn't.

That's the entire issue. It's not how various Bible passages can be interpreted differently by the two sides.

I don't mean this rude, I really don't, but when I read this I literally laughed out loud.

I mean read your own words: "if the gifts ceased". Logically, by definition you really actually DO have to prove the gifts ceased to prove your statement. You cannot know the conclusion is true without demonstrating the premise is true. This is basic Modus Tollens logic that the very computer you are using is - in part - based on.

To be fair it goes even further. In order prove the gifts ceased you first need to prove that they actually happened and existed in the first place. However, I don't see anyone arguing against that. The Bible is very clear that they do/did exist, so the next step in logic for cessationist is to demonstrate that they did in fact cease.

The issue then becomes and always has been the fact that both sides point to many of the exact same scriptures as their "proof". Clearly there is a difference in interpretation when we can look at the same scripture and come to different conclusions.

So how do we know the truth in such situations? Jesus gave us the answer. We would know the difference between the true and the false by the fruit. THAT is why I now focus on the fact that cessationists focus on doubt, accusation or assuming other believers are being dishonest (or dumb) to protect their view. Whereas continualists focus on God healing, prophesying, delivering, edifying and encouraging His people and they want others to experience the same. If others believe us or not does not threaten the foundation of our beliefs... it is just unfortunate for them.

When I look at the fruit of those two things, the answer is obvious.

 

[Guojing]

As I am following along with these posts, it looks like "Bible Highlighter" couldn't have made the answer to your question any clearer than he did by highlighting the answer in red, straight from Scripture.

there was more than one good news about Jesus in the New Testament.

that was my point

 

[Guojing]

.

 

[Guojing]

I already told you the good news. The good news is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

So you do agree that the good news that save us now is not

repent and believe Jesus is the son of God (John 20:31) correct?

we are in agreement then

my main point in relation to this topic is that that previous gospel to Israel, was accompanied by signs and wonders.

so they go together. If you believe that signs are for today, you must also believe that we are to preach that Jesus is promised messiah and that alone will save you, which is what the entire book of John was about (John 20:30-31)

 

[chevyontheriver]

The prophecy regarding the coming of the Holy Spirit was compared to the early and latter rain. Pentecost was the early rain, then the long mostly dry summer, and now the latter rain has fallen. Both the early and latter rain had to do with the beginning and ending of the covenant by Jesus. He's coming, probably within 10 years.

Not sure I agree. There have been gifts throughout the history of the Church, sometimes more and sometimes less. And miracles have continued. It wasn't a short term thing that went away and has now finally come back.

He's coming, probably within 10 years.

If you want to believe that, go ahead. I might hope it will happen soon, but I'm not going to set any timetable.

To me none of this is fighting stuff. I gather that to many it is, with the risk that some will really get bent out of shape by this thread.