I'm going to skip to number 53, because it's one of my favorite.
53. The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?
* Yes (Mark 15:32)
* No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)
Did you get that folks? "The gospels say...".
Oh yeah?
"Misled by tradition and the ignorance of Scripture on the part of mediæval painters, it is the general belief that only two were crucified with the Lord.
But Scripture does not say so. It states that there were two "thieves" (Greek
lestai = robbers, Matthew 27:38. Mark 15:27); and that there were two "malefactors" (Greek
kakourgoi, Luke 23:32).
THE FIVE CROSSES AT
PLOUBEZERE, NEAR LANNION,
Cotes-du-Nord, Brittany.
It is also recorded that both the robbers reviled Him (Matthew 27:44. Mark 15:32); while in Luke 23:39 only one of the malefactors "railed on Him", and "the other rebuked him" for so doing (verse 40). If there were only two, this is a real discrepancy; and there is another, for the two malefactors were "led with Him to be put to death" (Luke 23:32), and when they were come to Calvary, "they" then and there "crucified Him and the malefactors, one on the right hand and the other on the left" (verse 33).
But the other discrepancy is, according to Matthew, that after the parting of the garments, and after "sitting down they watched Him there", that "THEN" were there two robbers crucified with Him, one on the right hand and the other on the left" (Matthew 27:38. Mark 15:27). The two malefactors had already been "led with Him" and were therefore crucified "with Him", before the dividing of the garments, and before the two robbers were brought.
The first two (malefactors) who were "led with Him" were placed one on either side. When the other two (robbers) were brought, much later, they were also similarly placed; so that there were two (one of each) on either side and the Lord in the midst. The malefactors were therefore the nearer, and being on the inside they could speak to each other better, and the one with the Lord, as recorded (Luke 23:39 - 43).
John's record confirms this for he speaks only of place and not of time. He speaks, generally of the fact: "where they crucified Him, and with Him others, two on this side, and that side, and Jesus in the midst" (John 19:18). In Revelation 22:2 we have the same expression in the Greek (enteuthen kai enteuthen), which is accurately rendered "on either side". So it should be rendered here: "and with Him others, on either side."
But John further states (19:32, 33): "then came the soldiers and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with Him. But when they came (Greek = having come) to Jesus, and saw that He was dead already, they brake not His legs." Had there been only two (one on either side) the soldiers would not have come to the Lord, but would have passed Him, and then turned back again. But they came to Him after they had broken the legs of the first two.
There are two words used of the "other" and "others" in John 19:32 and Luke 23:32 (see Appendix 124. 1).
In the former passage we read, "they brake the legs of the first and of the other." Here the Greek is allos, which is the other (the second) of two when there are more (see Matthew 10:23; 25:16, 17, 20: 27:61; 28:1. John 18:15, 16; 20:2, 4, 8, and Revelation 17:10).
In the latter passage (Luke 23:32) the word is heteros = different (see Appendix 124. 2); "and others also, two, were being led with Him." These were different1 from Him with Whom they were led, not different from one another; for they were "in the same condemnation", and "justly", while He had "done nothing amiss" (verses 40, 41).
From this evidence, therefore, it is clear that there were four "others" crucified with the Lord; and thus, on the hand, there are no "discrepancies", as alleged; while, on the other hand, every word and every expression, in the Greek, gets (and gives) its own exact value, and its full significance.
To show that we are not without evidence, even from tradition, we may state that there is a "Calvary" to be seen at Ploubézéré near Lannion, in the Côtes-du-Nord, Brittany, known as Les Cinq Croix ("The Five Crosses"). There is a high cross in the centre, with four lower ones, two on either side. There may be other instances of which we have not heard.
"In the Roman Catholic church.... the altar-slab or 'table' alone is consecrated, and in sign if this are cut in its upper surface five Greek crosses, one in the centre and one in each corner... but the history of the origin and development of this practice is not fully worked out" (Encycl. Brit., 11th (Cambridge) ed., vol. i, pages 762, 763). This practice may possibly be explained by the subject of this Appendix.
From
The "Others" Crucified With The Lord (Matthew 27:38 and Luke 23:32).
Never let a nonbeliever tell you what the Scriptures say. They don't pay attention, and they have an agenda.
Unless the newbie "discover" shows any more interest, or if there is one you would like me to address, I'm gonna stop. I'll keep my subscription to this thread, or PM me.
Could you do a few other NT contradictions, too? Those are the ones I care most about. Numerical issues don't bother me terribly much; I see the Bible as a spiritual guide book which tells us of Christ-whom we can then have an eternal relationship with. It was written by men, inspired by God. I don't see a problem with that-the Bible was never meant to be a "miracle" as Muslims claim the Qu'ran is, but a Divinely inspired book where we can learn about God and develop a relationship with Him. And, just because the Qu'ran claims to be written by God, does not make it any more written by Him than any other religious text.
