Conservatives and Double Standards?

[jgarden]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has estimated that extending the Bush tax cuts of 2001-2003 beyond their 2010 expiration would increase deficits by $1.8 trillion dollars over the following decade.[32] The CBO also completed a study in 2005 analyzing a hypothetical 10% income tax cut and concluded that under various scenarios there would be minimal offsets to the loss of revenue. In other words, deficits would increase by nearly the same amount as the tax cut in the first five years, with limited feedback revenue thereafter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-...s#cite_note-50

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The Bush Administration is a classic example of Republicans using $1.8 trillion in public funds to provide "tax cuts" to redistribute wealth in America to a select few - in the name of stimulating the economy and job creation.

Republicans, however, denounce social programs by the Democrats as "socialist"attempts to "redistribute the wealth."

After 8 years, perhaps the Republicans would care to explain -
- Where are the jobs?
- Where is the booming economy?
- What happened to most of the $1.8 trillion?
- Where's the accountability?

 

[GodGunsAndGlory]

"..and the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will..."

-2.Tim 2:24-26

Oh well, who'd thought that "glorious guns" could ever launch anything "kind", "gentle" or "spirit-filled" in the first place... Well, I at least know that it is not our God who is inspiring the continuous stream of these dirty words... btw, say hi to "Dr." Savage, too! God bless your great nation!

Marcionist do not criticize me.

 

[Terral]

Hi Sally:

Why does it so often seem that, especially in the USA, conservatives want to put laws into effect that outlaw gay marriage, and cite the Bible for doing so, yet do not want to put into effect government programs that care for the outcasts, the meek, the sick, the children?

Your query is based upon the false assumption that the USA has no programs in place for the poor, when that is not the case at all (healthcare affairs.org and reuters.com article). Christ says,

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"For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them; but you do not always have Me." Mark 14:7.

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The poor will be with us ALWAYS no matter how many programs you create. One man will rise up early and head off to work, while the next guy rolls over and waits to be fed by another. Some men would rather stand along the interstate holding up a “Feed me!” sign than use his time searching for a good-paying job. Here you are writing about our obligations to the poor, when illegal alien foreign nationals are lining up to receive everything from taxpayer-provided county services (story) to college aid (story). Americans sent 70 Billion dollars to poor countries in 2004 (story), but you seem to think We The People are not doing enough for the poor. :0)

The idea that you want to make comparisons between homosexuality and giving money to the poor seems a bit odd from my perspective, because God’s Word says those practicing such things are “worthy of death” (Romans 1:32). New Testament Scripture for our church says,

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"Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect." Titus 2:9-10.

[/FONT]
And yet, the very concept of slavery is far more objectionable to you than the indecent acts of a ‘depraved mind’ (Rom. 1:28) making these homosexuals worthy of death! Right? What many of you fail to realize that is Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings (1Tim 6:15) and that “His Heavenly Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18) has nothing to do with democracy. Israel was governed by ‘kings’ like David and Solomon who made provisions for the poor along with every member of their kingdoms. However, Senor Bush and Congress allow 20 million illegal alien foreign nationals to run around loose EVERYWHERE displacing law-abiding US citizens from jobs, as 25 US citizens are killed every day (12 by murder = story) by the massive sea of illegal alien humanity acting like they own the place. I personally know MANY Floridians sitting in jail and prison right this moment, because of being displaced by illegal alien foreign nationals and giving in to the frustrations of watching their American Dream becoming a living nightmare.

Masons and their tenders and carpenters and their helpers and roofers, dry-wallers, etc. are suffering under depressed wages, because of the 50 illegal foreign nationals standing on every street corner willing to do their job for less than half the price. This mortgage and credit crisis has MUCH more to do with the ‘displacement’ of law-abiding US citizens from JOBS by illegal alien foreign nationals, outsourcing and broken guest worker visa programs (9 of them) than the media is willing to report and admit. The lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder are collapsing, and local county and state budgets are dwindling, because our US economy is imploding from the bottom (first) to the top more and more with each passing day. Guess what sports fans? Displaced Americans cannot afford to make mortgage payments or pay their taxes, OR give money to the poor that ‘they’ are joining in droves. The time is approaching to ask yourself if sitting in a prison, or along the interstate, or in Tent City in homelessness without hope, is better than having a Good Master provide food, clothing, shelter and dignity for services rendered. Capitalism simply DOES NOT WORK, because greedy and corrupt men eventually take power leading to nothing short of the current Lawlessness running rampant across the land devouring the weak and unstable.

The Bible has so much on the latter, on how we must help. So why are so many conservatives against welfare, universal healthcare, and even sometimes universal education?

Universal healthcare DOES NOT WORK for the USA, because of the same greed and lust for POWER of greedy unscrupulous men. I have lived overseas where even guest workers have universal healthcare, but they do not suffer from a Federal Government swamped with 41,000 lobbyists working to subvert the Rule of Law and the will of We The People. Guaranteeing healthcare to EVERYONE in these United States would only work to raise the prices of healthcare for everyone, because the medical industry would charge anything they wish. This is like guaranteeing that everyone can have a masonry fireplace in their living room, or a luxury yacht in the backyard of their summer home in Florida, which will only guarantee funds for those seeming necessities. The constraints on healthcare prices comes from the limited resources of We The People, which means administrators must charge reasonable prices affordable to the least common denominator on a county by county basis. If we have a King sitting on His throne, then He pays for the healthcare of everyone in His kingdom (masters and slaves). However, without a King, then the responsibility falls upon We The People to make up the difference. Therefore, if you really want to provide healthcare to EVERYONE, then go right ahead and show us how that is even possible in the current economic environment . . .

Why do conservatives want to outlaw one thing, using the OT, yet are often so against creating mandatory programs that care for those who cannot care for themselves or for those in pain or great hardship? The latter is asked in the NT so often.

Homosexuality is an Abomination TO GOD!!! Period! Creating government programs for the poor is a great idea, so long as Sally is willing to get out there and work her tail off to pay for it. Just empty your bank account and head down to Tent City and MANY will respond to your act of charity. However, Senor Bush and Congress would much rather throw trillions of dollars away in Iraq, rather than begin the process of rebuilding America crumbling away under our feet. They would rather allow unscrupulous American employers to 'hire' illegal alien foreign nationals rather than enforce the Illegal Alien Amnesty Laws of 1986 (wiki)! In fact, Senor McCain coauthored the Illegal Alien Amnesty Bullony of 2007 (wiki) rejected by Congress last year that attempted to give the ultimate reward (citizenship) to the 20 million illegal alien foreign nationals killing and displacing US citizens from JOBS. Is that a kick in the pants or what? :0) And now MANY here want to make the same guy . . . the next president . . . Be very careful what you wish for . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[blueapplepaste]

Marcionist do not criticize me.

I guess no apology for calling me a Nazi? Can't say I'm surprised - one often has to resort to childish name calling and attacks when their own arguments/positions cannot stand up to scrutiny.

I'm with Ringo, if you can't carry on a decent mature conversation, then maybe you should just go away.

 

[Wyzaard]

Why can self hating Jews do it and you guys apologize... no one ever apologizes to the Kahanist Jews...

Ahem, everyone:

"Kahanism is a term used in Israeli political parlance to refer, specifically, to the ideology of Rabbi Meir Kahane, and, more generally, to other right-wing Religious Zionist movements or groups that share a belief in the fundamental tenets of that ideology, chief among them being the idea that the State of Israel should be governed theocratically, should accord full citizenship exclusively to Jews, and that all gentiles should be either deported or allowed to remain as resident aliens with social and economic rights, but no right to vote, provided they accept Jewish religious law.[1]

The central claim of Kahanism is that the vast majority of the Arabsof Mandated Palestine (now Israel) are, and will continue to be, enemies of Jews, and that a Jewish theocratic state, governed by Halakha, absent of a voting non-Jewish population and including Israel, the West Bank, Gaza Strip, areas of modern-day Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and even Iraq should be created.[2] Kahanism is also associated with support for violence against Jewish opponents and against the Arab population generally.


Since 1985, the State of Israel has outlawed political parties espousing Kahane's ideology as being racist, and forbids their participating in the Israeli government. The Kach party was banned from running for the Knesset in 1988, while the existence of the two Kahanist movements formed following Kahane's assassination[3] were proclaimed illegal terrorist organizations in 1994 and the groups subsequently officially disbanded. Activities by followers with militant Kahanist beliefs continue to the present day, however, as seen below. The official Kahanist website (kahane.org) has been designated as a hate site espousing racist views in which 'Arabs generally and Palestinians in particular are vilified.'[4]
"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism

Just out of curiosity, why shouldn't we dump on you?

 

[Suomipoika]

Marcionist do not criticize me.

You are funny. Funny that you never replied to my question about how do you think it is possible in your theory that the "ceremonial" and "civil" parts of the Mosaic Law can be removed just like that after solemnly pointing out how "no stroke" of the law can be removed..

You're calling one guy here a "nazi", you're calling me a heretic "Marcionist", you're calling the whole Europe "socialists idiots" (sic)... when are you going to implode, GodGunsAndGlory?

Where is the peace Jesus Christ has promised to give His followers? Or maybe your Guns are loaded with something else...?

 

[Wyzaard]

I guess no apology for calling me a Nazi?

Has someone reported him yet?

 

[blueapplepaste]

Has someone reported him yet?

I didn't. I sort of wish his posts wouldn't get deleted so they can stay up for all to see just what kind of person GGG is.

 

[Suomipoika]

I lost respect for Big Religion when the Christian Coalition came out opposed to increasing the minimum wage. I wrote them and told them that, since God loves the truth, they should rename themselves the Capitalist Coalition.

Did they explicitly, vocally and unhesitantly OPPOSE it? That's just totally, absolutely positively, flat-out SICKENING. Sorry for the essentialization, but nowhere else in the world than in the United States would conservative Christians.....

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Marcionist do not criticize me.

And enter GGG's latest straw man. My guess is he got a nasty-gram from the mod team on throwing around "Nazi" at everyone he disagrees with, so now his catch-all insult to anyone who doesn't toe his line is "Marcionist."

If you want to learn about Marcionism, here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

Which has very little to do with the topics GGG tosses that term into, but he doesn't let that stop him, of course.

 

[SallyNow]

Hi Sally:



Your query is based upon the false assumption that the USA has no programs in place for the poor, when that is not the case at all (healthcare affairs.org and reuters.com article).

No, my query is not based on the false assumptions about the USA. I know quite a bit about social programs in the USA and how they are often costing much more, and being much less effective, than similiar programs in other nations.

Why is healthcare failing in nations that see it only as a privatised commodity, but successful in nations that have it as a public-private partnership? That's the important question, and that's one that, finally, the American presidential candidates on both sides are asking

Christ says,



The poor will be with us ALWAYS no matter how many programs you create. One man will rise up early and head off to work, while the next guy rolls over and waits to be fed by another.

Well, there's an assumption that really is based on the false idea that the poor are somehow lazy.

That guy may have serious mental or physical health problems. He may have been abused as a child or have been through a terrible disaster which stripped him of his funds.

He would probably love to find a job to feed himself with, but has not been able to. Perhaps he can't afford to recieve the education he needs to find a skilled trade, something that North America in general needs more of, but for which the price of training is out of reach of many of the people who would be excellent at skilled trades.

Perhaps he has a mental illness that is being untreated or only partially treated because he only has a bare minimium of health care.

But it's much easier to assume he is lazy than to realize he's probably wants to work hard and contribute but is unable to due to the fact that life is complicated.

Some men would rather stand along the interstate holding up a “Feed me!” sign than use his time searching for a good-paying job.

Holding a "feed me" sign is horrible, degrading, and dangerous. Few people would rather do that than look for a good job. But after a few months of looking for a job and being unable to find one because they don't have a phone number where they can be reached, don't have an address they can be reached at, don't have reliable personal hygiene facilities to clean up in before going to an interview, don't even have clothes that are appropriate for a job interview, they give up.

Here you are writing about our obligations to the poor, when illegal alien foreign nationals are lining up to receive everything from taxpayer-provided county services (story) to college aid (story). Americans sent 70 Billion dollars to poor countries in 2004 (story), but you seem to think We The People are not doing enough for the poor. :0)

I do not think that. Please stop putting words in my mouth, okay?

I realize Americans are generous. What I am questioning is not America's generiousity. I am questioning the ability for the money to actually reach those in need, and wondering if doing what works well in other free, democratic republics would work in the USA, and wondering why some American conservatives are so against the idea.

As for the illegal alien proble, any person is a person. It doesn't matter their nationality. America is hardly unique in having an influx of illegal immigrants.

The idea that you want to make comparisons between homosexuality and giving money to the poor seems a bit odd from my perspective, QUOTE]

Well, it may seem odd, but it isn't. Some people want to legislate morality in one way, but not the other. Why do those who want to legislate OT law regarding homosexuality not want to legislate these laws also:

24 But when the crop comes in, give a fifth of it to Pharaoh. The other four-fifths you may keep as seed for the fields and as food for yourselves and your households and your children."

Pharaoh= government, before someone posts about how America doesn't have a Pharaoh...

9 " 'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

Poor and alien.

Poor and alien.

POOR AND ALIEN (for those who only read capslock)

Universal healthcare DOES NOT WORK for the USA, because of the same greed and lust for POWER of greedy unscrupulous men. I have lived overseas where even guest workers have universal healthcare, but they do not suffer from a Federal Government swamped with 41,000 lobbyists working to subvert the Rule of Law and the will of We The People. Guaranteeing healthcare to EVERYONE in these United States would only work to raise the prices of healthcare for everyone, because the medical industry would charge anything they wish. This is like guaranteeing that everyone can have a masonry fireplace in their living room, or a luxury yacht in the backyard of their summer home in Florida, which will only guarantee funds for those seeming necessities. The constraints on healthcare prices comes from the limited resources of We The People, which means administrators must charge reasonable prices affordable to the least common denominator on a county by county basis. If we have a King sitting on His throne, then He pays for the healthcare of everyone in His kingdom (masters and slaves). However, without a King, then the responsibility falls upon We The People to make up the difference. Therefore, if you really want to provide healthcare to EVERYONE, then go right ahead and show us how that is even possible in the current economic environment .

Other nations, free, democratic republics, are able to handle universal healthcare well. They have the same problems America has. So why is America the one that can't do it?

Why is life a blessing until it is born, at which point, keeping that child alive is seen as unimportant and unnecessary as a luxury yacht?

Why are lives seen as unimportant and unnecessary, like luxury yachts?

Why? I don't understand how someone can value a life before it is born, but afterwards, see that life as nothing more than a luxury yacht.

Homosexuality is an Abomination TO GOD!!! Period! Creating government programs for the poor is a great idea, so long as Sally is willing to get out there and work her tail off to pay for it. Just empty your bank account and head down to Tent City and MANY will respond to your act of charity.

Well, SallyNow realizes that providing programs that encourage job training, preventive health care, and healthy living quarters actually creates a better place for everyone.

Greed is an abomination also. So why is it taboo to legislate against it in the USA, but not taboo to legislate against homosexuality when the passages probably actually refer to temple prostitution?

 

[Suomipoika]

You said I couldn't quote other founding fathers on the subject, yet you were claiming that all the founding fathers supported separation of church and state, yet when I quote them saying other wise, you say they aren't relevant because they don't say something you can manipulate for your political beliefs. Not to mention your complete hypocrisy on the subject of gun control, I could quote very many of the founding fathers promoting gun control, yet you could quote only one that was at the Philadelphia convention and your some how right?

What does it matter to us what a bunch of men (freemasons and/or "deist heretics" for a large part) completely agreed on or didn't quite completely agree on hundreds of years ago anyway?

 

[GodGunsAndGlory]

What does it matter to us what a bunch of men (freemasons and/or "deist heretics" for a large part) completely agreed on or didn't quite completely agree on hundreds of years ago anyway?

Prove one founding father besides James Madison is a deist. Thomas Paine is not a founding father, so don't bother with him.

 

[Suomipoika]

Well, there's an assumption that really is based on the false idea that the poor are somehow lazy.

That guy may have serious mental or physical health problems. He may have been abused as a child or have been through a terrible disaster which stripped him of his funds.

He would probably love to find a job to feed himself with, but has not been able to. Perhaps he can't afford to recieve the education he needs to find a skilled trade, something that North America in general needs more of, but for which the price of training is out of reach of many of the people who would be excellent at skilled trades.

Perhaps he has a mental illness that is being untreated or only partially treated because he only has a bare minimium of health care.

But it's much easier to assume he is lazy than to realize he's probably wants to work hard and contribute but is unable to due to the fact that life is complicated.

Shhhhhhhsshhh Sally, you'll soon be called a "bleeding-heart".... (which is supposed to be a bad thing according to them) Just say "their lazy scum" and "he who doesn't work should not eat" and leave it at that, you'll get along a lot better with these people!

 

[Suomipoika]

Prove one founding father besides James Madison is a deist. Thomas Paine is not a founding father, so don't bother with him.

Haven't you ever heard of the "revised" "Jefferson Bible"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible --->


The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was Thomas Jefferson's effort to extract the doctrine of Jesus by removing sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists. ..............


"George Washington and masonry":

http://www.ismellarat.com/masonry.htm

 

[Ringo84]

Prove one founding father besides James Madison is a deist. Thomas Paine is not a founding father, so don't bother with him.

Does it matter? I'm a Christian, and I still believe that the Separation of Church and State is a good idea and that we're not a Christian nation.
Ringo