Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[tall73]

But which one, for there are many which claim that. Many have come in the name of the great I AM.

If you continue to have questions on who the true Creator is that may be beyond the scope of this thread. Feel free to read the Bible.

 

[Leuko Petra]

...What they did not say, and which you tried to add, is that the gentiles should go on to keep the Sabbath sign which was a sign with the Israelites.

Isaiah 56:

Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Isaiah 56:2

Context - the Everlasting Gospel:

Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Isaiah 56:1

Which you fail to hear... having given up on that glorious light that shone all along the path.

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Isaiah 56:6

What covenant? The Everlasting Covenant...

Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. Isaiah 56:7

and yet you refuse to see that even in the New Testament this was being fulfilled...

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Acts 13:44

For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. Acts 13:47

How sad I am for you and for your wife... lost.

 

[tall73]

As they [and we] should be. It is just that, "For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." [Romans 10:2]

Now you have not clarified this point. So let's do so. Do you think we should keep the whole law, or just the ten commandments?

Because vows, and the temple ,etc that were spoken of in Acts 21 were not in the ten.

 

[tall73]

Yet circumcision is required, even that which was from the beginning, that of the heart - Deuteronomy 10:16; Jeremiah 4:4, etc

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings. Jeremiah 4:4

Yes, but the Pharisees in Acts 15 were not pushing that kind. They wanted the old snippy.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Yes, but the Pharisees in Acts 15 were not pushing that kind. They wanted the old snippy.

Which is why I cited Romans.

 

[tall73]

Isaiah 56:

Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Isaiah 56:2

Context - the Everlasting Gospel:

Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Isaiah 56:1

Which you fail to hear... having given up on that glorious light that shone all along the path.

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Isaiah 56:6

yes, you have very well demonstrated that in the OT one joined himself to the covenant with Israel.

That was not required in Acts 15 of the gentile believers in Christ.

Do you similarly regard this verse?

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Are you suggesting gentile Christians need to bring their sacrifices to the temple altar?

Jesus did regard the actual sanctuary as a house of prayer for all nations, and cleansed it.

 

[tall73]

Which is why I cited Romans.

Does Romans change what the Pharisee party wanted in Acts 15?

Nope.

They wanted the old snippy.

They vetoed the old snippy and the law being placed on gentiles.

 

[tall73]

How sad I am for you and for your wife... lost.

Your opinion is noted. I entrust myself to another judge.

 

[tall73]

We are still waiting for your answer.

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {MR760 19.2}

If someone comes to you with an objection to an Adventist pillar doctrine and they present Scriptures for you to look over, do you entertain their arguments, and examine the Scriptures, to see if they could be true? Or do you follow her advice and not receive them?

 

[Leuko Petra]

yes, you have very well demonstrated that in the OT one joined himself to the covenant with Israel.

That was not required in Acts 15 of the gentile believers in Christ.

Do you similarly regard this verse?

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Are you suggesting gentile Christians need to bring their sacrifices to the temple altar?

Yes, but again, what are the sacrifices of God, where the altar?

The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psalms 51:17

I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for [it is] good. Psalms 54:6

The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD [is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever: [and] of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 33:11

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name. Hebrews 13:15

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 2 Timothy 4:6

 

[Leuko Petra]

Your opinion is noted. I entrust myself to another judge.

"...Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in the dark and wicked world below. It was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the City, as all the wicked world which God had rejected...."

Reject His Law, the Ten Commandments, and His messenger... even as Herod had done.

 

[tall73]

Yes, but again, what are the sacrifices of God, where the altar?

The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psalms 51:17

I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for [it is] good. Psalms 54:6

The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD [is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever: [and] of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 33:11

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name. Hebrews 13:15

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 2 Timothy 4:6

So you are more than willing to spiritualize away offerings brought to an altar in God's house (though Jesus referred to this when cleansing the actual sanctuary), but you want to apply the sabbath and the covenant with Israel literally?

All you have demonstrated is that before one joined themselves to God through joining the covenant people, and joined themselves to the covenant with Israel.

Acts did not require that of the gentiles.

Nor have you found your text that shows Paul instructing gentiles to keep the Sabbath.

Yet we have
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[tall73]

"...Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in the dark and wicked world below. It was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the City, as all the wicked world which God had rejected...."

Reject His Law, the Ten Commandments, and His messenger... even as Herod had done.

Actually she was talking about those who rejected the Millerite movement.

The shut door you know. And while she did renounce a fully shut door she never renounced the notion that those who heard Miller and rejected his message had the door shut on them.

The issue there was not the ten commandments.

It was not long after the passing of the time, in 1844, that my first vision was given me. I was visiting Mrs. Haines at Portland, a dear sister in Christ, whose heart was knit with mine; five of us, all women, were kneeling quietly at the family altar. While we were praying, the power of God came upon me as I had never felt it before.

Ellen White was not a sabbatarian herself at the time of her first vision. Bates didn't write his sabbath tract until 1846.


I am afraid you found the wrong specific vision to apply to me. I was not alive in Miller's time. However, I freely reject the notion that God held people accountable for not accepting the false message of Miller.

That is off topic to this thread.

For those interested in an extended discussion, they can find it here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7407543/

 

[Leuko Petra]

We are still waiting for your answer.

Simple, I reject them, not receiving them, having already examined the doctrines of Jesus and tested according to the Law and to the Testimony first, otherwise I would not be Seventh-day Adventist [not beginning as such], and having so done, came to the conclusion, led of the Holy Spirit that the "Pillars" are sound, and immovable, set by God in prophecy. They which think to assault them, fight against God and His building, not mine. Also consider examining the word "receive".

Did you know the Bible speaks the same?

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

For why should we turn unto fables and commandments of men, that have turned from the truth, even "turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness"...

Ballenger rejected the Word of God and the also the testimony given under the power of the Holy Spirit in manifold demonstration which directed to the scriptures. Yet I would venture to say you think it was not the Holy Spirit, and thus you then would have to ascribe it to some other spirit, and thus confound the Spirit of Christ, with antichrist [there are only two spirits in the world] - the surest way to be on the road to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

It would be no different, if any man, even one claiming to be Christian, came to me saying he could "prove" from scripture that homosexuality was ok by God, or that witchcraft, sorcery and spiritualism were fine under certain guidelines, etc and whatever. Already having known from the scriptures it was not so. They too gather a mass of scripture together, and assault the Pillars... do you receive their words?

How childish these pharisaical games and questions of traps, and how easily overcome by the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[Leuko Petra]

Actually she was talking about those who rejected the Millerite movement...

Oh read it again...

"This light shone all along the path...", even unto the City itself, which speaks of all the Advent people.

"...They fell all the way along the path one after another, until we heard the voice of God like many waters, [Ezekiel 43:2. Joel 3:16. Revelation 16:17.]..."

 

[Leuko Petra]

Here is the end tall73.

 

[tall73]

Oh read it again...

"This light shone all along the path...", even unto the City itself, which speaks of all the Advent people.

"...They fell all the way along the path one after another, until we heard the voice of God like many waters, [Ezekiel 43:2. Joel 3:16. Revelation 16:17.]..."

All the advent people were those of the ADVENT movement. Ie Millerite.

Read it fine the first time.

 

[tall73]

Simple, I reject them, not receiving them, having already examined the doctrines of Jesus and tested according to the Law and to the Testimony first, otherwise I would not be Seventh-day Adventist [not beginning as such], and having so done, came to the conclusion, led of the Holy Spirit that the "Pillars" are sound, and immovable, set by God in prophecy. They which think to assault them, fight against God and His building, not mine. Also consider examining the word "receive".

Understood loud and clear. You will not in fact entertain biblical arguments against Adventist pillars.

Did you know the Bible speaks the same?

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

For why should we turn unto fables and commandments of men, that have turned from the truth, even "turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness"...

The difference is Paul recommended the scriptures for teaching and correction, yet you reject arguments from them if they go against Adventist interpretation.

Ballenger rejected the Word of God and the also the testimony given under the power of the Holy Spirit in manifold demonstration which directed to the scriptures. Yet I would venture to say you think it was not the Holy Spirit, and thus you then would have to ascribe it to some other spirit, and thus confound the Spirit of Christ, with antichrist [there are only two spirits in the world] - the surest way to be on the road to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Ballenger appealed to Ellen White to provide him answers from the scriptures and instead she wrote to the bretheren saying God informed her he was in error, and appealing to their experience in the Advent movement.

It would be no different, if any man, even one claiming to be Christian, came to me saying he could "prove" from scripture that homosexuality was ok by God, or that witchcraft, sorcery and spiritualism were fine under certain guidelines, etc and whatever. Already having known from the scriptures it was not so. They too gather a mass of scripture together, and assault the Pillars... do you receive their words?

How childish these pharisaical games and questions of traps, and how easily overcome by the Holy Spirit of God.

Is it a trap to ask you about your method of interpretation?

You need only say whether you reject presentation of Scripture if they go against the pillars. You have now admitted such.


Your reference to "also the testimony given under the power of the Holy Spirit in manifold demonstration"
shows that you are putting faith in the EXPERIENCE of the Adventist pioneers. You have accepted their experience, and therefore will not entertain scriptural arguments against the doctrines.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Simple, I reject them, not receiving them, having already examined the doctrines of Jesus and tested according to the Law and to the Testimony first, otherwise I would not be Seventh-day Adventist [not beginning as such], and having so done, came to the conclusion, led of the Holy Spirit that the "Pillars" are sound, and immovable, set by God in prophecy. They which think to assault them, fight against God and His building, not mine. Also consider examining the word "receive".

Did you know the Bible speaks the same?

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

For why should we turn unto fables and commandments of men, that have turned from the truth, even "turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness"...

Ballenger rejected the Word of God and the also the testimony given under the power of the Holy Spirit in manifold demonstration which directed to the scriptures. Yet I would venture to say you think it was not the Holy Spirit, and thus you then would have to ascribe it to some other spirit, and thus confound the Spirit of Christ, with antichrist [there are only two spirits in the world] - the surest way to be on the road to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

It would be no different, if any man, even one claiming to be Christian, came to me saying he could "prove" from scripture that homosexuality was ok by God, or that witchcraft, sorcery and spiritualism were fine under certain guidelines, etc and whatever. Already having known from the scriptures it was not so. They too gather a mass of scripture together, and assault the Pillars... do you receive their words?

How childish these pharisaical games and questions of traps, and how easily overcome by the Holy Spirit of God.

You've convinced me that it is time to throw away the Ellen White books that somebody put in my mail box.

 

[bugkiller]

"...Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in the dark and wicked world below. It was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the City, as all the wicked world which God had rejected...."

Reject His Law, the Ten Commandments, and His messenger... even as Herod had done.

Not one single thing in your post is Bible based. It is based one religion.

bugkiller