Considering moving away from the Baptist title..

[grandma dolittle]

I'm not really against just baptist. The modern day church is a corrupted shell of what it was intended for, bleeding self righteousness and pride. Denominations in general are a problem. That wasn't the point of the church (us) 2000 years ago.

Chris,
Perhaps you need to leave that chuech and seek another. I have found the smaller the church, the closer to God you will get. They aren't trying to get the crowd by "tickleing their ears", and trying to get more members to support the large church and pastor.

Not all Baptist churches are that way. Some are very simple and services are simple; no program to hand out; no tithe evenlopes to hand out; no special choir that does the singing....... in the smaller churches the whole congretation are the choir; tithing is a plate passed around and nothing is said if you have nothing to give; the Holy Spirit will move among the services and if you have a burdened heart and need to pray at anytime during the services... just go to the altar and the church will join you and pray for you.

I love my simple Free Will Baptist church. We believe God's word is his message to us. We try to live how the Bible teaches. Don't get me wrong... every now and then we have a member try to stir trouble... when you have more than two people you will always have disagreements, but following the Bible, we can work it out.

 

[brittany111]

"In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord." Romans 14:5-8

This scripture talks about food, however the same principle could be applied here. The churches who use a piano only do so because they feel it is what is right. The churches who have a full band do so becaues they don't see anything wrong with it- both churches do what they do in order to worship the Lord.

 

[SoulBap6]

I've been doing a lot of Bible reading lately. A lot. And in doing this, I find many of the "rules and regulations" in a church, specifically a Baptist church, to not really have any basis in scripture. The more I ponder, read, and pray, it truly seems like modern day Baptist beliefs are nothing more than man made tradition.

-singing of hymns only
-not allowing any instruments besides a piano
-requiring men to wear suits if in any form of ministry or you just can't do it
-the teaching of small children and teenagers completely unbiblical things such as its a sin to hold hands and kiss/hug before marriage, it's a sin to go to the movies because it's the appearance of evil, it's a sin to drink (getting drunk is a sin, drinking is most definitely not) etc
-strict rules and regulations such as if you don't go to church every Sunday, there must be sin in your life, and you must not be right with God because of your lack of involvement with "church"

All of these things are unbiblical, and down right disgusting. Church has become a cesspool of self righteousness. It has become a cold religion. People care so much what others think of each other instead of glorifying God. Here's a news flash:

We have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS. WE ONLY HAVE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JESUS CHRIST. Stop trying to LIE your way into the good dispositions of others! NO ONE is good. We are sinners for life. It's a tattoo that cannot be removed. Yet people try to cover it up with fancy clothes and good deeds so their "brethren" will look at them and say, "wow! He must be close to The Lord!" Disgusting. Self righteousness. Selfish.

Since when was meeting together about us? It's about Christ, God, and worshipping Him!

This very fact is proved by walking into the Christian Advice section of these forums. You have people from all over the world scared to death that God doesn't love them because of what they've been taught.

"Is this a sin?"
"Is that a sin?"
"Is watching this movie a sin?"

Read the BIBLE and stop listening to the garbage people spew at you. We are under the law of FAITH. The Mosaic Law was for the Israelites. Not us. We are no longer under a schoolmaster. We are under the love and grace of Jesus Christ.

I have heard this before about nearly every different denomination, the Grass is always greener over the septic Tank. People have to make up their minds what does the Bible say and what does the church say? If you dis agree by all means go to a different Church and if that denomination does not suite you then go to one that does. Instead of complaining do something about it.
God is the the God of action, you don't want to be a Baptist be what you want to be, Baptist our Baptist they didn't like Jesus Christ much so it won't be the first time and it won't be the last.

 

[least]

Brittany, thank you so much for bringing us to the source of our guidance: God's Word!

Our Lord once met a Samaritan woman at a well just outside of Sychar and she presented him with a similar question about the differences of worship. She said to him, "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship." While hers was a question about location, today we argue about style. I chuckle while thinking how she may have said, "you people say..." You people say that we should sing contemporary songs and dress casually...you people say we should sing the old hymns and dress conservatively...and so on and so forth.

Jesus responded in this way; "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:21-24, NASB)

You cannot worship the Father in spirit unless you are his child. You cannot be his child unless you are born again (spiritually) through faith in Jesus as both Savior and Lord of your life. If you are his child you will seek to honor him by becoming more like him and presenting "your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, whis is your spiritual service of worship." This is worshiping him in truth.

The woman correctly stated that when the Messiah appeared, he would clear up all the muddy water about worship. As we know, he [Jesus] did clear it up for her, and he will clear it up for us as well. I rejoice in this and I hope you all will as well. Let us then worship as those whom the Father seeks--not for ourselves, but for him; in spirit and truth!

Chris, I hope you will prayerfully reconsider, although by this time you may have moved on. If not, I would ask you to think about a couple of possibilities. First, maybe you should be the prayer warrior that seeks God's hand in bringing new life in your congregation. Every generation requires a new leader to rise up! Second, it is possible God is calling you to another congregation. If that is the case, please to do not leave in hostility with your brothers and sisters--who are mine, as well. None of us have reached our perfection, but be patient...when the Messiah comes, we will!

 

[now faith]

I have heard this before about nearly every different denomination, the Grass is always greener over the septic Tank. People have to make up their minds what does the Bible say and what does the church say? If you dis agree by all means go to a different Church and if that denomination does not suite you then go to one that does. Instead of complaining do something about it.
God is the the God of action, you don't want to be a Baptist be what you want to be, Baptist our Baptist they didn't like Jesus Christ much so it won't be the first time and it won't be the last.

What a pious excuse for legalistic nonsense.
I bet the crowd Jesus had with him would cause a stirrup toward the door.
Legalism is demonic.

 

[Argamon]

IMHO, all of the non-denominationals are Protestant. It's common sense that you can't have Catholic without a Pope.

The non-denomationals fall under patterns of:
Calvinist / Southern Baptist
Arminian / charismatic
Messianic / Jewish roots

What was counter-intuitive to me, was that each Protestant sect has it's own, figurative Pope, who might make political statements on your behalf. In other words, one alleged branch of the Christan faith might be anti-Israel and pro-choice. So, many churches refused to keep their names.

I was personally raised Southern Baptist, will never fault the simplest sort of straight talker. You have my full on respect.

I believe that miracles have a kind of rhyme, reason, and rhythm. They are in accordance to a law, and a season. Miracles are meant to instruct, not meant to baffle or dumbfound.

And, I believe that salvation is of the Jews.

 

[Albion]

IMHO, all of the non-denominationals are Protestant. It's common sense that you can't have Catholic without a Pope.

That seems fair to say. Who's ever encountered a self-described non-denominational church that isn't close to the Baptists or Pentecostals?

What was counter-intuitive to me, was that each Protestant sect has it's own, figurative Pope, who might make political statements on your behalf.

No, that's not so. In fact, I can't imagine how anyone would come to such a POV. The position of Pope is much, much different from being elected the presiding officer of some denomination.

 

[Argamon]

I am speaking figuratively, not literally, but the Pope is elected, too. Again, the schismatics or denominations all have one. He practices intercessory prayer, commits his flock to unique doctrines, and issues rulings as a figurehead. Everyone who takes on one of these names can Google a legislative body, which speaks on their behalf.

If you find this unusual to read, you were not the first. No offense intended.

 

[Albion]

I am speaking figuratively, not literally, but the Pope is elected, too. Again, the schismatics or denominations all have one.

NO...they do not! The differences are so much more than whether or not the leader is elected. Consider the powers claimed and exercised by both, and you'll see that they are hardly the same.

He practices intercessory prayer, commits his flock to unique doctrines, and issues rulings as a figurehead.

Well, all kinds of people practice intercessory prayer, so that's not much of an issue.

But the Pope is far from being a figurehead. He's the head of state, infallible when speaking under the right circumstances about doctrine, claims universal jurisdiction, has absolute authority in appointing national and regional church leaders (i.e. bishops), and has enormous authority over church practice and teaching. Most heads of Protestant denominations, by contrast, have very limited authority in all areas, have no governmental jurisdiction whatsoever, and cannot pronounce on doctrine by themselves--which is not considered infallible under any circumstances--and they have a limited term of office, unlike the Pope who is there for life.

 

[Argamon]

Consider the powers claimed and exercised by both, and you'll see that they are hardly the same.

In short, the physical head of the church. (The Catholics claim the succession of Popes descends from Paul, as I recall.)

If you see it another way, feel free to elaborate. I doesn't offend me.

But, as for me, I personally felt a sense of false authority, when I began to ask questions about cults of personality at a strongly works based church. I'm not gonna say anybody's name, but, oh yeah, Calvinist / Protestants surely have their concept of celebrity, too.

 

[now faith]

NO...they do not! The differences are so much more than whether or not the leader is elected. Consider the powers claimed and exercised by both, and you'll see that they are hardly the same.


Well, all kinds of people practice intercessory prayer, so that's not much of an issue.

But the Pope is far from being a figurehead. He's the head of state, infallible when speaking under the right circumstances about doctrine, claims universal jurisdiction, has absolute authority in appointing national and regional church leaders (i.e. bishops), and has enormous authority over church practice and teaching. Most heads of Protestant denominations, by contrast, have very limited authority in all areas, have no governmental jurisdiction whatsoever, and cannot pronounce on doctrine by themselves--which is not considered infallible under any circumstances--and they have a limited term of office, unlike the Pope who is there for life.

Most Protestants do not need a infallible man,we have Christ as the head of our Church.

 

[grandma dolittle]

In short, the physical head of the church. (The Catholics claim the succession of Popes descends from Paul, as I recall.)

If you see it another way, feel free to elaborate. I doesn't offend me.

But, as for me, I personally felt a sense of false authority, when I began to ask questions about cults of personality at a strongly works based church. I'm not gonna say anybody's name, but, oh yeah, Calvinist / Protestants surely have their concept of celebrity, too.

(The Catholics claim the succession of Popes descends from Paul, as I recall.) Don't think so... it was Peter they claim was the first pope. I would love to be in a Catholic church and watch Paul walk in the doors! If you think Peter got blasted at Antioch.... imagine what Paul would say!

 

[Albion]

In short, the physical head of the church. (The Catholics claim the succession of Popes descends from Paul, as I recall.)

If you see it another way, feel free to elaborate. I doesn't offend me.

I get your point: Fire trucks are red; cherries are red; therefore, fire trucks and cherries are the same thing.

I was just pointing out that they are, in fact, not the same thing.

But, as for me, I personally felt a sense of false authority, when I began to ask questions about cults of personality at a strongly works based church. I'm not gonna say anybody's name, but, oh yeah, Calvinist / Protestants surely have their concept of celebrity, too.

All right. That might be worth discussing, but it's far more complicated a proposition than saying everyone's got a pope.

 

[now faith]

(The Catholics claim the succession of Popes descends from Paul, as I recall.) Don't think so... it was Peter they claim was the first pope. I would love to be in a Catholic church and watch Paul walk in the doors! If you think Peter got blasted at Antioch.... imagine what Paul would say!

I would love to see Peters face,if you told him he was a Roman Pope.
Considering he was crucified upside down by Romans.

 

[Albion]

I would love to see Peters face,if you told him he was a Roman Pope.
Considering he was crucified upside down by Romans.

Roman Catholic Church has popes.

Roman Empire executed Peter.

No connection.

 

[RenJac]

And that's how it SHOULD be, actual Biblical truth. But no, traditions of man somehow trump that in today's Baptist church.

Mine is nothing like you are saying, I do not think one should think ALL Baptist churches are like that...

 

[now faith]

Roman Catholic Church has popes.

Roman Empire executed Peter.

No connection.

Now did the Roman Church exist in Peters time?
If so why would it allow Its founder to be killed?
Show me historically a Roman Catholic Church before Constantine,who ruled 300 years after Peter died.

 

[now faith]

Roman Catholic Church has popes.

Roman Empire executed Peter.

No connection.

Mistakes my bad

 

[Albion]

Now did the Roman Church exist in Peters time?

Yes, there does appear to have been a Christian community in the city of Rome and environs.

If so why would it allow Its founder to be killed?

There wasn't much ability of ordinary people to oppose the long arm of the Roman Empire's authorities. It's like asking why people didn't stand up to the Gestapo or SS a half-century ago or to the Soviet police even more recently.

Show me historically a Roman Catholic Church before Constantine,who ruled 300 years after Peter died.

Well, there were churches all over the Roman Empire. The question is "Was the organization that we recognize today as the Roman Catholic Church in existence before ____?" That's up for debate. We do know that the bishop of Rome, whom Roman Catholics call the Pope, was in existence before Constantine, but it is much harder to show that he was seen by the church universal as being anything more important than other bishops. Because it is the most distinguishing mark of Roman Catholicism that the Pope is believed to be supreme over the whole church everywhere, and because it is clear that other bishops were at least as important until the fourth century or so, it is possible to argue that the RCC was founded only in the 300s or so.

 

[now faith]

Yes, there does appear to have been a Christian community in the city of Rome and environs.


There wasn't much ability of ordinary people to oppose the long arm of the Roman Empire's authorities. It's like asking why people didn't stand up to the Gestapo or SS a half-century ago or to the Soviet police even more recently.



Well, there were churches all over the Roman Empire. The question is "Was the organization that we recognize today as the Roman Catholic Church in existence before ____?" That's up for debate. We do know that the bishop of Rome, whom Roman Catholics call the Pope, was in existence before Constantine, but it is much harder to show that he was seen by the church universal as being anything more important than other bishops. Because it is the most distinguishing mark of Roman Catholicism that the Pope is believed to be supreme over the whole church everywhere, and because it is clear that other bishops were at least as important until the fourth century or so, it is possible to argue that the RCC was founded only in the 300s or so.

Well this may be our thread starters reason for moving from his Church.
Satan has a strongholds in Christianity due to dissension on doctoral debates.
I believe we become idolatrous over our faith,to the point Gods purposes are secondary.
And it is everyone including me.