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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

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rjs330

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Karl Marx's Philosophy of Communism never condoned killing.
In fact Marx was against it.

You are absolutely wrong on this. Marx was a mean vile human being. Here is just a small taste of what he was like.

Karl Marx Was a Pretty Bad Person

The Anti-Marxists Internet Archive Official Blog: Marx and Engels quotes on War, Terror, and Genocide

Marx may not have killed anyone himself, but his philosophies have by the millions. His statements were very clear what he believed in. And the fact is communism has killed far more people and enslaved more than the Nazis. I'm not down playing Nazis of course just pointing out communism is worse.
 
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GondwanaLand

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You are going to sit there and claim that the dude who shot five cops in Dallas was upset about blm?
No, I'm going to sit here and say that's what your source says. Don't like it? Get a different source that says something less vague.

That's incredible. The guy was pro-blm
Your source doesn't really say that one way or another. Very vague

As for the other, the guy may have been a sovereign citizen, that would not preclude him from being blm.
Not supported by your source or any credible source I've ever been able to find
 
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iluvatar5150

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If the British and American troops fighting in Europe in WWII, knew that one day their grandchildren and great-grandchildren would, in their own countries, be called Nazis for believing the same things they did, they would have laid down their arms and gone home.

A lot of the white American soldiers were vile racists who treated their fellow black soldiers far worse than they treated the white Nazi POWs they captured. The racism was bad enough that it became a diplomatic issue, with Britain telling the US to get their troops in line and not export that stuff to England, which didn't have that sort of anti-black racism.
 
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Maren

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Five Dallas Officers Were Killed as Payback, Police Chief Says

Gunman Who Ambushed Baton Rouge Officers Searched For Police Home Addresses

Also, @TLK Valentine , the week isn't over yet, and the side you decided to align yourself has tied and may end up winning the body count by one.

Your link doesn't support your claim. The Dallas article specifically states, "Officials said they had found no evidence that the gunman, Micah Johnson, 25, had direct ties to any protest or political group, either peaceful or violent." His Facebook page did show some support (but no ties) to the New Black Panther Party, but even if you want to count that, it still doesn't tie him to BLM.

With the Baton Rouge shooting, again, it appeared to be the work of a lone gunmen and not tied to any group, even per your article.

If it wasn't you who has claimed that we have to look at the person who ran his car into the crowd as the actions of an individual, then forgive me; but it seems ironic that you want to blame true lone actors on the BLM -- despite no ties -- but that the White Supremacist groups bear no responsibility when one of their members commits a terrorist act.
 
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KCfromNC

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Progressives like to point out that killing Nazis is an American tradition, but you guys seem to forget that so is killing Commies. Maybe you should be careful with your wishes.
We'll keep that in mind the next time a group tries to violently seize control of the means of production here in the US. Until then, try not to confuse "doesn't agree to far right political goals" with "communist".
 
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Rion

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Your link doesn't support your claim. The Dallas article specifically states, "Officials said they had found no evidence that the gunman, Micah Johnson, 25, had direct ties to any protest or political group, either peaceful or violent." His Facebook page did show some support (but no ties) to the New Black Panther Party, but even if you want to count that, it still doesn't tie him to BLM.

With the Baton Rouge shooting, again, it appeared to be the work of a lone gunmen and not tied to any group, even per your article.

If it wasn't you who has claimed that we have to look at the person who ran his car into the crowd as the actions of an individual, then forgive me; but it seems ironic that you want to blame true lone actors on the BLM -- despite no ties -- but that the White Supremacist groups bear no responsibility when one of their members commits a terrorist act.

It wasn't me, and I have no idea why you would think that.
 
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Rion

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We'll keep that in mind the next time a group tries to violently seize control of the means of production here in the US. Until then, try not to confuse "doesn't agree to far right political goals" with "communist".

Such weak bait, lately. Hope your health is okay.
 
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Yonny Costopoulis

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A lot of the white American soldiers were vile racists who treated their fellow black soldiers far worse than they treated the white Nazi POWs they captured. The racism was bad enough that it became a diplomatic issue, with Britain telling the US to get their troops in line and not export that stuff to England, which didn't have that sort of anti-black racism.
I see RDKirk post. I think he black in USA military. His post say military is much better today. So good things happen in USA military. :clap:
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Karl Marx's Philosophy of Communism never condoned killing.
In fact Marx was against it.

Aside from the aspect @TerranceL mentioned regarding Marx's stance on violence, even if we want to go with the fact that "he later changed his stance", the reality is, communism has always gone hand in hand with violence because in order to make it work, you need a very heavy handed government.

Marx's theories were such that maybe they sounded good on paper (to some people, certainly not me), however, they require the vast majority of a population to be like-minded and stay like-minded after they realize exactly what the system entails.

Communism falls flat on its face in a matter of months without heavy handed government.

Here's the reason why...while people may have been on board with the ideas, and even voted communists into power initially, it doesn't take long for people to sour on the idea once they realize:

"hey, wait a minute, I'm busting my hump everyday as an engineer, that guy tearing tickets at the movie theater has the exact same lifestyle I do, as does the guy who I know is faking illness who I see with his friends at the coffee shop every day. Well, if my lifestyle is going to be the same as their no matter what I do...then I don't need this stress, I'll just tear tickets at the theater or fake an ailment and go hang out with those guys"

If too many people do that, obviously the whole system breaks down because you still need engineers and all of the highly-skilled professions to exist for society to work (you need someone to fix power lines when they're down, to work in hospitals, etc...), A society can't function with everyone working the easy jobs and nobody working tough or high-skill jobs.

So, the government has a few options, it can either start incentivizing the more demanding jobs (meaning they're straying from the roots of what communism's about), or they can send in people with rifles to say "hey, we know you were an engineer before and we know you're capable of working, so we're not going to let you work at the movie theater or sit around at the coffee shop all day...back to work at the power plant!"

Where capitalism (even with some of it's flaws) creates a race to the top due to the more demanding and highly-skilled positions equating to a better lifestyle, communism creates a race to the bottom because when every position creates the same quality of life, the easy low-skill jobs are the most desirable.

A good working example of the differences & outcomes of each system on an apples-to-apples basis would be to look at some side by side pics of East & West Germany when they were still divided.

Same people, both recovering after a post-war era, similar demographics, etc...

Within a few years, East Germany looked like every other eastern bloc dictatorship (crumbling buildings, poorly maintained roads, burnt out cars on the side of the road, armed soldiers on street corners, etc...), West Germany's economy was rebounding, industry was coming back, the cities looked active and vibrant... ...and like with so many other examples, you had people willing to risk their own lives to get from the communist side to the capitalist side.
 
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szechuan

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You are absolutely wrong on this. Marx was a mean vile human being. Here is just a small taste of what he was like.

Karl Marx Was a Pretty Bad Person

The Anti-Marxists Internet Archive Official Blog: Marx and Engels quotes on War, Terror, and Genocide

Marx may not have killed anyone himself, but his philosophies have by the millions. His statements were very clear what he believed in. And the fact is communism has killed far more people and enslaved more than the Nazis. I'm not down playing Nazis of course just pointing out communism is worse.

Criticism from people who have little to no education on Marx and just like to demonize him. Sorry. But I trust well known Philosophers and Historians who understand history better then the ones who just like to take things out of context and pick parts of history just to Demonize them.

"Marx may not have killed anyone himself, but his philosophies have by the millions."
You can say the same with Jesus/God/Allah and Friedrich Nietzsche.
They Both had good intentions yet people did horrible things in there name by like always taking things out of Context and not understanding what they meant.
 
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szechuan

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Communism falls flat on its face in a matter of months without heavy handed government.

That's not what Marx ever wanted. He felt like this is where Humanity would of led.

Regardless of what your thoughts on Marx was, the Communist Manifesto is by far one of the most important Philosophical Books, as It talks about Capitalism more then Communism.

I disagreed with Karl Marx on the Solutions to Capitalism as a whole (I still agree with him with some parts), however his Criticism of Capitalism which is what the majority of the "Communist Manifesto" actually is, was completely sound and Capitalism back then was fraught with Human Abuses during Marx era.
 
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