Conservative commits suicide following backlash for harassing a drag queen

[Kenny'sID]

This principal instigator later took his life. Testimonies about his character talked of the young man being a kind and thoughtful individual.

"Kind and thoughtful" to a huge fault? if I'm understanding this correctly, as in, he felt so bad about what he'd done he committed suicide. Or he couldn't handle the fallout of people berating him for this.

Either way, this man was so thin skinned he had to have severe issues, and as far as I'm concerned, any action like this by someone who is that off balance, should never even be considered a qualified example of a normal person, to, in this case, bring on such questions as the op poses here. We simply don't base important questions that may lead to important decisions on a case/individual so far from the norm as this man seems to be.

I'm not real confident I expressed my point well enough there... hope so.

It's also possible the full story could reveal something quite different than we are privy too. IOW, something doesn't seem quite right, but I do realize this is all the info we have thus far.

 

[paul1149]

You need to be aware of this because it affects your judgment. If you have a right-wing political persuasion, you will reflexly blame a situation on the left

I blamed nothing on the Left here. I said the tactics of that group reminded me of the Left. Perhaps I should have said American Left.

 

[Quartermaine]

1.) I'm not sure what kind of protesting was being done. Were they simply standing outside with signs? Were they peaceful or were they obnoxious.

I believe in everyone's right to protest peacefully without being attacked for it.

However, I don't see progressives feeling the same. The only people they believe deserves any amount of freedom is themselves.

We see this in how they attack others. The Christian bakery, for instance, was pretty much sued out of existence. And this is what they are about. They have gotten a teenagers scholarship to Harvard revoked because they didn't like something he said on Facebook and when they found out he was granted a scholarship they called and wrote letters until the scholarship was revoked. In incident after incident they are going after people's livelihoods for saying things the progressive left doesn't agree with - while at the same time happy to spout the most venomous hatred toward those who don't believe as they do.

I think this behavior from the left needs to end. People are either free to follow their faith however they see fit or free to voice their opinion on various topics or we live under tyranny... The left is scary because they are happy for tyranny so long as it's them being tyrannical.

That said, the right isn't always innocent either so a balance must be found.

I would be considered a Conservative Christian Libertarian politically (for the most part), and I dont believe holding signs is the way to change hearts and minds, although their been a time or two I've wanted to "protest" something, it's never been over people's personal lives.

I do think where a nation's children are concerned, we should be very concerned over recent pushes for transgender sex changes and hormonal suppression in prepubescent children. That to me is classic child abuse, especially considering that 90% of "transgender" prepubescent children who are allowed to go through puberty naturally will grow out of it or otherwise stop being gender confused therefore to disallow a normal puberty is to abuse a child. Anytime you can use preventative care over massive surgery we should be, for the sake of the patient, and disallowing a child to go through a normal puberty is opting for massive surgery over potentially helpful non-surgical preventative care. (and my faith in Christ or the Bible doesn't even enter into that stance)

So of course there are many many factors to consider whenever you decide whether or not a thing requires a "protest" of any kind, and I don't necessarily think running around anywhere with a sign is helpful at all..

But with any issue there are always two sides and I believe a total shut down on free speech is detrimental to society, regardless of whether that speech seems appropriate to your own mind.

Massive efforts to harass people (in this case to death) because they protested anything (whether you agree with them or not) beyond a peaceful counter protest is tyrannical behavior and will result in nothing good.

Links to descriptions and videos of the incident have been posted in this thread already. Please make use of them.


That aside your post contains numerous false claims. the author of the OP has expressed the desire to focus on the topic. May i suggest you fact check your post.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Links to descriptions and videos of the incident have been posted in this thread already. Please make use of them.


That aside your post contains numerous false claims. the author of the OP has expressed the desire to focus on the topic. May i suggest you fact check your post.

I'm staying on topic, the topic being when it's reasonable to protest something, and whether we feel protesting is a legitimate means of getting your point across.

My point was there are times people's "personal life" crossover into issues of public interest, such as child abuse would qualify.

I don't need to fact check my point of view. Feel free to start your own thread though: The Controversial Research on 'Desistance' in Transgender Youth

 

[Nithavela]

Is "90% of children grow out of feeling transsexual" also one of your opinions that doesn't need to be fact checked, or do you have anything to back it up with?

 

[dzheremi]

There are some people in the world (and any one of us could be one, depending) who, in their zeal to do what is right, don't stop to think about their ultimate goal and how they can hurt that by being too extreme. Or they confuse the goal itself with the means, and think that if they don't present themselves in an extreme fashion then they are somehow not being as dedicated as they should be. Maybe this is a type of religious "virtue signalling" that applies to conservative people, like the Afghan man I saw pull up outside the pharmacy yesterday with the gigantic "Ya Allah" decal on his car that covered the entire back window in overly ornate Arabic calligraphy. He would've been no less a Muslim and presumably no less committed to his religion if he had either not had the decal, or even just had a smaller one, and no doubt the vast majority of Muslims wouldn't go that far to signal to the world that they are Muslims. But I bet, because I know the Christian equivalent well, that having it writ large so that everyone could see felt pretty darn good. He was really doing something with that decal, I'll tell you what. I gave him a wide berth as he walked past me into the building. It reminded me of how the Palestinian-owned grocery and restaurant I had occasionally enjoyed with my Coptic friends back in Albuquerque had the Basmala (in Arabic, of course) printed out in huge letters and hung up over the longest wall in the building, over the deli counter. As I would find out later, we stopped going there because Coptic people were suddenly banned from that establishment when my friend tried to go there only to be told by the owner that what "you people" (Copts) did to one-time Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi (the Muslim Brotherhood candidate who was forced out of his position as leader of the country by the military coup that put the current Gen. El Sisi in power) was a crime, and as a result we were no longer welcome in his establishment.

Anyway, it shouldn't escape anyone's notice that while Jesus Christ in the Bible commands that people fulfill the great commission, the Bible also contains passages like the following: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." (Matthew 23:15) No doubt many people who have read this think that it is an excellent warning to others, but might fail to see how it applies to their own actions. Again, I'm just sad that a young person took his life when reforming his attitude, while not exactly easy, would've been a much better alternative.

 

[FireDragon76]

Drag queen story time hour sounds like fun. People have been dressing in drag for entertainment purposes for centuries. I think American-style evangelicalism needs to get over itself.

 

[Not David]

I think given that the kids were really upset by the confrontation, so were the parents, the drag queens, and those protesting - everyone upset. Then it spilled out the doors and into social media. His party was upset, the library was upset - the principal protagonists committed suicide. Is that not enough to measure whether or not it was a successful strategy?

I would suggest that some benefits are better than others, particularly if you are seeking to influence people to your views...although I acknowledge you say you don't care if they believe you or not..... which makes me wonder why you bothered

I won't lose some sleep if some don't want to believe, but I am sure I will influence others. So it depends on the reason for the protests: Was it to change people's mind there at the library or to send a message that those events won't be tolerated?

That the person committed suicide led me to believe they were not prepared for the backlash.

 

[Not David]

Drag queen story time hour sounds like fun. People have been dressing in drag for entertainment purposes for centuries. I think American-style evangelicalism needs to get over itself.

The protestor was a gay atheist

 

[Nithavela]

The protestor was a gay atheist

Citation please.

 

[Quartermaine]

I'm staying on topic, the topic being when it's reasonable to protest something, and whether we feel protesting is a legitimate means of getting your point across.

My point was there are times people's "personal life" crossover into issues of public interest, such as child abuse would qualify.

I don't need to fact check my point of view. Feel free to start your own thread though: The Controversial Research on 'Desistance' in Transgender Youth

your point of view is your point of view. I am suggesting you fact check your claims.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The best way to indoctrinate people into your faith is to do so either while they are still young and lack the ability of critical examination or during a time of great emotional stress.

Yep.

I think part of what's made these specific church bodies that I've experienced different and special is that their congregations are *way* more highly educated than average and, as such, are a lot more thoughtful and critical about knowledge, teaching, rhetoric, and religious dogma.

This is a perfect example of not understanding a thing about Christianity.

The statement wasn't specific to Christianity, though it does reflect a lot of what I've seen in Christian churches. According to Pew, only about 6% of Christians are converts:
Islam gains about as many converts as it loses in U.S.

 

[dzheremi]

Wow. 22% of ex-Muslims in the U.S. are Christian? !المجد للثالوث القدوس

 

[Nithavela]

Yep.

I think part of what's made these specific church bodies that I've experienced different and special is that their congregations are *way* more highly educated than average and, as such, are a lot more thoughtful and critical about knowledge, teaching, rhetoric, and religious dogma.

That might be why they are having trouble converting people. I think that their attempts of conversion are less for the goal of converting others and more about reaffirming their own faith.. possibly subconsciously.

 

[Nithavela]

Wow. 22% of ex-Muslims in the U.S. are Christian? !المجد للثالوث القدوس

That's not really an amazing number, considering the percentage of christians in the entire population. Over half of them predictably leave religion behind altogether.

 

[Not David]

Citation please.

"Wilson Gavin, 21, was openly gay but vehemently committed to conservative." theaustralian.com

It does not talk about religion though.

 

[Paidiske]

as far as I'm concerned, any action like this by someone who is that off balance, should never even be considered a qualified example of a normal person, to, in this case, bring on such questions as the op poses here. We simply don't base important questions that may lead to important decisions on a case/individual so far from the norm as this man seems to be.

I'm not so sure about that. Zoii's original question was whether incidents like this should lead us to question our formation of the young folk in our communities. That apparently someone "off balance" got to this point without being given appropriate support does raise questions about the way we form, support and mentor our youth. If our faith communities can't deal with people who are not "the norm," then we've no business involving ourselves in the lives of vulnerable young people.

 

[Nithavela]

"Wilson Gavin, 21, was openly gay but vehemently committed to conservative." theaustralian.com

It does not talk about religion though.

Thank you.

Does sound like an immensely conflicted person.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If our faith communities can't deal with people who are not "the norm," then we've no business involving ourselves in the lives of vulnerable young people.

Of course we do. We do the best we can, and my point remains, no one can likely ready anyone for an individual who is that far from the norm. A psychiatrist might be hard pressed to figure out how to deal with such a person, but that doesn't mean we drop education overall because of one unique situation.

 

[Paidiske]

Of course we do. We do the best we can, and my point remains, no one can likely ready anyone for an individual who is that far from the norm. A psychiatrist might be hard pressed to figure out how to deal with such a person, but that doesn't mean we drop education overall because of one unique situation.

My point remains that we certainly can equip ourselves to work with emotionally vulnerable people, and we should. (Being suicidal isn't that far from the norm, really). But too often churches don't. We throw unqualified people into leadership and ministry positions and then are surprised when things don't go well.