Context determines timing in Luke 21:32

[mkgal1]

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Verse 11 says---Behold, I come quickly. How can that not be referring to His 2nd coming? And if it referring to that, obviously His 2nd coming never occurred in the lifetime of anyone living in the first century.

I feel like I need to keep repeating that this is all new to me - believing that this has been fulfilled.

It CAN refer to something besides our traditional belief of His 2nd coming - if you remove the "glasses" of that paradigm.

I'm still wobbly on this - but as I'm understanding right now, after the death of Jesus, there was a lot of confusion due to the false expectations. We see that there were many false prophets that arose during that time, and a lot of false teaching had infiltrated the early church.

Luke 17:23 ~ People will tell you, 'Look, there is the Son of Man,' or 'Here he is,' but don't go out and follow them.

Matthew 24:23
At that time, if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There He is,' do not believe it.

Mark 13:21
At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There He is!' do not believe it.


Luke 21:8
Jesus answered, "See to it that you are not deceived. For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.​

The way I see this text right now - the temptation to follow after these false teachers is what's most likely being referred to . During that time - when Rome was STILL in power and Jesus had died - it took great faith to believe that Jesus was still Messiah.

 

[BABerean2]

well you don't keep dead people from this hour of temptation, you keep live people from this hour.

All dead people are going to face the "hour" when Christ is the judge, based on John 5:27-30, and 2 Timothy 4:1.

The fact is that those from this ancient church in Asia Minor, and you and I will be there together, and we belong to the judge.
Therefore, we are not to fear this hour which will come upon the whole world.
The men of Nineveh will also be there.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Do you deny these facts?

.

 

[The Times]

What makes you conclude the Beast and the False Prophet were destroyed in 70AD?

Their going down in the LOF is 1000 years before Satan, Hell & Final enemy Death going down in the LOF. Why 70AD? I believe that the False Prophet is the Pharisaical Prostitute who was charged with all the blood of God's people from Abel and she is the one that hindered the Gospel of Jesus Christ and caused many stars (founding disciples of the 12 star woman of Revelation 12- The 1st Century Church) to be thrown down to the earth (persecuted, beaten and killed).

There couldn't possibly be anyone who has been cast into the lake of fire already. You do take the casting of someone into the LOF literally, right?

The LOF is the second death and it would seem to me that it refers to a state of being annihilated. When Satan, Hell and Death itself are cast into the LOF at Christ's 2nd coming, they cease to be and do not continue. The original 1st Beast and the 1st Century Pharisaical False Prophet used to be in 70AD.

That would also have to mean Revelation 19:21 was fulfilled at the time as well.

Revelation 19 is a follow-through from Revelation 18, do you agree?

Finer minute details of separating two groups of people before the Cross (Old Covenant -OC) and after the Cross (New Covenant - NC).

"In her was found the blood of prophets (OC) and of God’s holy people (NC)," (Rev 19:24)

“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
"He has avenged on her the blood of his servants (OC Prophets)"

Avenging the blood of the OC prophets seems to be tied to the OC mother Harlot when they were avenged in 70AD.

Yet Revelation 19:21 seems to be connected to the Gog battle where you place that in the end of the age.

Revelation 19:21 to me seems to portray the aftermath of the 70AD event.

I don't see how Revelation 19:20 can be meaning 70 AD, and Revelation 19:21 be meaning thousands of years later.

Revelation 19:20 is the OC mother Harlot and the Beast that carried her being judged. As a side note, the False Prophet term is used as a counterpart to the true OC prophets.

Revelation 19:21 paints the picture of the aftermath of the Beast and the OC False Pharisaical Prophet being finally judged.

Not that you are concluding that, but if Revelation 19:21 is indeed connected to the Gog battle like a lot of us tend to conclude, where you place that battle at the end of the age, that would indicate a gap between verse 20 and 21 of at least 2000 years, per your position.

The battle of Gog and Magog has different players in the absence of the 1st Beast and the OC False Pharisaical Prophet. The Gog battle I believe is within the New Testament Church itself by the two opponents who are the Goats and the Tares within Christ's body of believers.

Satan it would seem being dispossessed of the 1st Century Beast and 1st Century False Prophet, now he reverts to deception within members of Christ's body of believers who loved not the truth but ended up serving a lie as the many sons of perdition within the context of Apostasy (Falling Away from the faith). This is where 2 Thessalonians 2 comes in play with Zechariah 14:1 in regards to the Church city of God Jerusalem (His Church) being infiltrated by the Gentile nations from within its very walls.

Key clues are -

1) deceive the nations (Gentile nations) in the four corners of the earth
2) In number, they are like the sand on the seashore.

Abraham's seed is global and numbered as the sand of the seashore for this is prophetic of the Church City in play. The nations being deceived are the Gentiles who have globally come to a full number within Christ's body of believers and the battle lines are drawn within the New Testament Church between the Goats/Tares and the Sheep/Wheat.

 

[The Times]

That's a whole different gospel than what I see in Scripture.

I urge you to consider at least reading the post #83 that I replied to @DavidPT
Then I would like to hear your opinion in this regard, thanks.

 

[DavidPT]

All dead people are going to face the "hour" when Christ is the judge, based on John 5:27-30, and 2 Timothy 4:1.

The fact is that those from this ancient church in Asia Minor, and you and I will be there together, and we belong to the judge.
Therefore, we are not to fear this hour which will come upon the whole world.
The men of Nineveh will also be there.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Do you deny these facts?

.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Do you think dead people are going to be tempted after they rise from the dead? The text calls it the hour of temptation, 'temptation' being a keyword, and that this hour is used to try them that dwell upon the earth. Do you perhaps think 'try' in this context means to try, like in a court of law? I take 'try' in this context to be meaning as in to prove, to test. Such as the following, as an example.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 

[DavidPT]

I feel like I need to keep repeating that this is all new to me - believing that this has been fulfilled.

It CAN refer to something besides our traditional belief of His 2nd coming - if you remove the "glasses" of that paradigm.

I'm still wobbly on this - but as I'm understanding right now, after the death of Jesus, there was a lot of confusion due to the false expectations. We see that there were many false prophets that arose during that time, and a lot of false teaching had infiltrated the early church.

Luke 17:23 ~ People will tell you, 'Look, there is the Son of Man,' or 'Here he is,' but don't go out and follow them.

Matthew 24:23
At that time, if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There He is,' do not believe it.

Mark 13:21
At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There He is!' do not believe it.


Luke 21:8
Jesus answered, "See to it that you are not deceived. For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.​

The way I see this text right now - the temptation to follow after these false teachers is what's most likely being referred to . During that time - when Rome was STILL in power and Jesus had died - it took great faith to believe that Jesus was still Messiah.

We're on the same page here to a degree then. The main difference, you seem to think that only applied back then during the first century, where I tend to think, not only did it apply back then, it still applies today.

After reading your post and then making this one, I'm having 2nd thoughts about how I have been interpreting this hour of temptation, that it can only mean at the end of this age. The hour is obviously not meaning a literal hour, I think we can all at least agree with that.

 

[mkgal1]

We're on the same page here to a degree then. The main difference, you seem to think that only applied back then during the first century, where I tend to think, not only did it apply back then, it still applies today.

Oh......well, then......I've not been very clear. There is STILL a temptation to follow after false teachers (is that what you're referring to?). That's certainly not been resolved (you know....."there's nothing new under the sun"). Until we are ALL fully perfected - and sin has been completely eradicated by our wisdom and maturity - there are still going to be false teachers....and we are still going to be caught by their lies.

I think we agree on that.

It's still difficult to believe in what we can't see.

I have been interpreting this hour of temptation, that it can only mean at the end of this age.

I don't believe there IS an end to this age - as I believe we're living in the time of our High Priest's reign (Jesus) and His Kingdom has no end.

The hour is obviously not meaning a literal hour, I think we can all at least agree with that.

You're right - we can agree on that.

 

[mkgal1]

This overview of the Jewish Revolts by Ray Vander Laan is what led me to have a new perspective of most of the New Testament.

To me....this seems to allude to the "time of temptation" when people were confused as to who to follow....who was telling the truth:

Quoting Ray Vander Laan ------->
The Jewish Revolts

Jewish people of Jesus' day had a passionate desire for freedom from the domination of the pagan Romans and the oppressive Herod dynasty that had ruled them for many years. Revolt seethed continuously, mostly underground, for more than 100 years from the time Herod became king (37 BC) until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (AD 70).It is helpful to realize that this underlying struggle is the backdrop for Jesus' ministry, and why so many hoped he would be a conquering king. This helps us understand why the adulation of the crowds during the triumphal entry reduced Jesus to tears, and probably why many rejected his message.

THE RISING STORM Ever since the Romans arrived on the scene in 64 BC, the Jewish people were divided over how to respond to the rule of their often corrupt governors or the Herod family who served them. The religious community, particularly the Pharisees, believed the Jewish people were to be God's instruments on earth, from whom the Messiah would come to institute that glorious age when Israel would be a great and free nation. Many others, especially the secular community and apparently some of the Sadducees, noted the present reality of the rule of Rome and determined that cooperation was the best policy. The tyrannical rule of Rome and the paganism of its religious and Hellenistic culture heightened the contrast between the situation at hand and the messianic hopes. This difference produced increasing fragmentation of the people, and several movements developed in response.

The Zealots, an ultra-nationalistic group, proclaimed revolution to be God's solution (Acts 5:37). The Essenes withdrew, waiting anxiously for the Messiah to lead a violent overthrow of the Romans and their Jewish supporters. The Sadducees apparently practiced a form of cooperation since it was Rome who kept them securely in their position over the Temple and therefore over the people (John 11:49-50). The Herodions appeared satisfied with the Herod dynasty (Matt. 22:16). The Pharisees, condemning Rome's pagan excesses, were removed from politics and viewed the foreign oppressors as God's hand punishing his people for their unfaithfulness to the Torah. The country was in turmoil, each faction longing in a different way for the freedom they desired. To this climate of confusion, hatred, and division, many so-called messiahs came, each preaching his own brand of salvation (Acts 21:38). Jesus presented his unique message of redemption. Some followed his lead, but many did not. During feast days, especially Passover, tensions reached fever pitch and the Romans increased their military presence to prevent open revolt. The climate existed, however, for revolution to begin.

Herod Agrippa I, grandson of Herod the Great, died in AD 44 (Acts 12:19-23). The Romans appointed a series of governors called procurators, each apparently more corrupt and cruel than the previous ruler. Groups of rebel sicarii (assassins) were everywhere, killing Romans and the Jews who cooperated with them. Jonathan the high priest was assassinated. During this time, Paul was arrested (Acts 21:27-37) and accused of being one of the rebels (Acts 21:38). Popular support for the Zealots grew. The priesthood became more dependent on the Romans for security and support, and in so doing, they grew increasingly corrupt. This drove the common people toward the radical approach of the Zealots.

THE REVOLT BEGINS

While Christians and Jews were thrown to the wild animals by the emperor Nero in Rome, violence flared in Judea. In Caesarea, a conflict between Jews and Gentiles over activities next to the synagogue had been brewing for some time. In AD 66, on the Sabbath day, a Gentile offered a pagan sacrifice next to the entrance to the synagogue. There was an outcry from the citizens of Caesarea. The authorities in Jerusalem decided to end all foreign sacrifices, including the one for Caesar himself, in the Temple. Florus the governor, who lived in Caesarea, came to Jerusalem with troops, entered the Temple treasury, and took a large amount of gold. When people gathered to protest, Florus unleashed his legionnaires on innocent civilians of the city. Hundreds of women were raped, whipped, and crucified. More than 3,500 people were killed, including women and children.

The reaction was outrage.
~ The Jewish Revolts​

 

[BABerean2]

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

G3986
πειρασμός
peirasmos
pi-ras-mos'

From G3985; a putting to proof (by experiment [of good], experience [of evil], solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication adversity: - temptation, X try.
Total KJV occurrences: 21

.

 

[mkgal1]

.........I now think that "putting to proof" is a more accurate way to define "hour of temptation" (like BABerean2 just shared). I believe that term is referring specifically to the time after Christ had died and ascended....but before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Quoting Don Preston------>
Those who adhere to a late date (98-95 A.D.) for the writing of Revelation generally proclaim that the evidence for this is CLEAR. However, once you begin to look into this issue, you soon discover, quite stunningly so, how very little evidence actually exists for this view. Most of this evidence is tenuous at best, not independent, and, most importantly, it is not internal evidence taken from within the book of Revelation itself. The only evidence for the late date is purely external evidence which surprisingly violates and contradicts what the book of Revelation says about itself; its application, its framework, and its context, and thus, its dating. I am of the opinion that if a person does an in-depth, objective study of the book of Revelation with regard to its dating, that will come to no other conclusion but that it was written BEFORE the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and applied directly and prophetically to that event.

As Jesus speaks to the church at Philadelphia, they are being persecuted by the Jews (which is significant of itself), but Christ says in Revelation 3:10

Revelation 3:10 [KJV]

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall [Greek “mello” = IS ABOUT TO] come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Take note of the fact that John was writing to the churches in Asia who were being persecuted the Jews and yet there is MORE persecution about to come and the Lord says “I will keep you from the trial that is about to come.” Now, everyone admits that 1 Peter was written before the fall of Jersualem in 70 A.D. Peter is writing to the very same identical churches of Asia that John was writing to in Revelation. Except that in 1 Peter 4, Peter writes to them and says

1 Peter 4:12 [KJV]

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

This is an unfortunate translation and Smith’s Literal Translation renders this much better:

1 Peter 4:12 [SLT]

Dearly beloved, be not astonished at the refining of fire in you, being for trial to you, as a strange thing happening to you:

The fiery trial was already happening AMONG THEM in the present tense.

Jesus, through John in Revelation, predicts the coming of a trial on the churches of Asia and says “It’s about to come!” They were already being persecuted by the Jews, but more is coming. Peter, writing to the same identical churches, says “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is already among you.” Why were they not supposed to think it strange that it was happening to THEM? I suggest it is just exactly like 1 Thessalonians 3:2-4 where Paul says:

1 Thessalonians 3:2-4 [KJV]

And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith: That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.


I also suggest to you that John said the fiery trial is coming, it’s about to come…which is future tense. Peter, then writing to the identical people said the TRIAL IS HERE. But Peter was writing BEFORE the Fall of Jerusalem. So, if Peter, writing to the very same people, about the very same issue, says it is HERE, and if Peter is writing about what John and Jesus predicted, then since Revelation said “it is COMING”, but Peter said “IT IS HERE”, then of absolute necessity, the book of Revelation MUST have been written before 70 A.D. ~ Bible Study « Thy Kingdom Came...
​

 

[The Times]

The hour is coming to try whom?

unbelievers or believers?

 

[DavidPT]

The hour is coming to try whom?

unbelievers or believers?

I tend to think believers.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

.........
1 Peter 4:12 [KJV] Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
This is an unfortunate translation and Smith’s Literal Translation renders this much better:

1 Peter 4:12 [SLT]
Dearly beloved, be not astonished at the refining of fire in you, being for trial to you, as a strange thing happening to you:
The fiery trial was already happening AMONG THEM in the present tense.
​

Good verse.
I just happened to have a study on a word used in that verse over here if your interested.

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Now onto the Great City and verses in the NT and OT relating to the "burning" of Her....

The Greek word used for "burning", G4451, concerning the great City/Queen/Harlot in Revelation is rather unique, and used in only 3 verses

It comes from the root word G4442, [as mentioned in post #20]
FIRE Post #20 G4442

4451. purosis from 4448 πύρωσις (pyrōsis) occurs 3 times in 3 verses
ignition, i.e. (specially), smelting (figuratively, conflagration, calamity as a test):--burning, trial.
burning: Revelation 18:9, 18 that test ; the burning by which metals are roasted or reduced; by a figure drawn from the refiner's fire (on which cf. Proverbs 27:21), calamities or trials character: 1 Peter 4:12

1 Peter 4:12
Beloved, think it not strange<3579> at the firery<4451> toward trial<3986> to ye becoming as if a strange-thing<3581> to ye befalling,

Revelation 18:
9 The kings of the land, who committed sexual immorality and lived wantonly with her, will weep and wail over Her, when they look at the smoke of the firing<4451> of Her
18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of the firing<4451>of Her saying,
"What City is like to the great City"?

Strong's Greek: 4451. πύρωσις (purósis) -- a burning, hence a refining

Transliteration: purósis
Phonetic Spelling: (poo'-ro-sis)
Definition: a burning, a refining
Usage: a burning, trial, fiery test.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4451: πύρωσις

πύρωσις, πυρώσεως, ἡ (πυρόω), a burning: Revelation 18:9, 18; the burning by which metals are roasted or reduced; by a figure drawn from the refiner's fire (on which cf. Proverbs 27:21), calamities or trials that test character: 1 Peter 4:12 (Tertullian adv. Gnost. 12 ne expavescatis ustionem, quae agitur in vobis in tentationem), cf. 1 Peter 1:7 ((ἡ πύρωσις τῆς δοκιμασίας, 'Teaching etc. 16, 5 [ET])). (In the same and other senses by Aristotle, Theophrastus, Plutarch, others.)

(Tertullian adv. Gnost. 12 ne expavescatis ustionem, quae agitur in vobis in tentationem), cf. 1 Peter 1:7 ((ἡ πύρωσις τῆς δοκιμασίας, 'Teaching etc. 16, 5 [ET])). (In the same and other senses by Aristotle, Theophrastus, Plutarch, others.)

Strong's Greek Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

To be continued............



.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The hour is coming to try whom?

unbelievers or believers?

I think the answer is them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[The Times]

I think the answer is them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

In the Battle of Gog and Magog who does the world represent ? Believers or non believers?

The letter in Rev 3 concerns the Church right?

Clue.....

Rev 20:8
will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

Genesis 22:17
I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.

Hebrews 11:12
And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

 

[The Times]

In the Battle of Gog and Magog who does the world represent ? Believers or non believers?

The letter in Rev 3 concerns the Church right?

Clue.....

Rev 20:8
will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

Genesis 22:17
I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.

Hebrews 11:12
And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

With reference to the above post, the identity of those gentile nations in the Battle of Gog and Magog coming to full numbers against Jerusalem within the context of the entire globe is highly suggestive according to Zechariah 14:1-3 being believers within its very walls/congregations.

Therefore 70AD in regards to the entire globe of the gentile Christian body of believers numbering as the sand of the seashore is completely ruled out I believe.

 

[The Times]

With reference to the above post, the identity of those gentile nations in the Battle of Gog and Magog coming to full numbers against Jerusalem within the context of the entire globe is highly suggestive according to Zechariah 14:1-3 being believers within its very walls/congregations.

Therefore 70AD in regards to the entire globe of the gentile Christian body of believers numbering as the sand of the seashore is completely ruled out I believe.

The Battle of Armegedon is 70AD and the battle of Gog Magog is the final battle climaxing 2nd coming like a crescendo.

I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 and Zechariah 14:1-3 addresses the final battle of Gog Magog. The Man of sin is actually plural for people of sin who are accounted as the many sons of perdition within the NT Church City Jerusalem. They loved not the truth as delusion set in them because they originally received the knowledge of the truth, but later apostasized by serving a lie and having pleasure in unrighteousness.

The 2nd coming is Christ coming in judgement to judge the members of his Church City Jerusalem.

 

[DavidPT]

The Battle of Armegedon is 70AD and the battle of Gog Magog is the final battle climaxing 2nd coming like a crescendo.

I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 and Zechariah 14:1-3 addresses the final battle of Gog Magog. The Man of sin is actually plural for people of sin who are accounted as the many sons of perdition within the NT Church City Jerusalem. They loved not the truth as delusion set in them because they originally received the knowledge of the truth, but later apostasized by serving a lie and having pleasure in unrighteousness.

The 2nd coming is Christ coming in judgement to judge the members of his Church City Jerusalem.

You and I have a lot in common in regards to how we are understanding some of these things. More than you might realize. Unfortunately I can't seem to get onboard with some of your proposed timelines though. That aside, I'm on the same page with you about a lot of these things. For example, when you said in this post----The Man of sin is actually plural for people of sin who are accounted as the many sons of perdition within the NT Church City Jerusalem----that pretty much sums up how I tend to see it as well.

 

[The Times]

You and I have a lot in common in regards to how we are understanding some of these things. More than you might realize. Unfortunately I can't seem to get onboard with some of your proposed timelines though. That aside, I'm on the same page with you about a lot of these things. For example, when you said in this post----The Man of sin is actually plural for people of sin who are accounted as the many sons of perdition within the NT Church City Jerusalem----that pretty much sums up how I tend to see it as well.

Thank you for your feedback and heads up, I really appreciate it. I know of another poster who had a common understanding of these matters, but I have found that his profile has been disabled and his name font is an orange colour. I must say @TribulationSigns had a common understanding, have you come across his posts?

Here are several of his postings -

2 thess 2:3 "Falling Away"? is it Blasphemy

And your point is? Do you really understand what the verses are talking about?

Again the peace and safety are about the salvation offered by Christ FOR THE CONGREGATION.

Here, In 1 Thess 5:2-3, The Woman represents the unfaithful congregation where she is thinking that the day of Salvation is ongoing. Rather the verses are illustrating that the people in the congregation are in "trouble" and "distress" suffering pain because of their persecutors (false prophets and christs) in the Church that God used as a tool of judgment:

1st Thessalonians 5:3

• " For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

This is talking about false prophets. This is a warning to the CHURCH (woman) that there is a time coming when there would be a great deception, where professed Christians wrongly believe they have power in Christ that can bring salvation (peace). They "think" they have peace with God and they "think" they are in safety in the arms of the Lord, when in fact they are those under the wrath of God and their feet are ready to slide. Their professions of faith are MEANINGLESS because they have fallen away from the faith. This is what the verses are talking about!

Next!

Again, do you understand the verse?

It is you who the Lord will keep from the hour of trial that comes upon the world, not the world, or the wicked. Never has been.

Proverbs 3:25-26

• "Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.
• For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken."

Be not deceived by the growing wickedness in the world, nor the growing apostasy in the Church, for it has always been prophesied. Consider the Lilies of the field. And consider also the warnings God gave to the Messengers of the Church, and be not discouraged. We are victors or conquerors in Christ's work, not in the world. this is but a trial to test us. sadly, the test is not going well for professing Christians.

Revelation 3:10-11

• "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
• Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

That word temptation is the word "trail" and it is a "testing" program of God, which those who have overcome in Christ are made sure pillars in the temple. My friend, do not be discouraged, only believe and have patience and faith.

Moreover, God did not say that he will keep you from an hour of tribulation, through. Another error for pre-tribulation rapture, by the way.

Next!

The key word there is "thought." Most of the people snared in false Churches "think" that their Church is faithful. Because man is vain, conceited, proud in himself so that whatever he wants, he makes the truth a lie in order to have it. Thus what he thinks and believes is the truth, is an illusion. God will not have His people to remain in the unfaithful church where false prophets rules else they too will be deceived. So watch therefore and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these judgments that are taking place within the unfaithful congregation of Israel, aka Babylon the Great.

God is not talking about rapture to escape from the trouble of the world.
Next!

Luk 21:22-24

• For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
• But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
• And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Revelation 17:16-18

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
• For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
• And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

In Luke 21, the days of vengeance is God's wrath upon HIS CONGREGATION! His People! Especially His people WITHOUT the seal of God - the professed Christians. They will be led away spiritually captivity as they are being deceived like the Gentiles.

In Revelation 17, the three unclean spirits like frogs from these false prophets mouth, symbolizing it's God's purpose. God has appointed the unfaithful corporate Church to this wrath, but not the elect Church. Therefore, they will rise of God's Spirit that they see the abomination of the lawless man (man of sin) taking his position to rule as God in the congregation, and they will depart out. The Elect is spiritually called out that they not be partaker in the sins of the woman, who has spiritually become as Babylon. Selah!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thank you for your feedback and heads up, I really appreciate it. I know of another poster who had a common understanding of these matters, but I have found that his profile has been disabled and his name font is an orange colour. I must say @TribulationSigns had a common understanding, have you come across his posts?

Here are several of his postings -

2 thess 2:3 "Falling Away"? is it Blasphemy

TribulationSigns said: ↑
Luk 21:22-24

• For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
• But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
• And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

In Luke 21, the days of vengeance is God's wrath upon HIS CONGREGATION! His People! Especially His people WITHOUT the seal of God - the professed Christians. They will be led away spiritually captivity as they are being deceived like the Gentiles.

Yes, Tribulation Signs has some great posts, as do you and DavePT.
I actually have a thread on Isaiah 61 and Luke 21:22 for those interested.

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Is there anyone here that would like to discuss Luke's "Days of Vengeance"? I feel it is perhaps one of the most profound eschatological verses in the NT.

I will explain more fully as this thread goes along, and I hope we can have a fruitful, meaningful, edifying and friendly discussion on this.

Luke actually quotes from this famous prophetic verse of Isaiah 61:2:

Isaiah 61:2
To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
And the day of vengeance <5359> of our 'Elohim, To comfort all mourners.

As most everyone is aware of by now is, that Jesus leaves out the "Day of Vengeance" in His discourse recorded only by Luke. We will examine this more as we go along.

Luke 4:
16 Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up.
As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and when He stood up to read, 17 the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
18 'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to evangelize<2097 to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor<1184>.'
20 Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him,
21 and He began by saying,
“Today this Scripture<1124 is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

And now the prophetic end time verse of Luke 21:22 of the Temple/Jerusalem discourse.

Isaiah 61:2
To proclaim<7121> the year of the good pleasure<7522> of Yahweh,
And the day of vengeance <5359> of our 'Elohim, To comfort all mourners.

Luke 21:22
For these are the days of vengeance<1557>,
to fulfill<4130> all things having been written<1125>.


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