Constantine ruined everything

[Anto9us]

I must have inadvertently eaten meat that had been sacrificed to idols, and have been "smitten in the bowels by the hot breath of Beelzebub" and health took a bad turn for the worse

My icon for "tecnically protestant" -- will be a solid black square, representing Martin Luther pinning his 95 theses to the door IN TOTAL DARKNESS!!

Which is not reality, but neither are some of the "historical facts" posted in this thread...

I do admire many of the THOUGHTS posted in this thread, but as far as Bible Knowledge, original languages, and Church History, I feel Der Alter to be der top dog...

Still above ground, Hillsage, but not completely kosher, and this stomach bug hit me on the sabbath, didn't wait for sunday

As i see history, Emperor Connie reflected the ambiguity in theology which was ALREADY PRESENT in the early church

For a large minority were Arian

And SCRIPTURE itself- what was included and what was not- was also up for grabs

To my knowledge the first list of the 27 books in NT- no more
, no less, was in an Easter letter by Athanasius
Before council of Nicea

Athy is a "double hero"
Championing canon of NT as well as
Nicene theology which prevaled

And yes, civilwarbuff, ALAMO had long been a fort for soldiers rather than a mission- Spain and Mexico before Texas, which used to be its own Nation

Remember the Alamo
Remember Goliad
Remember San Jacinto

Remember Pepto Bismol

 

[Anto9us]

Pretty much Tom Hanks explained the reality of Constantine to the older guy in DA VINCI CODE movie

Its what the majority went with, albeit against a significant minority
Kinda like who our next Prez will be

I think, civilwarbuff, that General Houston caught Santy Anna's men with their pants down, surprising them hung over after a Mexican holiday- creeping thru tall grass til right in their camp- thus Texas won independence

I remember some facts of Texas history
I do NOT remember the dimensions of Moses Austin's cell (which was a test question in 7th grade)

 

[civilwarbuff]

I do NOT remember the dimensions of Moses Austin's cell (which was a test question in 7th grade)

Well, you are one up on me since I had to look up who he was though I thought he and Steve were related. That must make you a Native Texan since Texas History is a required subject in school.

 

[buzuxi02]

Constantine has zero bearing on western Christianity especially for protestantism. The same way King Abar has no bearing on either western or eastern christianity (except nominally for Assyrian christianity). Protestants are allowed to choose whatever books of the Bible they want to believe in. Can add, change or not observe whatever holidays they want. They can formulate their own doctrines etc.
Constantine was not even popular in the western Roman empire, this is why no one in western Europe names their kids Constantine anymore, yet it is one of the most prevalent names in the Greek and Slavic regions( of whom do not observe western christianity). Before the emperor Constantine, the name Constantine was a common roman name but his moving the capital to the "barbarian" land of Byzantium made him fall out of favor from western Europe. He is not even a canonized saint in the roman papal calendar, he is only recognized in the Eastern Orthodox and Coptic churches. A protestant arguing about Constantine is the same as a muslim from Tehran saying that the American Malcolm X and the Chicago based Nation of Islam influenced Shiite islam to much.

 

[Anto9us]

Moses Austin was father of Stephen F. Austin
To my knowledge, neither were related to Stevie Ray Vaughn,
And i can neither confirm nor deny that
Any of the three were descended
From Constantine

There was a Literary Critic named Constantine Guys
Otherwise no one names a son Constantine in our culture much anymore

 

[buzuxi02]

The name Constantine fell out of favor in the west after the 4th century when the roman nobility began to resent Constantine for transferring the roman senate to the Greek colony of Byzantium. I am named Constantine as are many of my relatives, (as it's one of the most popular greek names, popular pretty much throughout the balkans). Yet it is a Latin name not a Greek or Slavic name. It shows the lack of influence Constantine had on western Christianity, and if there is any protestant christianity can simply change it.

 

[civilwarbuff]

and if there is any protestant christianity can simply change it.

Your dismissal of Protestantism is duly noted.

 

[lesliedellow]

Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.

Constantine couldn't have cared less about theology; he just wanted a quiet life, and he wasn't getting it while the bishops were having a row over the Doctrine of the Trinity. He convened the Council of Nicea, so the bishops could sort themselves out, and come to an agreed formula.

Anybody who thinks Christianity was a doctrine free religion prior Constantine has clearly never read the epistles of Paul, not to mention the second century struggle between gnosticism and orthodox Christianity.

 

[1John2:4]

Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.

I think you nailed it! Constantine is a part of the system of lawlessness but he did not start it, it was already at work when the apostles were teaching.

2 Thessalonians 2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[Der Alte]

I must have inadvertently eaten meat that had been sacrificed to idols, and have been "smitten in the bowels by the hot breath of Beelzebub" and health took a bad turn for the worse

My icon for "tecnically protestant" -- will be a solid black square, representing Martin Luther pinning his 95 theses to the door IN TOTAL DARKNESS!!

Which is not reality, but neither are some of the "historical facts" posted in this thread...

I do admire many of the THOUGHTS posted in this thread, but as far as Bible Knowledge, original languages, and Church History, I feel Der Alter to be der top dog...

Still above ground, Hillsage, but not completely kosher, and this stomach bug hit me on the sabbath, didn't wait for sunday

As i see history, Emperor Connie reflected the ambiguity in theology which was ALREADY PRESENT in the early church

For a large minority were Arian

And SCRIPTURE itself- what was included and what was not- was also up for grabs

To my knowledge the first list of the 27 books in NT- no more
, no less, was in an Easter letter by Athanasius
Before council of Nicea

Athy is a "double hero"
Championing canon of NT as well as
Nicene theology which prevaled

And yes, civilwarbuff, ALAMO had long been a fort for soldiers rather than a mission- Spain and Mexico before Texas, which used to be its own Nation

Remember the Alamo
Remember Goliad
Remember San Jacinto

Remember Pepto Bismol

Thanks for the encouragement. I cracked up at that last line. My problem is just the opposite. I have to take iron for anemia and it causes shall we say a lack of motility.

 

[Hallstone]

Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.

Your suspicion about Constantine does have some validity, in order for one to see the truth of it one needs to understand syncretism, the ancient republican practice of adopting and altering religions for political purposes. I wrote an article on syncretism that you may find interesting. https://stonelesstemple.blogspot.com/2015/08/polychrist-synchretism.html

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter,
You and I have been through this numerous times.
The problem lies in the fact that we are both forming our understanding from two separate bodies of information. You are basing most of what you offer on what the 'church' teaches. I don't buy into that in the least. For they have proven that they will resort to deception to alter history or anything else that they can't deny by the shear overwhelming evidence that stops them.
But there are other sources of information that to me, are much more trustworthy. And even the Catholic Church can't deny many of the 'actions' of Constantine. They simply try to alter the 'facts' surrounding the 'acts'.
You know, like having his wife and son executed. The 'church' tries to 'sugar coat' it by indicating that the exact circumstances can't be verified so maybe he 'didn't' have them murdered. But the evidence speaks a different story. . . .

The problem lies in that you just blew off everything I have posted as "basing most of what [I] offer on what the 'church' teaches.'" Which is baloney, I don't quote "church teaching" and since I am not a Catholic I certainly do not quote anything from them, pertaining to doctrine.
.....What "evidence" speaks a different story about Constantine murdering his wife and son? I have been here at CF for 15+ years and I haven't seen any. For example the internet legend about Constantine supposedly murdering his wife and son, it was posted somewhere online years ago and copied and recopied over and over. It has a life of its own, you put it down over here and like the Phoenix its springs up from the ashes somewhere else. I don't suppose you noticed I quoted the Encyclopedia Britannica.
.....I long ago decided that most of the hard core posters are almost impossible to reach so my purpose is to keep exposing the false information which is repeatedly posted, such as Constantine murdering his wife and son, and perhaps reaching someone who is on the fence either thinking about joining or leaving a heterodox group.
.....If you happen to have anything like credible, verifiable, historical evidence pertaining to Constantine's "crimes" I would be glad to consider it. I suggested to someone Eusebius and Lactantius, who lived at the time of Constantine, but they were blown off as biased. I don't know where else one might find credible evidence, certainly not from anonymous 21st century blogs.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

On a side note...

you know how every news and social media story is 5% truth and 95% opinion?

I suppose the ancient texts should be read the same way.

I wouldn't correlate Facebook as worthy of reading the same way as the Masoretic biblical texts .

 

[Der Alte]

I challenge ANYONE to offer anything even simi reliable, whatever source you choose, to refute the FACT that Constantine had his son and wife executed. ANY source. For even the Catholic Church recognizes that the events took place. So I don't believe that there IS a 'single source' that would deny the deaths of his son and wife.
Blessings,
MEC

Your question is irrelevant. That Constantine had his son then his wife executed is not in question. What is relevant are the circumstances.

1911 Encyclopedia Britannica-Constantine
Whilst he was in Rome his eldest son, Crispus, was banished to Pola and there put to death on a charge brought against him by Fausta. Shortly afterwards, as it would seem, Constantine became convinced of his innocence, and ordered Fausta to be executed.
Read more: CONSTANTINE I - Online Information article about CONSTANTINE I http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/COM_COR/CONSTANTINE_I.html#ixzz4GGrEWPl6​

 

[Anto9us]

Der Alter, your "lack of motlity" - as I see it- was shared by Martin Luther- and by me too at most periods of the past

Yesterday I ate a Bacon Lettuce and Tomato sandwich without repercussions at either end, for which I thank Jehovah Rapha or Jehovah Jireh or which ever name of God to use

Best to just thank Jesus

By tomorrow, I should hear final word on apartment a block from YMCA and in walking distance of Methodist church where I used to be Tenor in the choir

Btw- Constantine's rubber- stamping of Christianity as a kosher religion, it was not permanent from that time on...

Shall we address JULIAN THE APOSTATE??

 

[thecolorsblend]

Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Is it your theory that Christianity wasn't based on a set of propositions prior to Constantine?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not sure why I see it this way. Practically nobody else does.
It seems to me that when Constantine demanded that Christianity be reduced to a written formula (AKA belief-based system) that he changed everything.

Outside of changing feast days and locations of historical events, he created a system where one was a member of the official religion if one believed certain facts and adopted certain practices.

I even suspect that this may have been the person Daniel spoke of. And think...that was a mere 300 and some years after Christ. The following years could very well be the "falling away" or "apostacy" spoken of by Paul.
I have been told for years that the falling away was the rejection of the modern American gospel.

Constantine only legalized Christianity. He thought he was going to have some control of it, but thankfully, that never happened.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well I don't have a direct quote but he did make himself ruler over the church and government. As well, we know he was not thrilled with the numerous beliefs and how the Christians seemed so divided to him. He wanted a solid belief system that could be written on a piece of paper. He also did pay for all of the expenses for the bishops to travel and stay there. In modern politics, we call that lobbying. In the real world its called bribery.

You'll have to prove that he made himself ruler over the Church. In fact, he moved his government to Constantinople and left the Church to govern Rome...

I don't disagree with the Nicene creed. It did wonders for organized religion. It did, however put the kabash on the eastern idea of oneness with God.

I wonder if perhaps I should not have posted the question. Looking back I may have given the vibe that this was a witch hunt...and its not.
Constantine was a person just like you and me and deserves all the respect anyone would. I cannot or will nt judge his motives. Its just that the church made a hugely massive move away from the orthodox "oneness with God" and he was largely responsible for it (along with the schisms that happened later)

 

[Root of Jesse]

Then you must be naive. Protestant -- by definition -- means against Catholicism. Back to Constantine. There are all kinds of legends about this legendary figure, but the fact remains that he tried to integrate Christianity with Paganism.

No, he didn't. People died for almost 400 years to protect and preserve the Faith. They wouldn't let one man sway that.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Alonso
I confess that in Junior High football
When we played the school from the hispanic part of town
We charged down the field at the kickoff screaming

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!

(Coach got onto us about it pretty bad)

But i do not remember burning any Popes in this lifetime...

Nor being burned at the stake myself...

Is that what you believe constitutes religious oppression?