conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

Deborah D

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You are incredibly patient. Perhaps it is gifting on display. :)

Bless you! You just gave me a good laugh. I needed that. There are some pressing problems my family is dealing with right now. I just lost my dad and my job may be ending this month, so things have been weighing heavily on my heart. Laughing helps relieve the pressure.

But to answer your question, as you know, I'm sure, patience is a fruit of His Spirit, by which I seek to live moment-by-moment.
 
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Deborah D

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How easily we get distracted and divided. The great commandment is "Love on another as I have loved you." Everything else needs to be put in that context.
You are completely correct about this! This is a good reminder that we are to speak the truth in love.
 
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bèlla

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Bless you! You just gave me a good laugh. I needed that. There are some pressing problems my family is dealing with right now. I just lost my dad and my job may be ending this month, so things have been weighing heavily on my heart. Laughing helps relieve the pressure.

I’m sorry for your loss and the stress with the job. Have you placed a prayer request on the site? If not, please do.

What I’m observing is beyond patience. You are correct but your response and continuation shows a heart for the subject. Even when the replies are unkind. You hang in there.

The soul at stake has your attention. You’ve counseled and exhorted too. That’s God at work through your hands. Keep this in mind in weeks to come.

God bless and keep you. :)
 
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FireDragon76

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So, what is your definition of fundamentalism?

Wikipedia presents an adequate overview:

Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

The main things I see are hostility towards modern ways of understanding the world, and biblical literalism and belief the Bible is verbally inspired. That is why I pointed out that I am not a fundamentalist.
 
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Deborah D

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I’m sorry for your loss and the stress with the job. Have you placed a prayer request on the site? If not, please do.

What I’m observing is beyond patience. You are correct but your response and continuation shows a heart for the subject. Even when the replies are unkind. You hang in there.

The soul at stake has your attention. You’ve counseled and exhorted too. That’s God at work through your hands. Keep this in mind in weeks to come.

God bless and keep you. :)

Such kind words! Thank you again. God has given me compassion. I was hoping that this was showing through. You have encouraged me beyond words.

May He bless you and yours mightily!
 
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Deborah D

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Wikipedia presents an adequate overview:

Fundamentalism - Wikipedia

The two main things I see are hostility towards modern ways of understanding the world, and biblical literalism and belief the Bible is verbally inspired.

Thank you for giving me YOUR definition. When you say "verbally inspired," you mean that God gave the scriptures word-for-word?
 
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FireDragon76

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Thank you for giving me YOUR definition. When you say "verbally inspired," you mean that God gave the scriptures word-for-word?

Yes. No clergy in historic mainline Protestant churches teach that... only in fundamentalist churches.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Conservative legal group challenges 'mindfulness' in schools


On the one hand I think its strange how mindfulness has become a fad, what Ron Percer calls "McMindfulness". On the other hand, it does make conservative evangelicals seem picayune to object to something that is devoid of obvious religious content (and I don't think "connecting to the universe" is a religious concept, even if it was removed from the curriculum in response to feedback). It's almost as if their idea of being a human being never includes paying attention to anything except their Bibles and religious dogma.

Hello. School isn't a place to learn eastern meditation, it's a place to learn reading, writing and arithmetic.

Eastern meditation can be had on people's own time, on the parents discretion and dime - not the states.

We can have different points oof view, but school should be a place of learning - not of religion. If you want Eastern meditation try a private school that teaches it for your children.
 
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Deborah D

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Yes. No clergy in historic mainline Protestant churches teach that... only in fundamentalist churches.
This is a pretty broad statement you're making here and an overgeneralization. You can't possibly know what every member of the clergy has taught in the past.

I went ahead a looked at the Wikipedia article you supplied the link to and this a portion of that article.

The first formulation of American fundamentalist beliefs traces to the Niagara Bible Conference and, in 1910, to the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, which distilled these into what became known as the five fundamentals:[16]
I would have to verify this, but I would think that every mainline Christian denomination has subscribed to these beliefs at some point, and they probably still do. These are pretty basic Christian beliefs. I've been involved in many different denominational churches over the years, including Lutheran. I actually went through confirmation in a Lutheran church when I was in school way back in the day.

The thought occurred to me that you are intent on labeling me as a fundamentalist so that you can then discount what I say. Isn't this a form of bigotry??
 
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Pedra

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Don't trust somebody who is so insincere... he has an agenda. Horowitz is a neo-conservative Jew who wants to manipulate your religious sensibilities for political ends. That's not somebody who genuinely cares about you and the integrity of your beliefs, that's somebody that wants to exploit you.
That's called slander.
Why must you say he is a Jew? sounds anti-Semitic.
Horowitz isn't neo- Conservative , but the radical left likes to slander & smear him when they can though.

By your posts you have an agenda it appears.
 
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FireDragon76

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This is a pretty broad statement you're making here and an overgeneralization. You can't possibly know what every member of the clergy has taught in the past.

I went ahead a looked at the Wikipedia article you supplied the link to and this a portion of that article.

The first formulation of American fundamentalist beliefs traces to the Niagara Bible Conference and, in 1910, to the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, which distilled these into what became known as the five fundamentals:[16]
I would have to verify this, but I would think that every mainline Christian denomination has subscribed to these beliefs at some point, and they probably still do. These are pretty basic Christian beliefs.

Look up Harry Emerson Fosdick's Sermon, "Shall the Fundamentalists Win" some time- he gave it almost a century ago. Not all Christians have accepted such a notion as "basic" or fundamental Christian beliefs.

BTW, this guy is from an Independent Baptist Church but he actually reads the whole sermon, just as an example of the sort of objections that mainline Protestant churches had to fundamentalism. I probably don't agree with his religious beliefs but I appreciate him interacting with those ideas seriously and doing a good delivery of Fosdick's sermon. Many fundamentalists or evangelicals just villify our way of being a Christian without seriously interacting with it:


I've been involved in many different denominational churches over the years, including Lutheran. I actually went through confirmation in a Lutheran church when I was in school way back in the day.

Was it LCMS or ELCA? The two are very different in their ethos and tone. The LCMS are closer to being fundamentalist. In fact I would consider C.F. Walther, the founder of the LCMS, to be a personality who was more obsessed about perceived doctrinal purity the finer points of the Law, such as mercy and justice. That ethos runs through that denomination's identity to this very day.

The thought occurred to me that you are intent on labeling me as a fundamentalist so that you can then discount what I say. Isn't this a form of bigotry??

I've interacted with fundamentalists' ideas. At one time I was much closer to that perspective as a Christian, years ago. What you would have to tell me is nothing I haven't heard before. They are the same old arguments, for the most part. Being open-minded does not mean having to consider every idea as equally valid, but considering a belief carefully in light of what we can know about the world, and considering the implications of those beliefs ethically in terms of our duty to seek justice for all.
 
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Deborah D

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Was it LCMS or ELCA? The two are very different in their ethos and tone. The LCMS are closer to being fundamentalist. In fact I would consider C.F. Walther, the founder of the LCMS, to be a personality who was more obsessed about perceived doctrinal purity the finer points of the Law, such as mercy and justice. That ethos runs through that denomination's identity to this very day.
I honestly don't remember, but the mainline denominations have split over the years as some splinter groups have become more liberal.

I've interacted with fundamentalists' ideas. At one time I was a much closer to that perspective as a Christian, years ago. What you would have to tell me is nothing I haven't heard before. They are the same old arguments, for the most part.

You've told me that I don't know you and all that you've been through, and I agree. But you have to understand that no one else has walked the spiritual road that I as an individual have walked, so I have a story to tell that you have never heard before.

No one except Jesus was with me during some very tough trials that have involved betrayal by family, death of loved ones (my mom, my husband, and last month, my dad), and the loss of health and home. My faith has been tested in the furnace of affliction, and Jesus has brought me through each and every trial. I hesitate to mention my trials because there are Christians around the world who have been through so much more than I have.

So, you really haven't heard it all before. But I just hope and pray that you will know Jesus even more intimately than I have.
 
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FireDragon76

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I honestly don't remember, but the mainline denominations have split over the years as some splinter groups have become more liberal.



You've told me that I don't know you and all that you've been through, and I agree. But you have to understand that no one else has walked the spiritual road that I as an individual have walked, so I have a story to tell that you have never heard before.

No one except Jesus was with me during some very tough trials that have involved betrayal by family, death of loved ones (my mom, my husband, and last month, my dad), and the loss of health and home. My faith has been tested in the furnace of affliction, and Jesus has brought me through each and every trial. I hesitate to mention my trials because there are Christians around the world who have been through so much more than I have.

So, you really haven't heard it all before. But I just hope and pray that you will know Jesus even more intimately than I have.

Personal stories may be deeply meaningful to you but they aren't a reason for me to agree to a religious ideology that has alot of baggage that I could never accept in good conscience, such as being opposed to feminism, gay people's rights, or the conclusions of modern science. That's the hangup for me.

And FWIW, I'm on the liberal end of my congregation's perspectives. There are actually a few older people that are six day creationists in my congregation. If I lived in the northeast or west coast, I'd probably be happier, but in the south, fundamentalist ideas are widespread, even in otherwise liberal denominations. So, I rarely go to church now days because my church is full of old people and they want to hear a message that doesn't offend them, no matter how much I think it is simplistic and naive.

I've visited old, sick, and dying people at my church... so it's not like I have a heart of stone. But I don't share their simplistic beliefs, necessarily (neither do I argue with them). But I do try to connect with people and give back to my religious community. But I have my limits. And this kind of "accept Jesus as your personal savior and every bit of the Bible or else" does not help me find a safe place as a Christian.
 
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FireDragon76

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Quakers and some Baptists don't have creeds and creeds aren't a part of some liberal mainline congregations or denominations even today. When I visited the local UCC church, they didn't have one, and I've been to Anglican services that had modern affirmations of faith, and avoided the creeds.

I think being a Christian is about following Jesus, not metaphysical propositions.
 
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FireDragon76

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I guess he's saying he doesn't share the fundamental beliefs with Christians.

As Jesus said at his trial, "You say so". You hear what you want to hear. That says more about you than it does me.

I don't believe in creeds on principle. What matters is what you have in your heart and what you do with your hands- all of Jesus parables and sayings point to that. The real Jesus was not so ego-driven he had to have an exclusive club with in-group/out-group dynamics. That's something human beings made up because they had limited understanding of his message.
 
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