Confession ...

[~Anastasia~]

chapter 1
Orthodox Daily Life
A. The Sign of the Cross

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/guidech1.pdf

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Thank you for that.

I chose the sign of the cross to mention to my husband, because while he will certainly associate it with the RC church (although it is not limited to that), from what I can learn, I see the Cross, the Trinity, and the two natures of Christ.

Unassociated with anything else, I am at a loss to see how it can be offensive on its own.

He did at least stop for a moment and think about it, and agreed.

All I would ask is the same thing I am doing now. Instead of looking at a whole grouping of things (like the Baptist doctrine for example) and tossing it all out because I don't agree with part, it seems only reasonable to consider each element on its own merit. As I said, I learned to be much more careful with Scripture from the Baptist church than I was ever taught in any Pentecostal church. The only problem comes when you stop and say that is ALL there is, and remove God Himself from the equation.

So I reject the errors, and embrace the good. I don't know ... it seems the most reasonable thing to me.

 

[Tangible]

Thought you might like to see a video we showed at the beginning of our Sunday service this past week.

Don't Judge Too Quickly - YouTube

Funny! And makes a good point. Totally appropriate for Facebook, CF and maybe an adult bible study class ...

... but I would die of embarrassment if someone played this during the Divine Service!

(Of course, we don't have any screens in our sanctuary anyway. )

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thought you might like to see a video we showed at the beginning of our Sunday service this past week. They aren't both the same.

I remember seeing the cat one on TV and thought it was hilarious, if a little macabre.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Funny! And makes a good point. Totally appropriate for Facebook, CF and maybe an adult bible study class ...

... but I would die of embarrassment if someone played this during the Divine Service!

(Of course, we don't have any screens in our sanctuary anyway. )

Yeah, there are a few bits of subject matter in there I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with in church. I wondered if they all made the cut for tv, but then again I've seen some really bad commercials.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Thank you for that.

I chose the sign of the cross to mention to my husband, because while he will certainly associate it with the RC church (although it is not limited to that), from what I can learn, I see the Cross, the Trinity, and the two natures of Christ.

Unassociated with anything else, I am at a loss to see how it can be offensive on its own.

He did at least stop for a moment and think about it, and agreed.

All I would ask is the same thing I am doing now. Instead of looking at a whole grouping of things (like the Baptist doctrine for example) and tossing it all out because I don't agree with part, it seems only reasonable to consider each element on its own merit. As I said, I learned to be much more careful with Scripture from the Baptist church than I was ever taught in any Pentecostal church. The only problem comes when you stop and say that is ALL there is, and remove God Himself from the equation.

So I reject the errors, and embrace the good. I don't know ... it seems the most reasonable thing to me.

What more could anyone ask?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Don't even MENTION anything related to the RC church!

My husband was a Baptist pastor before converting. He really struggled with it and often found himself called out on the carpet. He was a very kind man but when he got angry people would usually get quiet as he was a very large man with a booming voice.
The most angry I ever saw him was directed toward a group of Roman Catholics.
There was a protestant event and he was invited to council new converts after the altar calls. The speaker was talented at what he was doing and made a point that Catholics were not really saved because they hadn't said the sinner's prayer and therefore were not born again. I think this was about the point my husband began getting angry but he sat there silently in his anger. I knew my husband well and was pretty sure his pop-off valve was about to fail.
After the altar call they had about 80 who had responded being divvied up between various pastors. My husband volunteered, "I'll take all the Catholics." And everyone seemed happy that he'd taken those 'hard cases'.
So off to a room goes my husband with 18 teenage Catholics in tow. I was sheepishly still setting in the gymnasium with the other wives and pastor's kids
a good 150 feet from the room my husband was closing the door to.
I don't know why he bothered closing the door as it sounded like he has a megaphone. He asked them what words they spoke at their Confirmation. I didn't hear their replies. He asked them what being Born Again meant. I did not hear their replies. He then asked a final question quite loudly, "What in the **** are you doing here?" followed by telling them they needed to go to their priest and tell him what they'd done this evening along with a lecture about doubting the works of God in their lives.
The door opened and 18 teenage Catholics exited sheepishly followed by my husband. As everyone had heard it, the main speaking thought he should chastise my husband but soon discovered it was a poor decision as he got an earful about the stupidity of causing youngsters to doubt their faith in Christ. My husband did not get invited to the next years event. He did get a thank you phone call from the local parish priest.

 

[Tangible]

I loved Rev Randy before hearing that story. Now I adore him! That's just so great!

 

[MoreCoffee]

My husband was a Baptist pastor before converting. He really struggled with it and often found himself called out on the carpet. He was a very kind man but when he got angry people would usually get quiet as he was a very large man with a booming voice.

The most angry I ever saw him was directed toward a group of Roman Catholics.

There was a protestant event and he was invited to council new converts after the altar calls. The speaker was talented at what he was doing and made a point that Catholics were not really saved because they hadn't said the sinner's prayer and therefore were not born again. I think this was about the point my husband began getting angry but he sat there silently in his anger. I knew my husband well and was pretty sure his pop-off valve was about to fail.

After the altar call they had about 80 who had responded being divvied up between various pastors. My husband volunteered, "I'll take all the Catholics." And everyone seemed happy that he'd taken those 'hard cases'.

So off to a room goes my husband with 18 teenage Catholics in tow. I was sheepishly still setting in the gymnasium with the other wives and pastor's kids
a good 150 feet from the room my husband was closing the door to.

I don't know why he bothered closing the door as it sounded like he has a megaphone. He asked them what words they spoke at their Confirmation. I didn't hear their replies. He asked them what being Born Again meant. I did not hear their replies. He then asked a final question quite loudly, "What in the **** are you doing here?" followed by telling them they needed to go to their priest and tell him what they'd done this evening along with a lecture about doubting the works of God in their lives.

The door opened and 18 teenage Catholics exited sheepishly followed by my husband. As everyone had heard it, the main speaking thought he should chastise my husband but soon discovered it was a poor decision as he got an earful about the stupidity of causing youngsters to doubt their faith in Christ. My husband did not get invited to the next years event. He did get a thank you phone call from the local parish priest.

I like him more and more. Not many Baptist pastors would say something like ...

Thanks for the story.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

My husband was a Baptist pastor before converting. He really struggled with it and often found himself called out on the carpet. He was a very kind man but when he got angry people would usually get quiet as he was a very large man with a booming voice.
The most angry I ever saw him was directed toward a group of Roman Catholics.
There was a protestant event and he was invited to council new converts after the altar calls. The speaker was talented at what he was doing and made a point that Catholics were not really saved because they hadn't said the sinner's prayer and therefore were not born again. I think this was about the point my husband began getting angry but he sat there silently in his anger. I knew my husband well and was pretty sure his pop-off valve was about to fail.
After the altar call they had about 80 who had responded being divvied up between various pastors. My husband volunteered, "I'll take all the Catholics." And everyone seemed happy that he'd taken those 'hard cases'.
So off to a room goes my husband with 18 teenage Catholics in tow. I was sheepishly still setting in the gymnasium with the other wives and pastor's kids
a good 150 feet from the room my husband was closing the door to.
I don't know why he bothered closing the door as it sounded like he has a megaphone. He asked them what words they spoke at their Confirmation. I didn't hear their replies. He asked them what being Born Again meant. I did not hear their replies. He then asked a final question quite loudly, "What in the **** are you doing here?" followed by telling them they needed to go to their priest and tell him what they'd done this evening along with a lecture about doubting the works of God in their lives.
The door opened and 18 teenage Catholics exited sheepishly followed by my husband. As everyone had heard it, the main speaking thought he should chastise my husband but soon discovered it was a poor decision as he got an earful about the stupidity of causing youngsters to doubt their faith in Christ. My husband did not get invited to the next years event. He did get a thank you phone call from the local parish priest.

We were cut from the same cloth.

Memory Eternal.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Kylissa I did not read every post, before this. Maybe I have already put something here.

But I am thinking of how Paul says, "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

So, I see that Biblical confessing and forgiveness is mutual, with "forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you."

And, by the way, we all are commanded to forgive, "even as God".

So, as we mature in Jesus we become able to forgive lovingly and freely, being "tenderhearted" with the ones we forgive.

And as examples, we ourselves confess to others > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) We do not try to show ourselves superior by expecting others to confess to us while we do not confess to them. But the example leader takes the lead in doing what we all need to do

All of us in Jesus have Jesus in us making us able to forgive like He does (Galatians 4:19, Galatians 2:20, 1 Corinthians 11:1, 1 John 4:17). And He in us makes us honest to confess the real truth about ourselves and humble to seek each other's healing prayer >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

So, James directs us to have mutual confession with mutual prayer for us to be "healed". And each of us is ordained, then, to so minister.

I understand that "healed", here, can mean "healed" of whatever in our character makes us able to sin and suffer. And it includes how God's love heals us together with Him, instead, so we are more in character how God's love is, in us (Romans 5:5).

So, Kylissa, it is important that we do not get stuck at "only" forgiving, but we pray for one another to be "healed" of whatever makes us able to sin, and "healed" together with God in us > "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) We become "healed" to become more and more perfectly "one spirit with" the LORD Himself

As much as we are "one spirit with" Jesus in us, He makes us strong against sinning and He shares with us His own immunity almighty against sin-sick emotional trouble. And Jesus says, "'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29) So, Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart" > He makes us also humble and gentle in love > "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2) So He changes our nature to make us naturally loving.

So, what we are confessing is not only about what is on our list of things not to do! We are dealing with how we are relating in oneness with our Father, or not, and how we are being "tenderhearted" or not. We are praying to be "healed" into being "one spirit with" Jesus so we are loving like He loves and we are fragrantly pleasing to our Father (2 Corinthians 2:14-16) in His love's "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4)

So, our "focus" is not "maybe" really on our own accounts of do's and don'ts being done or not done, but more and more we are mainly concerned about if we are becoming like Jesus (Colossians 1:28-29) < helping each other in this, like Paul our example has done > 1 Corinthians 11:1) . . . and loving like Jesus and pleasing to our Father like Jesus is. And we confess and pray about what keeps us from this . . . even things that might not be forbidden, but still are keeping us away.

And this takes God examining us and correcting us. In our prayer we seek His examination and correctional healing, which is so fruitful > Hebrews 12:4-17.

But Galatians 6:1 says, "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted."

So, our Father uses us to restore one another, not only to forgive Jesus in His resurrection was "a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45). And He in us makes us also life-giving, like this. So, Christ in us shares with each of us His own grace sufficient for being able to so love and help each other, Kylissa

God bless you; it is good to see you Bill

 

[cerette]

Eh, maybe I should not have posted that. I admit, I spent years being upset with the Baptist church because when I was 12 years old, I made an appointment with a pastor at a church and went in. I wanted some answers about God.

I always was funny about that kind of thing. In a few cases I have brazenly just gone to "the top" in a few denoms, etc. and now looking back I'm surprised people made time for me, but they always did.

But I made an appointment with the pastor of a Baptist church, spent time in a 2-hour interview, doing more talking about what I thought than questioning, as I recall. I had some ideas, and I guess I wanted them confirmed.

I DO think God was working in me, from childhood.

But he seemed kind of amazed, said God was with me, invited me to come to church and "say the prayer" and so I did. He baptized me, and that was that.

I actually still love that man, so many years later. But the church wasn't set up for someone like me, and I slipped through the cracks.

Now I am not really sure when I was "saved". But I am concerned that I went through decades of my life, with the "assurance" that I had done all that was needed, even though I never read the Bible, never went to church, and prayed only when I got myself in a tight situation, with no real faith.

I am afraid of what would have happened if I had died during those years. Seeing as how I really didn't believe in God after I was indoctrinated at the university, I don't see how I could have been "saved".

So yes, I had hard feelings about the Baptist church because of that, after I REALLY cried out to God one day, and from that time I was changed and I KNOW He is real.

Still, I didn't know any other church, so that's the one I chose when God made it clear I needed to go to church. But with Him working in my life, it wasn't really very long before I began to bump against their doctrines. I still know I learned from them to carefully search the Bible, to submit every doctrine to Scripture, and to test all things. They taught me that.

But between my early problem of getting shuffled aside, my issues with their teaching against what I learned in my own walk, and then (and now) the rigidity of my husband in discarding things without testing them ... I'm sorry. I'm a little upset from time to time. Maybe I should not have posted that comment.

Kylissa,
I'd like to recommend that you (and your husband) focus on one doctrine, study it and come to an understanding of it, then move on to the next one. I fear it might be "too much" to have lots of doctrines in the air at the same time.
God bless your studies.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hi, Kylissa I did not read every post, before this. Maybe I have already put something here.

<snip>

So, our Father uses us to restore one another, not only to forgive Jesus in His resurrection was "a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45). And He in us makes us also life-giving, like this. So, Christ in us shares with each of us His own grace sufficient for being able to so love and help each other, Kylissa

God bless you; it is good to see you Bill

Thanks, Bill, I appreciate your post very much.

You've given me some good things to think about, and I want to reflect on them more along with the Scriptures you gave when I have more time.

I'm most especially interested in the idea of forgiveness and healing that you mentioned, I've been thinking on this some. But more importantly, you tied that back to Christ, and the importance of us becoming more like him. I really appreciate that. I think you're right, and I want to reconsider everything in that light.

Thank you again, so much. God bless you too!

 

[~Anastasia~]

My husband was a Baptist pastor before converting. He really struggled with it and often found himself called out on the carpet. He was a very kind man but when he got angry people would usually get quiet as he was a very large man with a booming voice.
The most angry I ever saw him was directed toward a group of Roman Catholics.
There was a protestant event and he was invited to council new converts after the altar calls. The speaker was talented at what he was doing and made a point that Catholics were not really saved because they hadn't said the sinner's prayer and therefore were not born again. I think this was about the point my husband began getting angry but he sat there silently in his anger. I knew my husband well and was pretty sure his pop-off valve was about to fail.
After the altar call they had about 80 who had responded being divvied up between various pastors. My husband volunteered, "I'll take all the Catholics." And everyone seemed happy that he'd taken those 'hard cases'.
So off to a room goes my husband with 18 teenage Catholics in tow. I was sheepishly still setting in the gymnasium with the other wives and pastor's kids
a good 150 feet from the room my husband was closing the door to.
I don't know why he bothered closing the door as it sounded like he has a megaphone. He asked them what words they spoke at their Confirmation. I didn't hear their replies. He asked them what being Born Again meant. I did not hear their replies. He then asked a final question quite loudly, "What in the **** are you doing here?" followed by telling them they needed to go to their priest and tell him what they'd done this evening along with a lecture about doubting the works of God in their lives.
The door opened and 18 teenage Catholics exited sheepishly followed by my husband. As everyone had heard it, the main speaking thought he should chastise my husband but soon discovered it was a poor decision as he got an earful about the stupidity of causing youngsters to doubt their faith in Christ. My husband did not get invited to the next years event. He did get a thank you phone call from the local parish priest.

Thank you for sharing that story. I can especially admire a man who stands for his convictions even if the face of opposition and at potential cost to his reputation.

You were and are a blessed woman. May The Lord be close to you and comfort you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Kylissa,
I'd like to recommend that you (and your husband) focus on one doctrine, study it and come to an understanding of it, then move on to the next one. I fear it might be "too much" to have lots of doctrines in the air at the same time.
God bless your studies.

I think maybe you are right, Cerette.

While on the one hand, I see how intertwined and inseparable these ideas are in the end, surely I can break them down at the start. It has been a major challenge to me to keep so many things in mind. On the other hand, he has read the Bible more than I have. But I find he is like me - if I mention a "controversial" verse, he often insists the Bible does not say that. Then he is not happy if I show him it does. (I never do it in a condescending way though. I am not about proving myself right over him. I never "saw" them before either.)

 

[Mama Kidogo]

We were cut from the same cloth.

Memory Eternal.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

I've kinda noticed that except he just yelled at the screen and you'll actually post it.

 

[stan1953]

I'd prefer it if there were only one faith icon. But it is what it is.
I spend the majority of my Orthodox life of Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria and we served in the Congo. Now I'm in Florida so it seemed like a bit too much of a trip to church. I'm currently of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.
Eastern does not denote location anymore just as Greek does not denote in Greece exclusively and Russian does not denote in Russia. They denote specific traditions.
So if you read me using words like Pope vs Patriarch and diocese vs jurisdiction, know it's an African thing. I'm still getting used to the toilet being in the house and not swatting mosquitoes while upon it. Luxury is nice.

I've always thought the title 'Metropolitain' of the RO is a cool title. Pope is ho'hum, I guess because I was RC. Primate is a little better but, no offense, seems a little redundant as all men are primates.

 

[stan1953]

My husband was a Baptist pastor before converting.

No offense intended, but how do you CONVERT if you are already a Christian?

 

[stan1953]

#3058 Thou shalt not dance.
#6723 Thou shall not drink wine or strong drink except in secret.

Same ones as the Pentecostal's had when I was saved, except for the Italian churches, which allowed these.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

No offense intended, but how do you CONVERT if you are already a Christian?

That's a fair question but I'll pass on answering it publicly.
I'll say this: He did not feel that he just changed churches and style of worship. He came seeking to be baptized.

 

[stan1953]

That's a fair question but I'll pass on answering it publicly.
I'll say this: He did not feel that he just changed churches and style of worship. He came seeking to be baptized.

OK well that is a totally different can of worms.
Thanks.