Contraception

[NHB_MMA]

They are ranked in order of honor. Even within Scripture this is true. This is why Orthodox all stand while the Gospel is being read in the church (rather like how the Jews stood while the Law was read).

Holy Tradition is by definition infallible.

I was getting off-track with this, but was struck by curiosity.

I don't know exactly how this compares to Catholicism. I'm not saying Orthodoxy and Catholicism are virtually the same either, but are the two churches that do not proclaim Sola Scriptura (although no church truly believe in Sola Scriptura).

As I mentioned, I'm not even eligible to convert to Catholicism, because I cannot accept the Catholic dogma in its entirety. I don't agree with their view on contraception and don't quite agree with their view on divorce. To me, these matters are hardly so black and white that one should be denied fellowship in the faith, but whatever. The sad thing is there are people that were born into the Catholic church that have developed viewpoints of much greater stark opposition than mine, but membership is not an issue because they were born into the faith.

Anyway, my former roommate converted to Catholicism and explained to me that the Catholic dogma on these matters is viewed as "equal to Scripture" and I just find that too close to a backdoor entry into idolatry. I cannot belong to any church that puts philosophical arguments as equal to the Word.

I'm still not sure I understand, so if you can elaborate and help me out here, if you get what I'm saying.

 

[Fantine]

I think that Catholicism's position on contraception has much more to do with its interpretation of the Natural Law than it does with a desire for people to have larger families.

Many infertile couples will try artificial insemination, in vitro fertilization, surrogate motherhood--all because they want to have children of their own so badly (it is a powerful biological urge, obviously.)

It is really more a mandate to avoid biotechnological interference in the reproductive process--whether you are infertile or too fertile.

 

[LLWHA]

The use of contraception is sinful. It is against God's commandments, and against the universal teaching of the Church through the ages.

It's use and acceptance has always led quickly to the acceptance and use of abortion, and currently is destroying Western civilization, through the popularization of extra-maritial sex, and sub-replacement level birth rates.



Have fun discussing.

I believe there in nothing wrong with the use of contraception! There is no sin with not making babies every time you have sex.

God gave permission for ONE church and we all know where that was built. God lives in the heart of believers not a building!!

The churches are blind guides leading people straight to the fire.

 

[LJSGM]

Exactly. Ppl who use NFP as a contraceptive are just as guilty of sin. It's all in the mentality, anti-baby is the sin.

quote]

So, what you are saying is that if we do not want babies, and one form of not having babies (anti-babies)is not getting married, then, in effect, not getting married is a sin as well.

Where is the free will that God has given us? As far as I can see, Paul says it's not a sin to not marry, in fact, in this age and new covenant, he encourages us not to because it takes our focus off the Lord and the mission that has been given us. We now birth spiritual children onto Christ, too much focus is on the physical and that was the last age and the old covenant.

 

[Elspeth688]

it is not mentioned in the bible

 

[NHB_MMA]

Lotar, any help with the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy on the ranking of doctrine influences?

 

[mdaniel]

the Bible is the absolute pinnacle of doctrine, then tradition follows as being highly important, but not quite on the same infallible level as Scripture

The Bible is the word of God. Tradition has a place, but means nothing relative to the word of God.

I was listening to a Catholic radio program for a few minutes this afternoon while I was running some errands.

The gist of the message was that God picked the Catholic church to be his true church and that we have to believe everything the church says if we believe in Jesus.

I thought wow - pass the vomit bag.

We aren't bound to the bad teachings of any church. We have a bible that is pretty clear how we should live - to serve others.

God bless.

 

[Lotar]

Lotar, any help with the differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy on the ranking of doctrine influences?

Sent you a PM.

 

[Lotar]

Exactly. Ppl who use NFP as a contraceptive are just as guilty of sin. It's all in the mentality, anti-baby is the sin.

So, what you are saying is that if we do not want babies, and one form of not having babies (anti-babies)is not getting married, then, in effect, not getting married is a sin as well.

Where is the free will that God has given us? As far as I can see, Paul says it's not a sin to not marry, in fact, in this age and new covenant, he encourages us not to because it takes our focus off the Lord and the mission that has been given us. We now birth spiritual children onto Christ, too much focus is on the physical and that was the last age and the old covenant.

For the 15th million time: The sin is not in being childless, but in depriving the sex act of one of it's two purposes (procreative in this case) and/or in the anti-children (ie, wishing to avoid concieving them) mindset.

Not getting married is not a sin because you are not having sex (unless you are, at which point you are in sin anyways).

 

[mushowani]

Is it a battle of religion or its about revealing the Bible truths..let's baes all our arguements on the scriptures and let these scriptures be highlighted to give inspired arguements..... heated arguements which do not produce light are not good

 

[ParsonJefferson]

For the 15th million time: The sin is not in being childless, but in depriving the sex act of one of it's two purposes (procreative in this case) and/or in the anti-children (ie, wishing to avoid concieving them) mindset.

Not getting married is not a sin because you are not having sex (unless you are, at which point you are in sin anyways).

Well... here's the crux of the argument, and division.

It is NOT a sin for my wife and me, in our mid-40s and with grown children, to decide we don't want to have more children.

 

[Jedi]

For the 15th million time: The sin is not in being childless, but in depriving the sex act of one of it's two purposes (procreative in this case) and/or in the anti-children (ie, wishing to avoid concieving them) mindset

And for the 15th million time I've asked in these discussions, what are you using as a source to say that procreation is a necessary purpose of sex? Scripture gives no such mandate concerning sex. Curious, then, why this select few want to push this mandate on others and condemn them if they reject it.

 

[fuzzymel]

Its not mentioned in the bible. I have prayed about it and spoken to a pastor about it and come to the conclusion its totally fine.

 

[Lotar]

Well... here's the crux of the argument, and division.

It is NOT a sin for my wife and me, in our mid-40s and with grown children, to decide we don't want to have more children.

Yes it is.

 

[Calliso]

The bible says NOTHING about contraception NOTHING. And I know I might make some people angry when I say this..but frankly..I donlt really care that there is a small chance that a handful of cells might get destoyed. when I am on the pill. I mean I have trouble believing that the instant sperm meets egg God inplants a soul..not to mention..wouldn;t God know if the fertilized egg was going to just be rejected anyway and not bother putting a soul in there anyway? Also there are plenty of married couples out there who do not want children not at all *me included* How unfair would it be for a child to be born into a situation where there are not wanted? We got plenty of unwanted children already thank you. Also there are plenty of people who regardless of whether or not they want them..that should NOT have kids. But seriously I have yet to see anyone provide anything in the bible that solidly says contraception is bad, so my current belief is that whole contracpetion is evil stuff is all manmade.

 

[WashedBytheSon]

The use of contraception is sinful. It is against God's commandments, and against the universal teaching of the Church through the ages.

It's use and acceptance has always led quickly to the acceptance and use of abortion, and currently is destroying Western civilization, through the popularization of extra-maritial sex, and sub-replacement level birth rates.



Have fun discussing.

Birth control is not against scripture. Onan pulling out was not an issue of birth control but an issue of violating the Levite Marriage laws.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Yes it is.

Absolute hogwash.


Since you have absolutely no Scriptural authority to make that erroneous judgment, you need to walk straight-way out of our bedroom.

 

[mrslisae]

There's always abstaining....Is that considered birth control? for us it is...but then again, we don't want the government paying for our baby....so abstain we will

I come from a long line of folks who believed this way...One had children up till she was nearly 50 and her daughter had so many children that the only way she stopped was by having to have a hysterectomy at a very young age

I don't think its a sin, I think its sensible and responsible

 

[mushowani]

was sex meant for baby making alone? why is pleasant/ sweet? what does God say concerning sex?

I know of the son of Judah who got killed by God for spilling his sermen on the ground... whaat is the meaning of all this?

someone to PM me on this...pliz!!!

 

[DMagoh]

It is NOT a sin for my wife and me, in our mid-40s and with grown children, to decide we don't want to have more children.

Yes it is.

Good luck with your 20 kids Lotar. Let's see if you still feel this way when you are 55 and have 20 kids.