Considering Becoming A Sabbath Keeper

[BobRyan]

Look at it like this: Acts 15 is to the New Covenant the same way Exodus 20 was to the Mosaic covenant.

Ex 20 gave us the 10 commandments. But then the Lord went on over the next 3 books to give another 603 commands.

IN the same way, God spoke to the apostles and the result was written in Acts 15. It was SPECIFICALLY addressed to gentile believers. If you do NOT believe that then read how James, who gave the ruling, understood it concerning believing Jews in Acts 21.17-26.

The Sabbath is BINDING on the Jews. Not so with gentile believers. BUT, they are free to enter in to the Sabbath and thereby reap its benefits.

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
In Rev 14:7 it is all mankind that is called to worship God who "created the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a quote from the Sabbath commandment
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said" -- and as it turns out God said all ten of them not just nine.
In Eph 6:2 - the entire unit of TEN is being identified when the text says "Honor thy father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- that requires a specific unit of Law -- and is only true of the TEN.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.
In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.

In your own statement you admit that the Jews would have known that the TEN Commandments - including the 4th Commandment were included in the "LAW of God" - so then when Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant includes God writing His "LAW on our heart and mind" both Jeremiah and HIS readers would have known that it was sin to violate the Sabbath and that the 4th Commandment was included in God's moral LAW.

 

[BobRyan]

Look at the first few pages of this thread -- Feb 13, 2015 #1

And notice that it is not just pro-Bible-Sabbath keepers that affirm the fact that all TEN of the TEN commandments apply to all the people of God both OT and NT -- but so also do the majority of pro-Sunday scholars.

 

[Dave-W]

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind"

That is in the Messianic Kingdom (some call the "millennium")

In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind"

Not what it says. It says it was made for man (as a blessing) and men not made to serve it.

in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment

Again referring to the Messianic kingdom.

In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".

Referring to us Messianic Jews.
Per Acts 21, the relaxation of the Mosaic commands that was granted to the Gentiles in Acts 15 does not apply to Jews. So it is the Messianic Jews that KEEP the Commandments (all 613) and carry the testimony of the Messiah.

In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.

Of course. There is a great blessing in keeping the Sabbath. But a blessing for doing something is very different than that thing being REQUIRED.

James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said"

James 1.1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.

He was writing to Messianic Jews.

Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.

Yes. But are YOU "within the gates" of the Jewish people? If not ......

I have to keep the Sabbath (and am happy to do so) because I am within the Messianic Jewish "gate."

In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.

Of course. But an example (especially where the OPTION is open to them) of them worshiping on the Sabbath is not a REQUIREMENT for them to worship on the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Look at it like this: Acts 15 is to the New Covenant the same way Exodus 20 was to the Mosaic covenant.

Ex 20 gave us the 10 commandments. But then the Lord went on over the next 3 books to give another 603 commands.

IN the same way, God spoke to the apostles and the result was written in Acts 15. It was SPECIFICALLY addressed to gentile believers. If you do NOT believe that then read how James, who gave the ruling, understood it concerning believing Jews in Acts 21.17-26.

The Sabbath is BINDING on the Jews. Not so with gentile believers. BUT, they are free to enter in to the Sabbath and thereby reap its benefits.

In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.
In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
In Rev 14:7 it is all mankind that is called to worship God who "created the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a quote from the Sabbath commandment
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said" -- and as it turns out God said all ten of them not just nine.
In Eph 6:2 - the entire unit of TEN is being identified when the text says "Honor thy father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- that requires a specific unit of Law -- and is only true of the TEN.
Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.
In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.

In your own statement you admit that the Jews would have known that the TEN Commandments - including the 4th Commandment were included in the "LAW of God" - so then when Jeremiah says that the NEW Covenant includes God writing His "LAW on our heart and mind" both Jeremiah and HIS readers would have known that it was sin to violate the Sabbath and that the 4th Commandment was included in God's moral LAW.

That is in the Messianic Kingdom (some call the "millennium")

There is no mention of millennium or "Not valid now" in fact Isaiah 66 comes after Isaiah 56 where gentiles are specifically blessed for keeping the Sabbath.

(Mark 2:27)
Not what it says. It says it was made for man (as a blessing) and men not made to serve it.

Nothing in Mark 2:27 about "not serving" rather the text that has this law as a blessing for mankind just as ALL of God's LAW is said to be "good" .. 'Holy Just and GOOD" and intended for "LIFE". The idea of "LAW as a blessing - so that you are blessed in rebellion against that LAW" is not a doctrine found in all of scripture.

Again referring to the Messianic kingdom.

Referring to us Messianic Jews.
Per Acts 21, the relaxation of the Mosaic commands that was granted to the Gentiles in Acts 15 does not apply to Jews. So it is the Messianic Jews that KEEP the Commandments (all 613) and carry the testimony of the Messiah.

Nothing in Rev 14 is restricted to Messianic Jews.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" not at all restricted to "Messianic Jews".
Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the LAW of GOD by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" - not at all limited to "Messianic Jews"

Of course. There is a great blessing in keeping the Sabbath. But a blessing for doing something is very different than that thing being REQUIRED.

Turns out - the TEN Commandments are the LAW of God. Even the OT admits this.

James 1.1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
He was writing to Messianic Jews.

James does not exclude any Christian from his text and there is no cutting up the NT by gentile Christians trying to avoid what Messianic Jews would like to reserve just to themselves. I pointed you to the reference thread where it is shown that the vast majority of even pro-sunday Christians scholars 'get' this Bible detail.

Romans 2 "to the Jew first and then to the gentile" makes no provision for "some of the Ten Commandments do not apply to gentiles". And as we all know - there were no "Messianic Jews" in Genesis 2:1-3 when all mankind keeps the Sabbath. And we all agree that in Is 66:23 "all mankind" is keeping the Sabbath -- not just messianic Jews.

Yes. But are YOU "within the gates" of the Jewish people? If not ......

A great many gentiles at the time of Moses were pagans. So they were worshiping false gods .. the ones 'within the gates' of Israel were in a position to know about the one True God and about the TEN Commandments.

I have to keep the Sabbath (and am happy to do so) because I am within the Messianic Jewish "gate."

So then is it a blessing or... "a burden"? 1 John 5:2-4 says it is not a burden.

To him that "knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" this is how the obligation applies to gentiles.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no such thing as the moral law of God as a blessing that God wants you to have - where when you rebel against it - it is not sin. "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

James points out that the binding nature in the TEN Commandments is the "HE who said" -- in James 2.

Who "said" the Sabbath Commandment? The same God that said all the other nine according to James.

What "Jews" are standing around in Gen 2:1-3 to take the Sabbath and leave Adam and Eve free not to be aware of the topic?

What "Jews" are standing around in Is 66:23 - the NEW Earth of Rev 21 which is AFTER the Millennium - to take the Sabbath from "ALL mankind"???

none.

 

[masmpg]

I have been considering becoming a Seventh Day Adventist or other Sabbath keeper for quite some time. I am a bit confused on the issue still because I hear voices from both sides so lets see if some of my questions can be answered.

My first question is on Romans 14:5

One man esteemeth one day above another : another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

My second question is on Colossians 2:16-17

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The bible, and the bible alone convicted me to become a sabbath keeper, so in the beginning of becoming sabbath keeper I tried the SDA denomination. I was not a little skeptical when the church started quoting this third grader from the pulpit. So consequently, instead of running to all the anti SDA rhetoric I started to read her books. I started with the little book "Steps to Christ", which I recommend all to read. It is no more SDA denominational then the bible is SDA. After months of reading I was converted, not to the SDA denomination, but to Christianity. Those who pick apart a couple errors from a woman who wrote over 150,000 pages of blessings have no business calling themselves followers of Jesus. Jesus at least gave the pharisees a chance to speak, and those who do not read any of Sister White's writings are not even doing that.

That being said I would like to share with you what Romans 14 is all about. Does Paul even mention worship, or any kind of holy gathering in that context? The way I see Romans 14 is like John Denver sings about "some days are diamonds, some days are stones". We esteem some days above others all the time. Some days we wake up down in the dumps and other times happy and blessed.

Now Colossians 2. What Paul wrote about the meat offerings and drink offerings and the ceremonial sabbath days in Colossians 2 are just that. As he, and all the disciples and jews agreed that they would not impose any of these "shadowy" sacrifices, offerings, or ceremonial feast days on the gentiles, but only that they would abide with no eating of blood, nor strangled, nor fornication. These meat, and drink offerings we are not to judge people by were a shadow of the cross. When Jesus came the shadow was gone, so were the meat offerings and drink offerings and ceremonial sabbath dayS!

 

[Shibolet]

Considering becoming a Sabbath Keeper.

Before you do, read this and you are welcome if you do:

The Two Concepts of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

 

[BobRyan]

Before you do, read this and you are welcome if you do:

The Two Concepts of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

The actual Bible Sabbath says this -

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God rested the SEVENTH day and gave to Adam as Sabbath -- but it was Adam's SECOND day - because this is the "Sabbath of the LORD thy God" and not of "Adam thy father". We keep God's Sabbath - the 7th day --

And every Christian knows that Jesus was resurrected on the FIRST day of the week - which is Sunday - which means every Christian knows what the Bible - SEVENTH day is.

 

[Shibolet]

The actual Bible Sabbath says this -

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God rested the SEVENTH day and gave to Adam as Sabbath -- but it was Adam's SECOND day - because this is the "Sabbath of the LORD thy God" and not of "Adam thy father". We keep God's Sabbath - the 7th day --earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God rested the SEVENTH day and gave to Adam as Sabbath -- but it was Adam's SECOND day - because this is the "Sabbath of the LORD thy God" and not of "Adam thy father". We keep God's Sabbath - the 7th day --

And every Christian knows that Jesus was resurrected on the FIRST day of the week - which is Sunday - which means every Christian knows what the Bible - SEVENTH day is.

I want you to feel welcome as a righteous Gentile who is not satisfied with the Noahide laws only and want a share in what HaShem has given to His People aka Israel, the Son of God. (Exodus 4:22,23 and Ezekiel 20:12,20) When the Spirit touches you with the desire to add more to what you already have, the Lord will give you a new ID with a name better than sons and daughters. (Israel 56:1-8)

 

[BobRyan]

Before you do, read this and you are welcome if you do:

The Two Concepts of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

The actual Bible Sabbath says this -

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God rested the SEVENTH day and gave to Adam as Sabbath -- but it was Adam's SECOND day - because this is the "Sabbath of the LORD thy God" and not of "Adam thy father". We keep God's Sabbath - the 7th day --

And every Christian knows that Jesus was resurrected on the FIRST day of the week - which is Sunday - which means every Christian knows what the Bible - SEVENTH day is.

I want you to feel welcome as a righteous Gentile who is not satisfied with the Noahide laws only and want a share in what HaShem has given to His People aka Israel, the Son of God. (Exodus 4:22,23 and Ezekiel 20:12,20) When the Spirit touches you with the desire to add more to what you already have, the Lord will give you a new ID with a name better than sons and daughters. (Israel 56:1-8)

Thanks. You and I both know that in the case of Bible-believing Christians and Jews - our common ground is "the Bible".

Christians are not going to ask Jews for a tradition or papal-like-statement on what to believe or what God requires - just as believing Jews are not going to ask Christians for some papal ruling on this or that topic. We can all agree on that point.

So given that our common ground is the "detail" we find in the Bible, I am pointing to a few that are hard to dismiss.

1. One is that there is no statement prior to Exodus 20:7 about not taking God's name in vain - and yet we all know this applies to all mankind "not just Jews".

2. Two is that Isaiah 56:1-8 is not a statement written in the form "just pick your own 1 day in 7 as the Bible Sabbath" nor does the actual Sabbath Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 say such a thing. And Christ is pretty clear in Mark 7:6-13 about making void the worship of those who think they can tinker-with/edit/bend the Commandments of God.

3. We have recorded in the NT many many Sabbath after Sabbath Gospel preaching events in places like Acts 18:4 , and Acts 17:1-4 and Acts 13:41-44... but we have nothing like that in the NT for week-day-1 , Sunday.

4. All Christians admit that week-day-1 is Sunday which means they are all admitting that the 7th day is Saturday. This is not the "main debate" with Christians. It is not that they don't know which day is the 7th day.