Conservatives and Double Standards?

[blueapplepaste]

Now onto the main subject. A difference between conservatives and liberals is that liberals make the government holy, conservatives make God and the church holy.

I'm a liberal. I'm Christian. I don't think the government is holy. There goes your theory.

The government is not something to trust with your money. Conservatives give their money to their church which do the actual work.

I didn't know that driving a Royals-Royce, having a private jet, $12k clocks, huge mansions, etc are doing God's work?

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/02/15/investigating-televangelist-finances.html

Sad little liberals give their money to the UN which is begging for money for food aid while having 1 billion for that. These leftist organization are corrupt and unreliable and don't even work.

Yeah, I mean an organization that acts to help unite the world and create a common ground for us to all stand on is such a bad thing. The sooner you realize that we are not the emperors of the world and that we don't live in a vacuum and the sooner you can get your head out of the sand and open your eyes to the world around you, you'll realize that pretty much everything you post is utter rubbish.

You leftists are statist, statism is tyranny and resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.

Satist? How so? You know much of what you say you're against, Jesus was for. You would do well to put down your broad brush and turn off Hannity, Rush, Coulter and the other crazies who come up with this garbage.

The world is not black and white, but shades of gray. You're still very young, I hope you realize this before you waste your life away with so much anger and hate and seeing as black and white. I pray that God can open your eyes and your mind to the shades of gray all around you and fill you with love and compassion. Not hate and anger, which is all we ever see from you.

 

[joebudda]

Republicans do believe it's not the government's responsibility, they just don't practice, in speech or actions most times, the personal giving that we're called to do.

Are you sure, because it seems the statistics say otherwise. Maybe you have some statistics to support your claim?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080327/news_lz1e27will.html

Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year versus $1,227).

And I don't know what you would call me, I am anti-government involvement and I have given over $100,000 to charity just this year alone.

 

[HumbleMan]

Are you sure, because it seems the statistics say otherwise. Maybe you have some statistics to support your claim?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080327/news_lz1e27will.html


And I don't know what you would call me, I am anti-government involvement and I have given over $100,000 to charity just this year alone.

Maybe you and I have different views on charity. I believe charity is actually getting involved in the lives of those who are underpriviledged, of using your hands and talents to make a better world for someone. Giving money is a good thing (and you're quite a philanthropist), but it isn't personal, and it keeps us seperated (in most cases) from knowing the people we want to help.

 

[joebudda]

Maybe you and I have different views on charity. I believe charity is actually getting involved in the lives of those who are underpriviledged, of using your hands and talents to make a better world for someone. Giving money is a good thing (and you're quite a philanthropist), but it isn't personal, and it keeps us seperated (in most cases) from knowing the people we want to help.

I would also like to point out that "government" isn't personal. It doesn't care what kind of position you are in life, it takes from you anyway, even if what it takes forces dependency on government by making ends much tougher to meet. Creating a type of viscous cycle.

Edit to add.
I believe we should all do what we can to help others. I am fortunate to have done well for myself, so I share what I can. Others have more time then I do. The point is it is us that can make the world a better place if we do what we can. Government forces its will across the board paying no attention to individual circumstances. If we as individuals did what we can then we would act with surgical precision to what we see is needed, whereas government only knows how to use blanketed measures that ends up being very inefficient.

.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Yes you do. You trust the government as if it is God. You think the government can end all struggles. You are statist. There is no difference between you, the communists, the Nazis, and the fascists. You all have trust governments and let them be tyrants.

That's a smear, and you know it.

Debate what your opponents actually say, not the words you put into their mouths.

 

[Wyzaard]

Why does it so often seem that, especially in the USA, conservatives want to put laws into effect that outlaw gay marriage, and cite the Bible for doing so, yet do not want to put into effect government programs that care for the outcasts, the meek, the sick, the children?

Because conservatives actually serve the forces of inequality; waving the bible around is just the exploiters way of distracting the exploited into unthinkingly doing their bidding.

 

[blueapplepaste]

Yes you do. You trust the government as if it is God. You think the government can end all struggles. You are statist. There is no difference between you, the communists, the Nazis, and the fascists. You all have trust governments and let them be tyrants.

Statist are the greatest threat to liberty in this country.

Your rudeness and comparing me to Nazis is noted. I am no statist. I am a Christian first. And I don't think the government is holy. Please stop with the flames. It's childish and immature.

And it's not statists that are the greatest threat to this country, it's people like you.

You found 6. Oh and look it was a Republican investigating them.

Lets talk about Obama now though, Wright has a mansion being built for his retirement, I heard it cost like 1.5 million.

The issue isn't Obama or Repubs, the issue is that you made the claim that giving money to churches is doing God's work. What Wright's mansion has to do with Obama is beyond me. If Wright is building his mansion courtesy of his congregation, then he's just as bad as those other preachers who are doing His "work" with their lavish lifestyle.

Guess you were wrong again that giving to the church is always best.

Unite the world? HOW ABOUT DISARMING THE WORLD AGAINST TYRANTS THAT ARE ALSO IN THE UN!

YES! TYPE IN ALL CAPS. IT MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT STRONGER!!! Methinks you have no idea what you're talking about. Many in the world view us as tyrants, it's all perspective. We don't live in a vacuum, you know.

Your the one insulting me and you do not know what a statist is?

I've not insulted you, but you on the other hand have definitely insulted me. I'm not the one calling someone a Nazi.

You an admitted statist by voting for Obama.

Wrong.

Obama preaches that the government can help you.

The government can help you. Police are run by the government. Fire fighters are run by the government. I get low interest student loans from the government.

Also, I have never heard of any of those people talk about statism and I don't even listen to them, I listen to Michael Savage.

He's just as bad as them. It's quite obvious that you just regurgitate what you hear from talk radio. No rational person would make the ridiculous claims that you do.

Jesus was against people burdening others, under socialism that is what your doing. The Bible says that you give charity through your family, through your church, and through individual charity. He does not say through taxes and to tyrants.

I think you're wrong. I don't think Jesus would have any problem with a collective government banding together to help those in need. And we are commanded to pay taxes in the Bible, so paying taxes, even if it helps people is not un-Biblical.

And enough with the tyranny talk, it has nothing to do with the conversation and is nothing more than a talk radio talking point.

 

[joebudda]

No rational person would make the ridiculous claims that you do.

I make many of the same claims he does. Are you saying that I am not rational? I would be more then happy to debate you on any of my views if you would like to determine who is rational or not between your position and mine?

I promise I will stick to facts, statistics, philosophy, economics, and science to support my points.

.

 

[Ringo84]

GGG, you're as wrong with this as you were about the Separation of Church and State - another issue where you were owned due to ignorance of the issue.

Yes you are statist. You do not even know what a statist is. You support socialism and socialists are STATIST. You unbeliably called me a statist like a complete ignorant leftist without knowing anything about it. Anyone who favors Laissez-faire capitalism cannot be statist. The Nazis had faith in the government, so with DEMOCRACY they elected a dictator and trusted him to end all their struggles. The fascists who opposed Laissez Faire(THIS IS FAR RIGHT NOT FASCISM) and also trusted the government too much. Then theres that Communist who were the polar opposite of laissez faire and worshiped their leaders as a god.

Do you have any clue what statism is? It seems to me that you are idly accusing BlueApplePaste of being a quote-unquote "statist" without having a clue about BlueApple's beliefs on the subject or the real definition of statism.

The rest of the world sucks. Europe is bowing down to Islam and are socialists idiots. The world is a bunch of countries posing as free countries.

That's a very easy dismissal of the rest of the world. "Well, I don't like the rest of the world's opinion of us, so they just suck". The fact of the matter is that it's been some of our actions post-9/11 which has lead to such a view of our country.

So Obama is for a free market? I think your wrong.

Then prove it.

See you are a Nazi. Michael Savage is Jewish, you just insulted a Jew. I find that very offensive because I'm a ethnic Jew. I demand an apology.

What I find offensive is that an emotional term like 'Nazi' is thrown around this forum o easily in this forum. Where did BlueApple insult Savage? Do you think that any criticism of any Jew for any reason is "offensive"? If so, you must have an incredibly thin skin - and that isn't BlueApple's fault.

Why even discuss issues on this forum if you're simply going to use the "I'm a Jew and he insulted me" card every time you're rightly criticized for your views?

Sorry that I'm insulting tyranny so much because I know you are in love with tyranny.

More assumptions about BlueApple's character and political beliefs. Your arguments seem to consist solely of insults and assumptions about a person's beliefs.
Ringo

 

[Suomipoika]

Wee-haa, got me a new signature!

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

I said your statism is no different then the Nazis.

See you are a Nazi. Michael Savage is Jewish, you just insulted a Jew. I find that very offensive because I'm a ethnic Jew. I demand an apology.

Godwin strikes again. This is your third slur in this thread...in my book, three strikes and you're out.

Jesus also said not to steal, but socialists seem to not follow that one to great.

Scripture also commands you not to bear false witness. Calling someone a Nazi simply because their views differ from yours is bearing false witness.

Sorry that I'm insulting tyranny so much because I know you are in love with tyranny.

And there you go yet again with more flames.

Grow up.

 

[HumbleMan]

I would also like to point out that "government" isn't personal. It doesn't care what kind of position you are in life, it takes from you anyway, even if what it takes forces dependency on government by making ends much tougher to meet. Creating a type of viscous cycle.

Edit to add.
I believe we should all do what we can to help others. I am fortunate to have done well for myself, so I share what I can. Others have more time then I do. The point is it is us that can make the world a better place if we do what we can. Government forces its will across the board paying no attention to individual circumstances. If we as individuals did what we can then we would act with surgical precision to what we see is needed, whereas government only knows how to use blanketed measures that ends up being very inefficient.

.

I'm not one that believes in the altruism of government. I believe that the people, us individuals, we failed, broken vessels, should make the decision to help others, to be involved in their lives.

I may have a different view on you about taxation (basically, the whole give unto to Caesar thing, which is about obedience), but I still think the problem with this country is we're lazy, selfish, and easily amused. The church didn't take care of it's duty to take care of the people, so the people looked to the government, and of course, the government gladly gives our money to others. I don't mind my tax money going to help others, as long as is accounted for and produces outcomes, but my first choice is always to be personally involved.

 

[SallyNow]

The Nazis had faith in the government, so with DEMOCRACY they elected a dictator and trusted him to end all their struggles.

Hitler was not elected as dictator. He came to power in a series of underhanded dealings.

Please, can we stick to the topic, that is, answering my questions as posed in posts #5 and #12?

 

[blueapplepaste]

I make many of the same claims he does. Are you saying that I am not rational? I would be more then happy to debate you on any of my views if you would like to determine who is rational or not between your position and mine?

I promise I will stick to facts, statistics, philosophy, economics, and science to support my points.

.

That may be. But GGG makes broad sweeping generalizations that have no basis in reality. I have no doubt that you'd stick to facts; it might be quite refreshing to have a civil conversation with someone. Clearly GGG is not capable of that.

 

[blueapplepaste]

Yes you are statist.

I said your statism is no different then the Nazis.

See you are a Nazi.

Sorry that I'm insulting tyranny so much because I know you are in love with tyranny.

So I'm a statist Nazi who's in love with tyranny? Thanks for telling me what I am and what I believe; apparently I've been mistaken my whole life. Luckily I had you to clear that up for me.

Michael Savage is Jewish, you just insulted a Jew. I find that very offensive because I'm a ethnic Jew. I demand an apology.

You have some gall to demand an apology from me. Well you certainly won't be getting one from me, especially when I didn't even throw an insult towards you or Savage. You on the other hand certainly have. But I won't be holding my breath for an apology from you.

 

[Suomipoika]

"..and the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will..."

-2.Tim 2:24-26

Oh well, who'd thought that "glorious guns" could ever launch anything "kind", "gentle" or "spirit-filled" in the first place... Well, I at least know that it is not our God who is inspiring the continuous stream of these dirty words... btw, say hi to "Dr." Savage, too! God bless your great nation!

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

I'm tired of your stupid ignorant leftists claims,

blah blah blah leftist blah blah blah commie blah blah blah Nazi. It's really, REALLY getting old.

Free market solution to Health care: Deport Illegals.
Socialists solution to health care: Give illegals health insurance and citizenship even though they are criminals.

The laws of free-market economics are what are drawing the illegal immigrants here in the first place. Deporting people simply for crossing a line on a map...what enforces those lines? Why...it's STATES. So YOU are the statist here, GGG, saying that the government should override the natural course of supply and demand in barring certain people solely on what STATE they are from.

Why can self hating Jews do it and you guys apologize... no one ever apologizes to the Kahanist Jews...

ADL gets offended: Kiss their feet.
Kahanists get offended: Crap on them.

Now we're back to the "everybody hates me because I'm a certain kind of Jew and anyone who isn't MY kind of Jew isn't a real Jew.

Statism is tyranny. Any faith and allowing the government to intervene in economic freedom and individual freedom is tyranny.

Immigrants are simply pursuing the economic freedom to sell their labor to the highest bidder. You are advocating the government intervene to stop them. Therefore, by your own definition, GGG, YOU are a statist.

 

[Ringo84]

I'm tired of your stupid ignorant leftists claims

It seems to me that the ignorant claims are coming from you - not me.

you come into every thread with this.

My heart bleeds.

You said I couldn't quote other founding fathers on the subject

Which I never said.

yet when I quote them saying other wise

Which you never did.

you say they aren't relevant because they don't say something you can manipulate for your political beliefs.

It had nothing to do with manipulation - at least on my side. It had to do with quoting founding fathers who actually, you know, had something to do with religious freedom in this country, and not random founding fathers who happened to be living at the time.

Get a DICTIONARY.

I'll take that as a NO - you don't know the definition.

you leftists

Anytime someone says "you leftists" or "The Left" or "You liberals", I shut down right away. If you can't speak without generalizations, don't speak at all.

Free market solution to Health care: Deport Illegals.
Socialists solution to health care: Give illegals health insurance and citizenship even though they are criminals.

I don't believe that proves anything about Obama.

Why can self hating Jews do it and you guys apologize... no one ever apologizes to the Kahanist Jews...

ADL gets offended: Kiss their feet.
Kahanists get offended: Crap on them.

That's another offensive comment from you: the "self-hating" tirade against Criminology.

How hypocritical and immature for you to claim offense because you're a certain type of Jew, but then turn around and offensively label another member because they don't agree with you.

If you can't be mature and respect fellow members of this forum, leave. We're all getting tired of you throwing around the "Nazi" label and hateful accusations like "self-hating Jew".
Ringo

 

[christalee4]

Why does it so often seem that, especially in the USA, conservatives want to put laws into effect that outlaw gay marriage, and cite the Bible for doing so, yet do not want to put into effect government programs that care for the outcasts, the meek, the sick, the children?

The Bible has so much on the latter, on how we must help. So why are so many conservatives against welfare, universal healthcare, and even sometimes universal education?

Why do conservatives want to outlaw one thing, using the OT, yet are often so against creating mandatory programs that care for those who cannot care for themselves or for those in pain or great hardship? The latter is asked in the NT so often.

I wonder if it is due to the recent focus on materialism in the large, conservative "mainstream" churches. The issue of reaping monetary benefits due to faith in God has been a steady mainstay in many large churches.
http://www.alternet.org/story/72539/

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1051/feature.html

For many, "prosperity Gospel" goes right along with politics that promote that Americans should only hold to their own, and reject policies that help others, as well as pretend that they care about others.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

I wonder if it is due to the recent focus on materialism in the large, conservative "mainstream" churches. The issue of reaping monetary benefits due to faith in God has been a steady mainstay in many large churches.
http://www.alternet.org/story/72539/

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1051/feature.html

For many, "prosperity Gospel" goes right along with politics that promote that Americans should only hold to their own, and reject policies that help others, as well as pretend that they care about others.

I lost respect for Big Religion when the Christian Coalition came out opposed to increasing the minimum wage. I wrote them and told them that, since God loves the truth, they should rename themselves the Capitalist Coalition.