Considerations

[Douggg]

So, you acknowledge that the elect are Christians. Do you acknowledge that Gentile Christians are also among the elect? Or do you think that Romans 8:33 doesn't include Gentile Christians?

The Jews are elect (Christians) at the end of the seven years when Jesus returns. Matthew 24:31 is talking about those Jewish elect (not Gentile Christians) that will be gathered out of the nations to the land of their forefathers - Israel.

Did you become a Christian by being a Jew first or a Gentile first ?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The Jews are elect (Christians) at the end of the seven years when Jesus returns. Matthew 24:31 is talking about those Jewish elect (not Gentile Christians) that will be gathered out of the nations to the land of their forefathers - Israel.

Nonsense. Scripture teaches that the elect are Jew and Gentile Christians. That is who Paul referred to when he referred to the elect in Romans 8:33. The gathering of the elect when Jesus comes will be the gathering of Jew and Gentile Christians in the church because that is who the elect are. The elect will be gathered to meet Jesus in the air when He comes. You can't change that no matter what you do.

Did you become a Christian by being a Jew first or a Gentile first ?

What a ridiculous question that doesn't even deserve an answer because it makes no sense and is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No, the Roman conquest of 70AD is in the earlier verses of Matthew 24. In Matthew 24:4-13.

No, verses 4-13 relate to the end of the age ("the end" is referenced in that passage three times) which is when Jesus will come again.

Do you not think that Christians in Judea had to flee to the mountains in order avoid being killed or taken captive by the Roman armies in 70 AD? They did. And that's what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24:15-22 (also recorded in Luke 21:20-24 and Mark 13:14-20).

 

[Douggg]

No, verses 4-13 relate to the end of the age ("the end" is referenced in that passage three times) which is when Jesus will come again.

No, in Matthew 24:6, Jesus said the end is not yet. The end does not come until the gospel of the kingdom has been preached unto all the nations in the world, Matthew 24:14.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No, in Matthew 24:6, Jesus said the end is not yet. The end does not come until the gospel of the kingdom has been preached unto all the nations in the world, Matthew 24:14.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Where did I say otherwise? Nowhere. What I'm saying is that the references to "the end" in Matthew 24:4-14 are references to the end of the age, which is when Jesus will come. So, Matthew 24:6 is saying that wars and rumors of wars are not an indication that the end of the age has come yet, but are an indication that the end of the age is approaching because Jesus goes on to say that wars, earthquakes, pestilences and such are the beginning of sorrows or birth pains. It makes no sense to relate that verse to things that would occur before the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple buildings. Why would Jesus mention global events in relation to a coming local event? That makes no sense. I don't believe Jesus was saying that wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes and such not only didn't mean that the end of the age has not come yet, but that the end of the age would not come for a long time after that. Yet, that's apparently how you interpret it. In the way you interpret Matthew 24:4-13, the sorrows or birth pains go on for thousands of years. I can't buy into that way of thinking.

Jesus answered the question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed in Matthew 24:15-22. That makes a lot more sense than thinking He answered the question in Matthew 24:4-13 because it makes sense that He would want to warn Christians in Judea needing to flee from the impending destruction coming upon Judea and Jerusalem that ended up occurring in 70 AD.