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Featured conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by FireDragon76, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Christians agree on a set of core doctrines.
     
  2. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I thought parents just gave kids drugs to calm them down.
     
  3. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    It didn't come without heartache. I watched a member of our church slowly die when I visited him in the hospital on Easter. I didn't know it at the time he was going to die, but he was hooked up to a bunch of machines and dialysis and I could tell he was seriously ill and looked less like the man who had read our prayers or lectionary. And his funeral was the first I've ever been to, because my parents sheltered me from death and I haven't had many friends.

    I prayed to God for him not to die and for a while his condition improved but in the end his brain activity decreased and he was pulled off life support and allowed to die. It was too bad because I realized I hadn't really gotten to know him well enough, I had let my shyness get in the way of knowing anybody except the pastor real well.

    And he was a gay man, but I think that's the only way my church is really liberal or progressive . The pastor has only recently, in the past 4-5 years, been rethinking his attitudes about gays. Otherwise, his theology is relatively conservative, all about guilt, the stuff I went to therapy to rid myself of years ago and that I don't really need in my life anymore.

    Honestly if it weren't for the social connections, I would probably leave my church altogether. But I worry just leaving would hurt peoples feelings, people like seeing me and my partner there and they would miss us. But I'm getting tired of the dryness of the experience, it comes at a cost to my energy and liveliness, especially in a world that seems increasingly insane. It's almost like "justification by banality", and we don't live in that world anymore. We live in a very crazy country, as far as I can tell, where civility and decency were exploded in an atomic bomb.

    So yeah, I believe in yoga and meditation. It helps me keep in touch with a basic sanity. People that say its satanic or opens a door to the demonic are simply afraid of something they don't understand. Learning to meditate years ago at the Fish Lake Sangha was one of the best things I ever did, it really changed my life, and the sad thing was I gave that up because I felt that "belonging" and being "traditional" and having a "respectable" religion were so important. It was more like tossing pearls before swine, really.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  4. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    I think some people are trying to get away from the Big Pharma racket. Most Coastie types increasingly aren't into that stuff. It's the folks in Flyover Country that seem to trust the Wonder Drugs, that's why opioid addiction is out of control in rural and suburban areas.


    Meditation is alot better for your brain than using drugs, anyways. Most psych meds are nothing but placebos with bad side effects. I took alot of them in the past. Meditation is the first thing that took away my need for them, because it helped me see the crap in my life for what it was. Pills never worked that well anyways. A little acupuncture or Chinese medicine is about all I use now days.

     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 7:56 AM
  5. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Divorcing following Christ from affirming the truth about Him is not following Christ at all, but this is probably a matter best served in another thread.
     
  6. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Truth is found in life. That was the most important thing I learned from Thich Nhat Hanh's dharma talks we used to listen to out at Fish Lake. Holding to rigid views, even Buddhist ones, was a big no-no in his teaching, and I'm beginning to think he was right.

    I like that idea of a "personal relationship" better than the dogmatic religionist who insists they alone are have the Truth just because they have ancient words and texts and a good story about them. A real relationship, even if it's just with a figment of your imagination, is potentially alive to the present.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  7. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    And Christ is both the Truth and the Life.

    I don't know what a religionist is, and I don't insist that only I have the truth. There are literally billions of Christians who aren't me who confess the truth concerning our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.
     
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  8. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    But why does me (or anybody) being a "good guy" require confessing any particular doctrine about his relationship to platonic metaphysical notions of divinity?

    Jesus himself never seems to have taught such a notion, at least according to what can be known through humanistic accounts of studying the Scriptures. So why should I trust the authority of a small church in Africa to guide my life for me?

    If it would bother you less, I will identify as "non-Christian" or unorthodox. It's not sweat off my brow.
     
  9. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Who said anything about "being a good guy"? And the Creed talks about His relation to the Father. The Father is not a "platonic metaphysical notion of divinity".

    It's not "a small church in Africa", it's literally all Christian churches. That's how the Creed can function as the statement of faith on this very omni-confessional website in the first place.

    I don't frankly care what you do, as I'm not bothered by anything in the first place. It's just silly to try to present a version of Christianity where the Creed is not the accepted standard just because you personally have problems with it or can point to this or that modern sect that doesn't embrace it, when that is all wildly at variance with the consistent witness of Christian history. But do whatever you want. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  10. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    It's the background in which debates about Jesus divinity took place, and many of the Nicene Fathers wrangled Greek philosophical categories to declare what was, and was not heretical. The Nicene Creed is a symbol of that. Which is why some churches (Quakers, Baptists, Restorationists/Disciples of Christ... many Charismatics and Pentecostals of all sorts) do not require assent to a creed. They believe faith or salvation rests on something more intimate to the human person than a symbol created by men and more or less imposed on the whole known world through threat of violence.

    There are many Christians in the world who do not require assent to creeds. That is a fact.
     
  11. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Yes, and? Had they not done so in what was then the common language of cross-cultural communication, surely they would have done so in some other language. I don't see what your point is.

    To you, maybe, due to some apparent hangups with "Greek philosophical categories" for some reason. For Christians, it is a succinct statement of truth that has stood for centuries, above any and all subsequent schisms, and no matter who dissents from it.

    And these people have what to do with anything? When I want oats for breakfast, I'll ask the Quakers. When I want solid Christian theology, I'll certainly look elsewhere.

    What? You mean like the threats and accusations that got HH St. Athanasius the Apostolic exiled from his see under several Roman emperors for a total of something like 17 years?

    It's the largest single religion in the world. Of course you're going to find some groups here and there that are outliers, but that's just what they are.
     
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  12. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Active Member

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    Really? Like where? Catholics? Lutherans?
     
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    I don't understand what's so bad about Quakers. George Fox made even Oliver Cromwell stop dead in his tracks and wonder if he had the right religion.

    When Quakers came to the new world, they were the only religious group to not persecute Native Americans for their religious beliefs. They also were against slavery from the very beginning.

    One of my favorite American Protestant theologians and social activists, Abraham Muste, became a Quaker after growing up in the Dutch Reformed Church. He stood outside in the rain during the Vietnam War holding a candle in front of the White House. When somebody asked him if he thought he was making a difference, he said "I'm not doing this to change my country. I'm doing this so my country does not change me".

    He also said "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way".

    Those are words to live by.
     
  14. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven "After all this time?" Always.

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    Is that why there is a Catholic Church, an Orthodox Church, and too many to count split Protestant churches because Christians agree on a set of core doctrines? Is salvation eternal or conditional? The answer seems to depends on which Christian you ask and the version of the Bible they prefer to use.
     
  15. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Hence I didn't say ALL doctrines and teachings but CORE.
     
  16. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Active Member

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    Maybe its the sitting in silence.
     
  17. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Based upon scriptures & researching Quakers origins, beliefs etc... you think its the same?
     
  18. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    That could be what it is for sure! After all, we're supposed to loudly tell God what it is we want from him and if he doesn't give it to us right away, make sure he hears all about it the next time we go through our lengthy prayer demands, er "list" with him. And oh, just make sure he never has a chance to get a word in edgewise, because you know, if you stop talking long enough for God to speak, then surely Satan will have his chance to get in a word edgewise too! So safest bet is to keep talking and talking and talking and never stop! (And put your fingers in your ears too just in case!)
     
  19. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven "After all this time?" Always.

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    Salvation through Jesus Christ is a CORE belief of Christianity. However, that doesn't change the fact that there are Christians who are divided on whether salvation in Christ is eternally secure or not.
     
  20. Aquila0121

    Aquila0121 Brother In Christ

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    Mindfulness is simply the putting into practice practices that help you to silence the endless chatter of the mind. Many don't realize why they are so full of anxiety. It's because their mind runs like a television left on in the background. It just chatters away as you work, drive, read, and even when engaged in conversation with others. And people are so used to it... they think it's just normal. They've never experienced mindfulness.

    Most go through their day, part of their mind on something important they have to do later. Or perhaps part of their mind rehashing a conversation they had and what they should have said, could have said, or did say. Or, what the other person said or did. For the countless majority, most have a part of their mind endlessly engaged in thinking about something that has happened or something that will happen. If those things are negative or undesirable, they suffer anxiety. When talking to others, or even when reading posts, they listen or read to gather a "response". They don't stop to truly listen for purely the sake of "understanding" the other person. As a result, we often short change our kids who want to spend time with us. Our mind is only half engaged in the moment. Mindfulness is silencing this chatter.

    When you experience it for yourself... you realize how noisy the mind really is. You also realize how the brain is processing experiences, fears, etc. and how these really aren't your actual thoughts! LOL You begin to sift through the preprogrammed responses, thought patterns, and emotions that we take on ourselves or are taught to us. By silencing the endless chatter of the brains processing... we experience... this moment. Most live focused on yesterday or what is going to happen tomorrow. Few truly live in the moment. It's hard to. But there are times when being in the moment is of great value. Especially if one is trying to focus, relax, heal, or just... breathe free of stress and anxiety.

    Imagine being on your back porch. You've gotten your mind still and silent. You see the trees, you see the garage, you see the lawn, you see the car in the driveway... but as you look at them your mind isn't saying, "Tree, garage, lawn, car, …." Instead... you see these things without labels, words, meanings, or preconceived perceptions. These things... just are. That thing growing with leaves, just is. They have no label or meaning assigned. You're in the moment. You feel the breeze. You breathe and you can actually feel the life in your body. You see the lights in the sky, they just are. And when your love walks out to say hi, he or she just is. When they speak, you follow the words, and you understand what they are saying... without any knee jerk response. You soak up their meaning, their intention, their understanding. And communication becomes crystal clear.

    It's so hard to describe. I liken it to that experience when you fly. The plane takes off and you peer outside the window and you see the airport, the city, the buildings, the cars, even the little people walking down the street. They almost look like very micro-detailed toys. Detailed, real, moving, but the height and distance leaves them a bit... undescript. When in the moment of mindfulness... everything around you looks that way. It's like you're now sitting, standing, or walking in the midst of those very detailed toys. LOL

    Man... It's hard to explain a different mode of consciousness. LOL But it's relaxing. It's calming. You feel... real. And you realize that you've spent hours, days, weeks, or even years... walking around in the illusion you've convinced yourself is reality. You begin to realize... you're a jerk. Yes, for years you've thought you were the "good guy" but certain people just don't get you. No. You see yourself for who you are. And you can become overwhelmed with shame and a sense of needing to change things. You watch your kids without imposing the mental illusion of what you "think" about them. You see them at that moment, in that moment, … as they are. Flaws and all. You realize that you've spent years worrying about things... most of which never happened. And those that did, you had no control over anyway... so why did you waste so much time worrying??? I actually saw my sons hair for the first time in years one day. I wanted to cry. I've always just processed, "Son's hair is blonde." It only was expressed when relevant. However, I was in a moment of mindfulness and he come around to play in the backyard. I saw him running in the sun, and his hair... that hair was so real. I saw the strands, the sun glisten through them. I saw his excitement and joy as he played tag with his little sister. I then saw her... a little lady. Her hair, beauty, joy. And I realized how much of a "dream" or "illusion" I have walked around in for years. It's like you assign meaning to everything like you own it. Like you know everything about it. You file it. We do this with people we love... and fail to even get to really know them. And you move on with your day and the tasks at hand. Responding almost mechanically, in the way the script you've imagined should be. But... it's all some illusion we've created. It's not reality. The moment is so beautiful. And experiencing the moment with those you love is something beyond words. You realize, this was almost natural when you were a small kid and knew nothing about people or the world. But at some point, in the teens, you entered a dream state. And though awake... you've been living the pattern of what you think is or should be. And... sometimes mindfulness unlocks years of this state of mind.

    It's crazy stuff. It's really hard to explain. lol
     
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