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Continental Drift
- Thread starter TheBear
- Start date
Fair enough. I'll look around for a good description of some of the hypotheses of how the mountains could have been formed by the same forces that could have caused a global flood. I read at least one good one somewhere - if I can find that link I'll post it.
I see. I misunderstood what you meant.
Noah and his family. What they witnessed was the flood, and someone recorded that. I assume Moses got the story as it was passed down from Noah, but it's possible Moses was given the story by direct revelation. Regardless, we have the same basic flood story passed down from generation to generation in nearly every culture on earth, so it was still recounted by eyewitnesses. At the risk of reopening a can of worms, the story has even survived in the etymology of Chinese characters (the character for ship is "boat+eight+mouth").
By the way, I read a flood account from the Fiji culture recently, which (to my surprise) contained parallel issues of G~d and faith as well as the flood (and no, there is no evidence the stories were influenced by missionaries). If I can find that book, I'll summarize the story here if anyone's interested. One of the other stories is pretty funny -- it's about demons using some guy as a volleyball...
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Like I said above, I'll try to find the link with a good description. If I recall correctly, the hypothesis is based on this verse:
Notice that the flood was not just caused by rain. The fountains of the great deep were broken up (water came up from under the ground, which was apparently broken by some force, be it impact, supernatural, whatever).
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I see. So you're just SPECULATING that the story was passed down from an eyewitness. But in the end you don't really know because YOU WEREN'T THERE.
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Smilin
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Nick, I knew how you'd reply, but you can't consider these people eyewitnesses to a GLOBAL flood. I know the biblical account well, but Noah could only witness what he physically saw. There is no way he could claim (based upon his experiences recorded in the Bible) that the ENTIRE Earth had flooded. A local flood yes...a global flood no.
Are you familiar with the Native American story passed down?
What you also failed to mention is that every cultural version of the flood story varies. This fact doesn't bother you?
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But it was not the flood that raised the mountains. It was during the flood that the fountains of the deep broke and loosed all the water they contained.
And the fountains of the deep, it sounds like, were huge underground bodies of water.
If these bodies of water were large enough much of the land would have sunk when they burst. If the fountains were under the mountains of the single continent, and the mountains collapsed, the continent would have flattened somewhat. And that means less water would be needed to cover all of the land in a global flood. These collapsed mountains would have been fractured in the collapsing.
Then around 150 years AFTER the flood were the events at the time of Babel, when God turned the world upside down, an in a PHYSICAL pole-shift of the planet, and changed the languages and speech of the inhabitants.
It was during the flipping of the planet that the land mass actually broke apart, sending the fragments in different directons. I think the upper layers that were the mountains before the fountains of the deep burst forth were the pieces that are the separate continents today. And the friction between those upper layers and the bedrock are what caused their movements to slow over time.
It was these fragments that slid around the globe, and when they meet they crash into each other forming the mountain ranges.
So it was not the flood that made the mountain ranges, it was the effects of the pole-shift.
Everyone seems to ignore what really happened at Babel. But it is there that you can see God working an evolutionary process.
One race to many.
One continent into many.
And you can see the effects directly from that ice-core graph.
The first large humps in the graph after the pole-shift show the dust of mountain ranges being formed. And also ice ages.
Everything was flooded, then shaken apart, then crashed back together.
Then frozen, then thawed. And over the next few thousand years everything is shaken up and mixed around with land masses crashing, volcanoes, ice and water erosion... not to mention a few comet or meteor strikes.
And you want everthing to be layered perfectly to give you an accurate account of events?
The fossil records show some things layered as they should be, and some layers mixed around. Sea creatures at the very top of the highest mountain ranges. The footprints of men within the footprints of dino's.
A lot of unexplainable stuff in the fossil records that could only come about in a scenerio like the Bible describes.
And the flood stories from all these different cultures all have the same origin, Noah and his family, who all of the cultures came from.
And no, the fact that the stories vary do not bother me.
Babel was a very confusing time. The way people thought and spoke changed. The world turned upside down. It was a time of great confussion, just as God intended. Memories were probably all jumbled up by the time God got finished with them.
And the fountains of the deep, it sounds like, were huge underground bodies of water.
If these bodies of water were large enough much of the land would have sunk when they burst. If the fountains were under the mountains of the single continent, and the mountains collapsed, the continent would have flattened somewhat. And that means less water would be needed to cover all of the land in a global flood. These collapsed mountains would have been fractured in the collapsing.
Then around 150 years AFTER the flood were the events at the time of Babel, when God turned the world upside down, an in a PHYSICAL pole-shift of the planet, and changed the languages and speech of the inhabitants.
It was during the flipping of the planet that the land mass actually broke apart, sending the fragments in different directons. I think the upper layers that were the mountains before the fountains of the deep burst forth were the pieces that are the separate continents today. And the friction between those upper layers and the bedrock are what caused their movements to slow over time.
It was these fragments that slid around the globe, and when they meet they crash into each other forming the mountain ranges.
So it was not the flood that made the mountain ranges, it was the effects of the pole-shift.
Everyone seems to ignore what really happened at Babel. But it is there that you can see God working an evolutionary process.
One race to many.
One continent into many.
And you can see the effects directly from that ice-core graph.
The first large humps in the graph after the pole-shift show the dust of mountain ranges being formed. And also ice ages.
Everything was flooded, then shaken apart, then crashed back together.
Then frozen, then thawed. And over the next few thousand years everything is shaken up and mixed around with land masses crashing, volcanoes, ice and water erosion... not to mention a few comet or meteor strikes.
And you want everthing to be layered perfectly to give you an accurate account of events?
The fossil records show some things layered as they should be, and some layers mixed around. Sea creatures at the very top of the highest mountain ranges. The footprints of men within the footprints of dino's.
A lot of unexplainable stuff in the fossil records that could only come about in a scenerio like the Bible describes.
And the flood stories from all these different cultures all have the same origin, Noah and his family, who all of the cultures came from.
And no, the fact that the stories vary do not bother me.
Babel was a very confusing time. The way people thought and spoke changed. The world turned upside down. It was a time of great confussion, just as God intended. Memories were probably all jumbled up by the time God got finished with them.
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lithium.
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Holycr** i can't believe some of you don't even know how mountains are formed, thats freaky. Ok don't fall out of your chair when you hear this. Tectonic plates is what formed the mountains, and also valcanos.
http://curriculum.calstatela.edu/courses/builders/lessons/less/les2/tectonic.html
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/collision.html
http://www.branches.co.uk/earth/tectonic.htm
http://www.tmm.utexas.edu/npl/mineralogy/Mineral_Genesis/defintectonicplates.htm
http://curriculum.calstatela.edu/courses/builders/lessons/less/les2/tectonic.html
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/collision.html
http://www.branches.co.uk/earth/tectonic.htm
http://www.tmm.utexas.edu/npl/mineralogy/Mineral_Genesis/defintectonicplates.htm
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I probably am, but I do not know the term Paluxy.
Why? Do you have something to say about it that would shed some light as to how human footprints were embedded in dino tracks?
Why? Do you have something to say about it that would shed some light as to how human footprints were embedded in dino tracks?
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The Paluxy river bed in Texas is home to the famous "dinosaur and human" tracks (beside, not within each other, mind you).
There's a whole whack of info about it here: http://members.aol.com/Paluxy2/paluxy.htm
Basically, there are no credible claims of actual man & dinosaur tracks together (at least, not to my knowledge).
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Now here is sound reasoning.
Tell us, Nick. Does the sun revolve around the earth, or does the earth revolve around the sun? And, how do you know?
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gladiatrix
Card-carrying EAC member
1......
While I realize that others have teased Npetreley for his demand for an "eyewitness", I want to put my two centavos in on the "eyewitness" gag..............
This demand for an "eyewitness" is patently ridiculous for no other reason that there is no way that anyone could have observed events like the beginning of life on earth. Think about it, if life had not begun or was just beginning, how would it be possible for a PERSON (Homo sapiens have only been around for a few thousand years) to have witnessed the said event. Not unless this eyewitness had access to a time-machine, Dr. Who's TARDIS or his "time television"(from "The Chase")!
To have observed the Biblical Flood (assuming the YEC dating for the moment) we would need a person alive today who was over 4400 years old!. This would, of course, contradict YEC claims that the old ages of Noah, Methusalum was due to the "vapor canopy" and oxygen rich atmosphere that only existed before the alleged Flood. Also note neither of these alleged persons lived past 1000 years, yet YECs like Npetreley demand one from scientists that would have to have lived for BILLIONS of years! (As I recall, Npetreley also dismissed my evidence for abiogenesis with the remark "you weren't there')
Second, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. As a matter of fact "the most common cause of wrongful conviction by the justice system is mistaken identification. The evidence for this is given HERE in Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science, June 1996, U.S. Dept. of Justice, Office of Justice Programs.
Let's look at just a small group of people wrongfully convicted and exonerated on DNA evidence by THE INNOCENCE PROJECT
To date their efforts have exonerated 114 wrongfully convicted people. A search HERE of just this small sample drew 13 persons convicted on eyewitness testimony,but later exonerated on DNA evidence.
For more on eyewitness testimony, use these links:
1. Looking Askance at Eyewitness Testimony(pdf file)
2. HERE is a lecture series, exploring the parameters of eyewitness testimony, what makes it flawed and how to minimize the problems.
[size=2.5]Give me physical evidence like the fossil record, the geological record, DNA and RNA homology studies, radiometric dating (based on the physics of isotopic decay), etc. over Npetreley's screwy "eyewitness" testimony (really monsterous hearsay, but that's another debate) any day!!! [/size]
PS. Npetreley, I assume that you wouldn't convict anyone of murder and/or rape UNLESS there was an eyewitness? In other words, you have dismissed the physical evidence for evolution, abiogenesis and continental drift and demanded an "eyewitness". The scientific process used to detect criminals is the same as that used for establishing the validity of evolution. Would you be consistent and dismiss DNA and other forensic evidence, if there were no eyewitnesses to a crime?
2..........
While I realize that others have teased Npetreley for his demand for an "eyewitness", I want to put my two centavos in on the "eyewitness" gag..............
This demand for an "eyewitness" is patently ridiculous for no other reason that there is no way that anyone could have observed events like the beginning of life on earth. Think about it, if life had not begun or was just beginning, how would it be possible for a PERSON (Homo sapiens have only been around for a few thousand years) to have witnessed the said event. Not unless this eyewitness had access to a time-machine, Dr. Who's TARDIS or his "time television"(from "The Chase")!
To have observed the Biblical Flood (assuming the YEC dating for the moment) we would need a person alive today who was over 4400 years old!. This would, of course, contradict YEC claims that the old ages of Noah, Methusalum was due to the "vapor canopy" and oxygen rich atmosphere that only existed before the alleged Flood. Also note neither of these alleged persons lived past 1000 years, yet YECs like Npetreley demand one from scientists that would have to have lived for BILLIONS of years! (As I recall, Npetreley also dismissed my evidence for abiogenesis with the remark "you weren't there')
Second, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. As a matter of fact "the most common cause of wrongful conviction by the justice system is mistaken identification. The evidence for this is given HERE in Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science, June 1996, U.S. Dept. of Justice, Office of Justice Programs.
Let's look at just a small group of people wrongfully convicted and exonerated on DNA evidence by THE INNOCENCE PROJECT
To date their efforts have exonerated 114 wrongfully convicted people. A search HERE of just this small sample drew 13 persons convicted on eyewitness testimony,but later exonerated on DNA evidence.
For more on eyewitness testimony, use these links:
1. Looking Askance at Eyewitness Testimony(pdf file)
2. HERE is a lecture series, exploring the parameters of eyewitness testimony, what makes it flawed and how to minimize the problems.
[size=2.5]Give me physical evidence like the fossil record, the geological record, DNA and RNA homology studies, radiometric dating (based on the physics of isotopic decay), etc. over Npetreley's screwy "eyewitness" testimony (really monsterous hearsay, but that's another debate) any day!!! [/size]
PS. Npetreley, I assume that you wouldn't convict anyone of murder and/or rape UNLESS there was an eyewitness? In other words, you have dismissed the physical evidence for evolution, abiogenesis and continental drift and demanded an "eyewitness". The scientific process used to detect criminals is the same as that used for establishing the validity of evolution. Would you be consistent and dismiss DNA and other forensic evidence, if there were no eyewitnesses to a crime?
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