conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

[Deborah D]

It did not come to me easy at all. It took a life crisis in my late 20's to become involved in serious introspection in my life. That eventually lead to serious practice of meditation, and later, to actually practicing Buddhism (they are not the same). Of course, that later made me rethink my hostility to Christianity, after I had some maturity and began engaging with the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh, but as of late, I am feeling that I have simply "exhausted" the spiritual potential in my Protestant upbringing (as a teen I sort of dreamed of being a monk living a life of quiet contemplation in a monastery, something that was simply impossible as a Protestant).

I really don't mean to be dogging you, but I'm concerned about what you're saying here. I can kind of see how you could possibly feel exhausted with Protestantism, but how can you feel exhausted with knowing and loving Jesus. I mean, this the goal of Christianity--not a religion, but a relationship with Him through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So many unbiblical practices that I see Christians engaged in are counterfeits for what only the Holy Spirit can do in us and through us. I think that Cessationism (the belief that some of the supernatural gifts ceased with the original apostles) has created a vacuum which is being filled with New Age and other non-Christian beliefs because the power of the Holy Spirit is being quenched. This amounts to holding to a form of religion, but denying its power.

But it's exciting to think that the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is in every Christian, working in and through us. It's the power of His Spirit.

Ephesians 1:18-22--I pray that the perception of your mind may be enlightened so you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the glorious riches of His inheritance among the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of His power to us who believe, according to the working of His vast strength.

He demonstrated this power in the Messiah by raising Him from the dead and seating Him at His right hand in the heavens — far above every ruler and authority, power and dominion, and every title given, not only in this age but also in the one to come.​

I urge you to get into His word and find out who the Holy Spirit is and how He desires to operate in your life. I think that you will be filled with all the fullness of God if you do this.

This is my prayer for you:

Ephesians 3:16-21--I pray that He may grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power in the inner man through His Spirit, and that the Messiah may dwell in your hearts through faith. I pray that you, being rooted and firmly established in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the length and width, height and depth of God’s love, and to know the Messiah’s love that surpasses knowledge, so you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now to Him who is able to do above and beyond all that we ask or think according to the power that works in us — to Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.​

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It did not come to me easy at all. It took a life crisis in my late 20's to become involved in serious introspection in my life. That eventually lead to serious practice of meditation, and later, to actually practicing Buddhism (they are not the same). Of course, that later made me rethink my hostility to Christianity, after I had some maturity and began engaging with the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh, but as of late, I am feeling that I have simply "exhausted" the spiritual potential in my Protestant upbringing (as a teen I sort of dreamed of being a monk living a life of quiet contemplation in a monastery, something that was simply impossible as a Protestant).

I almost became a Trappist. Good thing I did not. I think I would have gone berserk. I went back for retreats several times aLmost 40 years later, same guys in their same places doing their same things only now with gray hair. Wow! And all the things I have done and places I have been.

 

[FireDragon76]

I really don't mean to be dogging you, but I'm concerned about what you're saying here. I can kind of see how you could possibly feel exhausted with Protestantism, but how can you feel exhausted with knowing and loving Jesus.

Questions about the historical Jesus remain for me. I simply am uncertain what we can really know about Jesus apart from the human influence of the early church (and what we can know for certain about Jesus and what he taught looks nothing like Evangelical religion, or even Lutheranism). Therefore, practical considerations about spiritual life matter. I am a evidence-results oriented person. When I see people living a holy life, I know it. I don't need a Bible to tell me there is something holy and good about people who show love and compassion towards others, whatever their religion may be.

I am ambivalent about the spiritual experiences I have had as a Christian, too. I can replicate "spiritual experiences" with biofeedback fairly easily simply by breathing regularly and having a machine give me feedback about my physiologic state. Which means I don't know if Christian concepts of God aren't just a grid I used to understand what are actually natural experiences brought about by some psychological phenomenon, such as suggestion (after all, a religious atmosphere is highly suggestive).

If I have a belief in God now, it's more like the Quakers. I think God is in the human heart, as God always has been. But I'm more aware now of recognizing the debt I owe to non-Christian teachers I have had in the past, for giving me the gift of basic sanity in an insane world. And that came from learning mindfulness and learning to accept myself.

I mean, this the goal of Christianity--not a religion, but a relationship with Him through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

That is a religion however you frame it. My time in life is precious, keeping an open mind means I wouldn't depend on unnecessarily sharing my psychic energy with people who are steeped in ignorant or provincial ways of seeing the world. I tend to become co-dependent too much, instead of obeying my inner intuition, and my intuitions have never lead me wrong, whereas religions have in the past.

So many unbiblical practices that I see Christians engaged in are counterfeits for what only the Holy Spirit can do in us and through us. I think that Cessationism (the belief that some of the supernatural gifts ceased with the original apostles) has created a vacuum which is being filled with New Age and other non-Christian beliefs because the power of the Holy Spirit is being quenched.

Pentecostalism was created by simple, uneducated people who discovered ecstatic religion, a human phenomenon and not supernatural. The similar manifestations are found in Hindus who practice Shaktism.

In addition, I don't find the character of most Pentecostals to be people to emulate, either. I won't follow people who do not demonstrate kindness and compassion in their actions. That is what I feel in my heart is the right way to live. Not through religious ideology. So I am not interested in Pentecostal or Charismatic religion. Pentecostalism and Charismaticism is associated with religious fundamentalism and right-wing authoritarian politics. At heart I'm a counter-cultural type, that's simply who I am. I have no use for unquestionable external authorities or the worship of cultural traditionalism.

But it's exciting to think that the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is in every Christian, working in and through us. It's the power of His Spirit.

I don't think Christians have some unique connection to reality (In fact, some of them may have no connection to reality). That just seems like a God who is too small.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That being said, none of the reasons I stated have anything to do with why conservatives (or evangelicals who are called liberals by some fundamentalist groups) are protesting it. Which is basically out of ignorance or a sense of: why should your religion be in schools if ours can't?

 

[FireDragon76]

That being said, none of the reasons I stated have anything to do with why conservatives (or evangelicals who are called liberals by some fundamentalist groups) are protesting it, which is basically out of ignorance or a sense of, why should your religion be in schools if ours can't?

That might make sense they would think of self-knowledge as infringing on religion, given their pietist background, but it's not how the Framers understood religion. Otherwise you'ld end up with the absurdity that psychotherapy is somehow "religious", which is clearly absurd if you tried to apply that standard to legal matters.

No, I think this is far more like Theodosius I tearing down the philosophers academies. They want to eliminate anything that even is perceived as competition with their fragile worldview. It's like the chaplains in Dhamma Brothers objecting to mindfulness being taught in prison, because suddenly the prisoners were being empowered to be their own source of healing, instead of having to rely exclusively on chaplains and their perceived authority.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That might make sense they would think of self-knowledge as infringing on religion, given their pietist background, but it's not how the Framers understood religion. Otherwise you'ld end up with the absurdity that psychotherapy is somehow "religious", which is clearly absurd if you tried to apply that standard to legal matters.

No, I think this is far more like Theodosius I tearing down the philosophers academies. They want to eliminate anything that even is perceived as competition with their fragile worldview. It's like the chaplains in Dhamma Brothers objecting to mindfulness being taught in prison, because suddenly the prisoners were being empowered to be their own source of healing, instead of having to rely exclusively on chaplains and their perceived authority.

Some things may not be a religion, but they may have filled the power vacuum that religion once held becoming a belief system in and of itself.

I don't disagree with the narrow minded tearing down opposing ideas assessment.

 

[FireDragon76]

Some things may not be a religion, but they may have filled the power vacuum that religion once held becoming a belief system in and of itself. I don't disagree with the narrow minded tearing down opposing ideas assessment.

It fits with the Constantinian mindset, and explains the low regard for pluralism of thought as well- it's not about faith but about worldly power. People with true faith in their beliefs don't care about competition, it's only people with inauthentic faith that feel threatened by other perspectives.

 

[MayYouBeBlessed]

You really know nothing about the practice then and your comment is an example why the author Warren Smith who speaks in churches about his experience as a New Age practitioner prior to becoming a Christian was very shocked at the gullibility & total lack of spiritual knowledge or discernment in the average churches.

I read about it. Nothing wrong. Again, there's so many real and very serious issues to be worried about that nobody wants to notice.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It fits with the Constantinian mindset, and explains the low regard for pluralism of thought as well- it's not about faith but about worldly power. People with true faith in their beliefs don't care about competition, it's only people with inauthentic faith that feel threatened by other perspectives.

I can see what you're saying.

From my perspective, some elements however, I'll need to prepare for when the common shadow element gets stronger in the next couple of decades. Since it affects me directly.

 

[RDKirk]

It fits with the Constantinian mindset, and explains the low regard for pluralism of thought as well- it's not about faith but about worldly power. People with true faith in their beliefs don't care about competition, it's only people with inauthentic faith that feel threatened by other perspectives.

Constantine himself was a pluralist.

 

[bèlla]

And all the things I have done and places I have been.

I contemplated the same but was given a similar word while at the monastery. The peace and love were inviting but there were specific ways I could never glorify the Lord in there. And when I embraced His no my longing for those things (in that capacity) fell away.

Sometimes we must do as Paul said and forget.

 

[Resha Caner]

This seems to be the closest one can legally come to prayer in the schools. I think it would be easy for Christian parents to work with their kids to turn it into the real thing.

Exactly.

I don't think it's a good idea to appropriate the practices of others for our own ends just because our religious practices aren't allowed. That approach usually backfires.

For one, it might lead some to think you're saying all religions are the same - it doesn't matter what you do as long as you believe it.

Second, I wouldn't appreciate someone holding a mock Christmas celebration because it's a good excuse to party (though I know that never happens). Regardless, I don't think we should do such things either.

 

[Resha Caner]

I don't think so. These are the same folks that think a red winter Starbucks cup is a "war on Christmas". Unless they can dominate and control public discourse about peoples inner lives, they won't be satisfied. That is the real objection to mindfulness and yoga. It's the old American Puritan "haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." (H.L. Menkcen)

Nice job of whitewashing. This isn't my objection at all. If a student decided to practice MBSR during studyhall, I wouldn't support forcing them to stop. But this is not an individual student's private practices. This is a school-sponsored program. And giving them an option to decline is a "separate but equal" wolf in sheep's clothing.

They admitted the idea comes from Buddhism. So you are now advocating schools scouring the worlds religions, using science to explain why it has an effect, stripping it of religious symbolism, and incorporating it into the public schools. Hey, if it works to designate a school room as the "black rock" room and allowing students to make a pilgrimage there, do it. If it works to have teachers dress in robes, walk through the halls swinging a thurible and chanting, do it.

Whatever groovy new flavor of kool-aid is out there, I'll drink it.

So here's where we are:
1) Moral and religious considerations don't matter if something works because ... Science.
2) Moral and religious considerations don't matter if we just don't use those words.
3) Piling more responsibilities onto teachers is fine. They can handle it. It will work in all schools in all places because it worked one time when we had the experts, the funding, and the media attention focused on it. Don't worry. When all that disappears and the teacher is left to handle it alone without proper training, it will still work perfectly.
4) If American evangelicals don't like it, it must be good.

 

[Miles]

Isn't it interesting how words acquire new meanings over time? In this case, both conservative and mindfulness have connotations that are inconsistent with my formative experience. This is nothing new, of course, but it never ceases to amaze.

Mindfulness once referred to thoughtful awareness. Something that my conservative ancestors valued greatly. A mindful person isn't ruled by their passions or by petty things. They are aware of their thoughts and feelings. Being aware/mindful helps one keep things in perspective and make wise choices.

If our culture valued the older definition of mindfulness, we'd probably see fewer problems in schools and more considerate behavior all around.

 

[Halbhh]

Conservative legal group challenges 'mindfulness' in schools


On the one hand I think its strange how mindfulness has become a fad, what Ron Percer calls "McMindfulness". On the other hand, it does make conservative evangelicals seem picayune to object to something that is devoid of obvious religious content (and I don't think "connecting to the universe" is a religious concept, even if it was removed from the curriculum in response to feedback). It's almost as if their idea of being a human being never includes paying attention to anything except their Bibles and religious dogma.

I expect such reactions as objecting to McMindfulness on religious grounds is only made worse by not paying attention to the Bible, expect in a using fashion like one would in a lumberyard -- to ignore the whole, or to only pick out isolated verses to use like a resource to be bent to support a doctrine.

It's not paying attention to the Bible, see. If one pays attention to the Bible it's a personal revolution (for any and all). They get opened up.

Instead of judging their neighbor, they begin to try to love them.

 

[Resha Caner]

I really don't mean to be dogging you, but I'm concerned about what you're saying here. I can kind of see how you could possibly feel exhausted with Protestantism, but how can you feel exhausted with knowing and loving Jesus. I mean, this the goal of Christianity--not a religion, but a relationship with Him through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So many unbiblical practices that I see Christians engaged in are counterfeits for what only the Holy Spirit can do in us and through us. I think that Cessationism (the belief that some of the supernatural gifts ceased with the original apostles) has created a vacuum which is being filled with New Age and other non-Christian beliefs because the power of the Holy Spirit is being quenched. This amounts to holding to a form of religion, but denying its power.

This. And I understand it goes over better when you say it nicely rather than with my sarcasm. I'm working on that.

 

[Resha Caner]

Some things may not be a religion, but they may have filled the power vacuum that religion once held becoming a belief system in and of itself.

And this.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think it's a good idea to appropriate the practices of others for our own ends just because our religious practices aren't allowed. That approach usually backfires.

For one, it might lead some to think you're saying all religions are the same - it doesn't matter what you do as long as you believe it.

Second, I wouldn't appreciate someone holding a mock Christmas celebration because it's a good excuse to party (though I know that never happens). Regardless, I don't think we should do such things either.

I think you're getting beyond the actual situation.

From what I read, these kids are merely being given time to sit quietly in meditation. I didn't read that these kids are being led into any practice beyond that.

In the early years of my military service, we had two or three times a day "smoke breaks." Some people started smoking to have something to do in those smoke breaks, but it certainly wasn't required to to do. Some of us--like me--used smoke breaks for a "combat nap."

 

[Resha Caner]

I think you're getting beyond the actual situation.

Given the realities of a classroom, I don't think so.

From what I read, these kids are merely being given time to sit quietly in meditation. I didn't read that these kids are being led into any practice beyond that.

In the early years of my military service, we had two or three times a day "smoke breaks." Some people started smoking to have something to do in those smoke breaks, but it certainly wasn't required to to do. Some of us--like me--used smoke breaks for a "combat nap."

Very different situations. What will happen when a group of kids is left to sit quietly with nothing to do? The teacher will be held responsible for what happens, and so will eventually have to intervene and direct the students. What exactly is the teacher supposed to direct these kids to do? That won't introduce a particular world view?

Even with the adults you mentioned in your military example ... how did some of them handle it? By smoking. Is that a practice you would recommend? I understand you're not going to stop people from smoking if they choose to do so, but is that the result you think is best? For those you knew well, did you ever mention the health effects of smoking or is it a radical intervention in their lives to do that - something only fanatics do?

 

[Pedra]

The world doesn't love truth nor seeks it.

Only in a remote, decontextualized way.

Phineas Quimby (and later Christian Science) in America was the origin of alot of New Age thought. It was influenced as much by the cultural milieu of New England, and the new discoveries of Anton Mesmer. Phineas Quimby popularized the idea based on Mesmers discoveries that the mind influenced the body. There were some Asian influences on New England Trascendentalism (which later influenced religious movements like Unity), but they were heavily filtered through Orientalism (a western, not an eastern perspective) and also through American philosophies. And of course, Spiritist churches were a home grown religious phenomenon that heavily influenced the New Age, and was not at all influenced by eastern religions.

Theosophy started in England, and was more influenced by Orientalism, but interpreted through modern western thinkers, such as Charles Darwin (so they saw reincarnation as evolution rather than cyclical time), and also had an interest in liberal politics and socially progressive causes (all western influences, not eastern).

The authentic interaction with actual Asian practitioners was minimal. Most early proto-New Agers relied upon second hand accounts for the sources for their notions.

Another influence on the New Age was the Human Potential Movement, which was thoroughly western in its emphasis, and was drawing from humanistic psychology, not Asian religion.

So, the New Age movement on the whole is much more western than eastern. That's why you don't see alot of interest in the New Age in Asian countries. New Age preoccupations are shaped within a western cultural milieu, not an eastern one.



Quakers also emphasize that particular way of understanding God. That idea is not unique to Asian religions. Quakers believed that everyone has the capability to have an immediate knowledge of God through direct experience.



Buddhist is not pantheism. Buddhism is non-theistic and doesn't have creation as an important concept in its religious mythology, unlike Christianity. It is a Dharmic religion ,which means it is oriented around Dharma (Truth/Law) as the central motif, not an anthropomorphic Creator.

Found Wikipedia did ya?
Those of us who were involved in the New Age know first hand what this meditation is about & the new age practices that are being mainstreamed should not be allowed into schools. You might be too set in your opinions, but others should educate themselves and reject it.
They can check out youtube for people like Author Warren Smith, Christian Apologist Dave Hunt, Christian filmmaker Caryl Matrisciana, Author Ray Yungen
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/