Considerations

[Douggg]

Correct. And proven correct by many scriptures.
Why you can't understand these truths, is told to us in Isaiah 29:9-12 Because people choose to believe falsehoods, they get locked into them.
The only way for you an all who grip onto false theories, is to clear your mind of theories and unscriptural ideas and believe only what the Prophets actually did write.
If you can't do that, then just remember to stand firm in your faith as you pass through whatever happens.

So you don't think Deuteronomy 30:1-6 prophecy about the children of Israel is going to be fulfilled ?

Deuteronomy 30:1-6
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[keras]

they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Christian peoples ARE the elect.
If people like to think the Jews have any claim for Gods favour, they contradict much scripture.

It is also a provable fact that the Christian peoples are mainly descended from the ten Northern tribes, who migrated from where they were exiled to and are now scattered around the world. Israelites by ancestry and by faith.

 

[Douggg]

The Christian peoples ARE the elect.
If people like to think the Jews have any claim for Gods favour, they contradict much scripture.

It is also a provable fact that the Christian peoples are mainly descended from the ten Northern tribes, who migrated from where they were exiled to and are now scattered around the world. Israelites by ancestry and by faith.

Christians descended mainly from the ten Northern tribes ? No, the overwhelming vast number of Christians are descended from the gentles.

Deuteronomy 30:1-6 is about the children of Israel, not the gentiles.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So you don't think Deuteronomy 30:1-6 prophecy about the children of Israel is going to be fulfilled ?

Deuteronomy 30:1-6
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Scripture teaches that those who belong to Christ and are in the church are the elect, so we are the ones that the angels will gather when Jesus comes, just as Paul indicated in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.

Tell me, Douggg, who are the elect in this verse:

Romans 8:33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

 

[Douggg]

Scripture teaches that those who belong to Christ and are in the church are the elect, so we are the ones that the angels will gather when Jesus comes, just as Paul indicated in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.

Tell me, Douggg, who are the elect in this verse:

Romans 8:33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

chosen.

 

[keras]

Christians descended mainly from the ten Northern tribes ? No, the overwhelming vast number of Christians are descended from the gentles.

A Jew calls anyone who is not Jewish; a gentile.
This name includes the descendants of the ten Northern tribes of Israel. The Jews showed this in John 7:35

Who are the 'Chosen people'? 1 Peter 2:9-10, makes this clear;- the faithful Christian peoples, who are from every tribe, race nation and language.
Your wrong belief of a Jewish redemption, is a contradiction of the New Testament message of Salvation available to all thru Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

A Jew calls anyone who is not Jewish; a gentile.

keras, anyone familiar with the bible knows what gentiles are.

 

[keras]

keras, anyone familiar with the bible knows what gentiles are.

Read Galatians 3:26-29...there is neither Jew nor Gentile....you are all one people in Christ Jesus......
Also 1 Corinthians 1:23-24...to Jews and Greeks alike Jesus is the power of God.....

Please cease you attempts to make an ethnic group special, it is unbiblical and a lie from Satan.
However the Jews do have a special destiny, Matthew 8:12...those born into the Kingdom will be thrown out....

 

[Douggg]

Read Galatians 3:26-29...there is neither Jew nor Gentile....you are all one people in Christ Jesus......
Also 1 Corinthians 1:23-24...to Jews and Greeks alike Jesus is the power of God.....

Please cease you attempts to make an ethnic group special, it is unbiblical and a lie from Satan.
However the Jews do have a special destiny, Matthew 8:12...those born into the Kingdom will be thrown out....

Deuteronomy 30:1-6 is going to be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

Deuteronomy 30:1-6 is not referring to gentiles but the children of Israel.

 

[keras]

Deuteronomy 30:1-6 is going to be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

A guess, unsupported and refuted by many Prophesies like Isaiah 11:11-16, which are plainly not at the Return of Jesus. Revelation 19:11-21 describes something totally unrelated.

Deuteronomy 30:1-6 is not referring to gentiles but the children of Israel.

That was thousands of years ago.
Today; the Children of Israel, the descendants of the Patriarchs by faith, are the Christian peoples.

Literal Israel and Spiritual Israel:
Throughout the New Testament, as well as in some prophecies of the Old Testament, the Bible makes a transition from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. Hosea 2:23, Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:29; Romans 9-11

In Revelation 12:1-17, we find this transition from literal to spiritual Israel in the prophetic language of symbols. In verse 2, the symbolic woman is pregnant. Her child is Jesus who was born a Jew in the land of Judah. In verse 4 the dragon/Satan seeks to destroy the child Jesus when He is born. This was fulfilled by Herod: Matthew 2:13-16. In verse 5 the child is caught up to God in heaven, representing the resurrection of Christ.

As the prophecy progresses in verse 6, the woman no longer represents ethnic Israel but has now transitioned to spiritual Christian Israel: fleeing from persecution during the prophesied 42 months of the Great Tribulation. Verses 7-12 describes the victory gained over Satan by Jesus’ death on the Cross and how Satan and his angels are finally thrown down to the earth, 1260 days, three and a half years, the 42 month period before Jesus physically Returns.

Then, in verse 13 the woman is again brought to view, being persecuted by Satan. In verse 14 she is given wings of an eagle so as she can escape. Verses 6 and 14 present a major prophetic transition to God’s people. Both the woman and her place have changed from ethnic Israel in the Middle East to spiritual Israel and the place God has prepared for her. Note that some Christians remain: verse 17 and Satan persecutes them. They are the ‘many’ that agreed to the 7 year treaty of peace with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 11:32a and do not go into exile: Zephaniah 14:2

It is important to understand three truths outlined in the prophecy and confirmed both in the New Testament and in the history of the church:
After the death of Christ, the Israel of God, transitioned from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. From an ethnic people to all peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10

1. God’s faithful people: the woman, are moved from the holy Land to a place of safety on earth, given to her by God, to avoid the Great Tribulation.
2. The new Israelites of God: all true Christians, are the focal point of the New Testament and the inheritors of God’s promises to ancient Israel.

Thinking that God still has a plan to redeem ethnic Israel; the Jewish people, conflicts with many prophesies that say how Judah will be judged and only a remnant will survive. It is Christians, from every race, nation and language who are God’s true, righteous people. Galatians 6:16; the Overcomers [Israelites] of God. As seen in each of the seven Churchs of Revelation.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

chosen.

Are you trying to argue that the chosen are different from the elect? If so, that is an extremely ridiculous argument. The elect and the chosen are the same.

So, again, who are the elect in the following verse:

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[Douggg]

God’s faithful people: the woman, are moved from the holy Land to a place of safety on earth, given to her by God, to avoid the Great Tribulation.

That is not what Jesus said. Jesus said for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains in Matthew 24:15-21.

 

[keras]

That is not what Jesus said. Jesus said for them in Judaea to flee to the mountains in Matthew 24:15-21.

Matthew 24:15-22 was partially fulfilled in 70AD.
In the yet to happen punishment if the House of Judah, Isaiah 29:1-4, tells us that just a few will survive by hiding underground.

Nowhere is a Jewish Redemption Prophesied. The false and totally unbelievable idea of the Church going to heaven, while the Jews go thru tribulation will never happen.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 24:15-22 was partially fulfilled in 70AD.

What ? No. Jesus referred to what Daniel wrote about the abomination of desolation. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12, time of the end, Daniel 12:9.

 

[Douggg]

Are you trying to argue that the chosen are different from the elect? If so, that is an extremely ridiculous argument. The elect and the chosen are the same.

So, again, who are the elect in the following verse:

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Christians. The Jews will turn to Christ and the gospel of salvation in the middle part of the forthcoming 7 years. Revelation 12:10.

 

[keras]

What ? No. Jesus referred to what Daniel wrote about the abomination of desolation. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12, time of the end, Daniel 12:9.

It isn't hard to figure that Jesus is talking about 2 events in Matthew 24:15-22 To make it fit 70 AD, or the end times, doesn't fit either.
The Jews will play no part in the end times events, as they will be gone and only a remnant will join their Christian brethren.

The 'rapture' believers fond imaginings of their being in heaven while the Jews get tribulation, is just a fable and cannot happen.
As you provide no scripture for the 'rapture to heaven', you again show how your beliefs are not scriptural.

 

[Douggg]

It isn't hard to figure that Jesus is talking about 2 events in Matthew 24:15-22 To make it fit 70 AD, or the end times, doesn't fit either.

keras, according to Daniel 12:11-12, the abomination of desolation that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:15-21 will be set up in the end times.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Christians. The Jews will turn to Christ and the gospel of salvation in the middle part of the forthcoming 7 years. Revelation 12:10.

So, you acknowledge that the elect are Christians. Do you acknowledge that Gentile Christians are also among the elect? Or do you think that Romans 8:33 doesn't include Gentile Christians?

 

[keras]

according to Daniel 12:11-12, the abomination of desolation that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:15-21 will be set up in the end times.

Yes - The AoD of Daniel and 2 Thess 2:4, are still future, but what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21, also covers the Roman conquest of 70AD.
This can be seen in that Prophecy, as the Christian Jews did escape to Pella in the first century, when the 'beast' conquers the holy peoples of God, Daniel 7:25 & Rev 13:7, and they are separated into 2 groups; one taken to safety; Rev 12:14, the other must remain; Rev 12:17

 

[Douggg]

Yes - The AoD of Daniel and 2 Thess 2:4, are still future, but what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21, also covers the Roman conquest of 70AD.

No, the Roman conquest of 70AD is in the earlier verses of Matthew 24. In Matthew 24:4-13.