Contraception

[ParsonJefferson]

Yep... just as your belief comes from those who burned the alleged witches of Salem.

And where have I condemned you? i asked where do you get the idea from that God is okay with ABC and sterilization? You are yet to answer, BTW.

Sorry, but I'm not a descendants of the Salem folks.

The "place" that I get the idea that it's okay to get a vasectomy is the EXACT same place where you get the idea that it's okay to have kneeling benches in church.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Please show me how anything the Church teaches will contradict what is written in scripture.

Every doctrine derived of men who rule in the Churches are said to be of the scriptures. One can be desious to be a teacher of the law itself and have "no understanding" of the very things they confidently( no less) affirm.

I cant answer your question because theres ONE Church (know by her FRUIT) spread throughout the churches. I dont know which each one teaches. Though Jesus does speak concerning the Churches (in revelation) that some held to specific doctrines (within themselves).

I havent sat in them to figure out every doctrine every man within every place teaches to know.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Benedicta00]

Sorry, but I'm not a descendants of the Salem folks.

The "place" that I get the idea that it's okay to get a vasectomy is the EXACT same place where you get the idea that it's okay to have kneeling benches in church.

So you get this idea from yourself? Okay. finally an answer.

 

[Benedicta00]

Every doctrine derived of men who rule in the Churches are said to be of the scriptures. One can be desious to be a teacher of the law itself and have "no understanding" of the very things they confidently( no less) affirm.

I cant answer your question because theres ONE Church (know by her FRUIT) spread throughout the churches. I dont know which each one teaches. Though Jesus does speak concerning the Churches (in revelation) that some held to specific doctrines (within themselves).

I havent sat in them to figure out every doctrine every man within every place teaches to know.

Peace

Fireinfolding

Okay. but FYI- there is nothing in scripture that will contradict the Church's teachings and visa versa.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Okay. but FYI- there is nothing in scripture that will contradict the Church's teachings and visa versa.

If you add to His words He said He would prove anyone a liar, that includes everyone of us. Thats why EVERY MAN is to be a LIAR and God be TRUE that we might prevail in our SAYINGS because HIS are TRUE (not ours).

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Benedicta00]

If you add to His words He said He would prove anyone a liar, that includes everyone of us. Thats why EVERY MAN is to be a LIAR and God be TRUE that we might prevail in our SAYINGS because HIS are TRUE (not ours).

Peace

Fireinfolding

well, we're good then, becuase we don't add to it either.

 

[Fantine]

Obviously what is at issue here is the interpretation of the Bible, not the Bible itself.

In the sixties, the Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist churches announced new positions. In 1960 the Episcopal Church approved artificial birth control, and that year the General Assembly of the Presbyterians (U.S. Southern) declared that sex between a husband and wife without intent of procreation was not sinful. In 1961, the National Council of Churches approved birth control and family planning.

The article notes that "Leadership in mainstream churches tended to be men educated in reputable institutions," unlike some self-ordained evangelical non-denominational ministers.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch29.htm

I am sure that if you examine the websites of these churches and the National Council of Churches, I'm sure you'll find their reasoning listed.

http://www.ncccusa.org/

Just glanced at that website, but saw that it seems to have extensive articles on almost every social justice issue.

And a Pentecost message from Barack Obama, which states:

Even those who claim the Bible’s inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages – the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ’s divinity – are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.

Could your issue be your belief that nothing in the Bible is culturally specific?

 

[IamAdopted]

and what is the source that tells you that God is pleased?

And what is the source that tells you he isn't?

 

[IamAdopted]

It would be if i took God out the equation and was all about nature and seeing how i do not use any artificial BC for His sake and not for the sake of nature, I don't think I'm guilty of that any more than your are guilty of worshipping science by taking ABC.

So yet again I ask, who told you that God said it was okay to use ABC and to sterilize yourself as a form of BC?

If God wanted ABC and mutilation done on our organs that work- then why did he bother to make them work in the first place?

And why did he make a woman infertile half the month if he never wanted us to use nature to space children and wanted us to use chemicals and mutilation instead? DO you have an answer for this or not?

You do take God out of the picture by choosing to obstain. Same difference here. Just a different method. When you say no to sex because of your cycle then you take God out of the Picture because Procreation only happens during the sex in a marriage. So if you do not induldge in this act you cannot get pregnant.. Simple. Do you still not get it.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

So you get this idea from yourself? Okay. finally an answer.

The Roman Catholic Church has added, to the Bible, literally thousands of teachings, laws, rituals and regulations that are NOT in the Bible. And yes, some of them directly contradict what the Bible says - such as the Catholic teaching about "Onan's Sin" (something that had NOTHING to do with masturbation).

Your adherence to Catholic teaching INSTEAD of the Bible is your choice. Condemn me if you want for not falling in line with that, but I'm simply not following Catholic teaching instead of the Bible.

 

[IamAdopted]

Because the Catholic Church does not ascribed to the 16th century man made doctrine of sola scripture.

We believe the Church is the authority to teach us faith and morals becuase when she speaks to us she does so with the very voice of Christ (He who hears you, hears me).

Everything is not taught in the bible, why?

Because God gave us His Church, not only and just a bible.

We believe the Church is the authority to teach us faith and morals becuase when she speaks to us she does so with the very voice of Christ (He who hears you, hears me).

And this is where it goes into err. The Church has no more authority than the scriptures say. For it is written let God be true and every man a liar. Scripture has nothing to say on birth control so therefore the church has no authority on birth control. For if it cannot be found in scripture then God has not spoken it.

 

[IamAdopted]

well, we're good then, becuase we don't add to it either.

So if you didnt add to it how can you say BC is sin? It is not written in scripture. This has come from an outside source and not the scriptures. We can show you though that obstaining from sex just so you do not become pregnant is no where found. We find that this time is for a time of prayer and to come together soon so temptation does not take over.

 

[IamAdopted]

Like I said they swat at a gnat and swallow a camel.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

You do take God out of the picture by choosing to obstain. Same difference here. Just a different method. When you say no to sex because of your cycle then you take God out of the Picture because Procreation only happens during the sex in a marriage. So if you do not induldge in this act you cannot get pregnant.. Simple. Do you still not get it.

That is PRECISELY the point.

Unfortunately, Benedicta00 does NOT understand that. She is too steeped in non-Biblical church tradition to open her eyes and see it for what it is.

My wife & I choose one form of contraception, Benedicta00 chooses another form of contraception. I do not condemn her for her choice of contraception, but she condemns me for my choices of contraception.

 

[Benedicta00]

So if you didnt add to it how can you say BC is sin? It is not written in scripture. This has come from an outside source and not the scriptures. We can show you though that obstaining from sex just so you do not become pregnant is no where found. We find that this time is for a time of prayer and to come together soon so temptation does not take over.

Because the Church is Christ own, His bride and when she speaks to us, she does so with the voice of Christ and Christ can not deceive or be deceived.

Who is it that speaks to you on matters that are not found in the bible and tells you you are doing the right thing?

and how do you conclude that mutually agreed upon abstinence would be immoral?

We are discussing whether or not ABC is immoral- if it is good and moral- who tells you that?

 

[Benedicta00]

That is PRECISELY the point.

Unfortunately, Benedicta00 does NOT understand that. She is too steeped in non-Biblical church tradition to open her eyes and see it for what it is.

My wife & I choose one form of contraception, Benedicta00 chooses another form of contraception. I do not condemn her for her choice of contraception, but she condemns me for my choices of contraception.

can you show me how my view is unbiblical, on what means is morally acceptable to use in order to space children?

I eagerly await where scripture condemns NFP and uplifts ABC as the moral choice.

 

[IamAdopted]

Because the Church is Christ own, His bride and when she speaks to us, she does so with the voice of Christ and Christ can not deceive or be deceived.

Who is it that speaks to you on matters that are not found in the bible and tells you you are doing the right thing?

and how do you conclude that mutually agreed upon abstinence would be immoral?

We are discussing whether or not ABC is immoral- if it is good and moral- who tells you that?

The Church as you put it Bene is made up of living stones with Christ being the cheif cornerstone. It is not a sect. It is a living and breathing body. With Christ as its head. THe scriptures are what feeds this living Church for the scriptures are truth. Anything apart from scripture is of man and does not need to be taken as from God. So with you adding to scripture calling BC a sin is indeed adding to the scriptures. For it is not written. To say that you can obstain and this is Gods will does not line up with scripture for we see where it is written that the only reason to obstain is for prayer.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

can you show me how my view is unbiblical, on what means is morally acceptable to use in order to space children?

I eagerly await where scripture condemns NFP and uplifts ABC as the moral choice.

You might as well stop your circular argument. I am NOT saying that NFP is condemned in Scripture. You ARE claiming that other forms of Birth Control are wrong.

You've admitted that NFP is YOUR choice of contraception.
I told you that a vasectomy was MY choice of contraception.

We chose different forms of the same thing. That is all. Stop being so un-Biblically judgmental!

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Because the Church is Christ own, His bride and when she speaks to us, she does so with the voice of Christ and Christ can not deceive or be deceived.

Who is it that speaks to you on matters that are not found in the bible and tells you you are doing the right thing?

and how do you conclude that mutually agreed upon abstinence would be immoral?

We are discussing whether or not ABC is immoral- if it is good and moral- who tells you that?

Did Christ Himself tell Pope Urban II to start the Crusades - and lie to the people, telling them that if they die in battle they would automatically go to heaven?

If I were you, I'd be VERY careful about making claims - like that - about Christ's "revelations" to the Catholic Church!

 

[Benedicta00]

And this is where it goes into err. The Church has no more authority than the scriptures say. For it is written let God be true and every man a liar. Scripture has nothing to say on birth control so therefore the church has no authority on birth control. For if it cannot be found in scripture then God has not spoken it.

Okay, fine- remember how this started? the Church to you is no authority- we have been over this already.

Now, care to tell me who or what is the autherty that says to you ABC and sterilization is morally acceptable?

If you can not go to the bible for confirmation, then how do you know you are doing the right thing?