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Confession ...

~Anastasia~

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The Roman Catholic Church is composed of 23 Churches: the Western or Latin Church and the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches.
There are also a number of denominations which refer to themselves as Catholic but do NOT adhere to all of the RCC doctrine. The following URL may be of interest to some: The Facts and Stats on 33000 Denominations: World Christian Encyclopedia (2001, 2nd edition)

Thanks for the link - that was very helpful. I could have used that diagram at the bottom, LOL. I have basically worked it out for myself (except that I didn't know a couple of things but I got most of it right) - but it took me some time to arrive at it.

The info on all the many denoms is amazing - but discouraging too to think the church is THAT shattered. And I found surprises as well - that the Anglicans are so separate, and that the Methodists are under Holiness churches.

Thank you for the info.
 
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stan1953

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Oh, no, no I meant the pastor.

No, his pastor he was under for a long time, basically pointed out "error" all over the church body. Which now that we are looking for a church, and especially since I'm interested in going to different kinds of churches, is a real problem.

We went to a good Foursquare as our last home church, but there are none here. Though honestly, his former pastor would denounce them too. I started out checking out the non-denoms around here, but they are most of them not suited to us at all.

It's just making it hard, because anything that remotely reminds him of an RC church makes him suspicious. I asked him to try to separate things and look at them individually. Like the sign of the cross - that bothered him, but really, what is it that seems unbiblical or wrong about it? That kind of thing, if that makes sense.

He's just been heavily prejudiced against everyone. I don't fault him. He's trying to adhere to sound doctrine and truth. It's just hard to un-hear some of the prejudices of his former pastor.

OK, thanks for clarifying. Foursquare is a good denom but of course every local body has different people and quirks. We are all human and you will have a very hard time if what you are ONLY looking for is spiritual or social compatibility.
I went to a Foursquare churches here and in Vancouver for almost 25 years and then went back to the same one I had been at here and it was totally different. I didn't stay long as my wife didn't like it there.
IME you have to ask God where He wants you to be then stick to it. I pray you find a church soon.
Jesus may not change but as humans we do. Remind your husband to focus on Him and NOT people.
 
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stan1953

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Thanks for the link - that was very helpful. I could have used that diagram at the bottom, LOL. I have basically worked it out for myself (except that I didn't know a couple of things but I got most of it right) - but it took me some time to arrive at it.
The info on all the many denoms is amazing - but discouraging too to think the church is THAT shattered. And I found surprises as well - that the Anglicans are so separate, and that the Methodists are under Holiness churches.
Thank you for the info.

You're more than welcome. Again don't be discouraged about how PEOPLE get it wrong, ALL believers are still part of the ONE body of Christ, and IT is not bound by denominations or cultures.
 
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~Anastasia~

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OK, thanks for clarifying. Foursquare is a good denom but of course every local body has different people and quirks. We are all human and you will have a very hard time if what you are ONLY looking for is spiritual or social compatibility.
I went to a Foursquare churches here and in Vancouver for almost 25 years and then went back to the same one I had been at here and it was totally different. I didn't stay long as my wife didn't like it there.
IME you have to ask God where He wants you to be then stick to it. I pray you find a church soon.
Jesus may not change but as humans we do. Remind your husband to focus on Him and NOT people.

Good points. There was a church I much loved here, but the pastor has retired, and most of the people I knew have gone. It's not the same. My husband doesn't want to go there because the pastor is new - I think he sees him as "inexperienced" though he has been with the church for many years and served as youth pastor.

I'm not even looking for spiritual compatibility. There are a few things I really don't want spiritually, and that does cut out a large portion of the churches around here (most are a single denom). As far as socially, I tend to fit in easily. :) The social "feel" of the place is actually very important to my husband, as is the doctrine. I'm trying to please HIM in a church.

We've been mostly visiting for 4 years. I'm tired ... I want a home. I want to be involved again. I want a family.

I believe God led me to each church I was a member of before. I also believe He directed my path quite often when visiting. I'm just not finding that to seem to be the case anymore, so I don't quite know what to do.

I do have a thread on here about that, and have gotten a lot of good advice. I'm trying to go to two services every Sunday morning, hoping to find something sooner, and in the meantime taking opportunities to talk to my husband about beliefs and give him information about church history and so on. I don't really know what the purpose of the past 4 years has been, but I think we are involved in a process. God willing, hopefully we will be in a church soon.

Thanks for the encouragement. :)
 
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MoreCoffee

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OK, now I'm going to ask an extremely ignorant question, I suppose ...

That means that not all who call themselves "Catholic" (with the big "C") and use the faith icon that you use are the same either?

Are there doctrinal differences? I thought all Catholics were Roman Catholics.

That might explain some of the things I've been told that don't mesh perfectly.

It means that all are Catholic and believe (as well as teach) what is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church but it does not mean that all have identical liturgical practices. It means that most use the faith icon that I use, but some Catholics use a generic "Christian" icon for their own reasons. Aesthetically I much prefer
Catholic.gif
over
Christian.gif
.

There are no doctrinal differences although there are some differences in emphasis on some matters and some variations in vocabulary.

God be with you sister Kylissa.
 
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~Anastasia~

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It means that all are Catholic and believe (as well as teach) what is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church but it does not mean that all have identical liturgical practices. It means that most use the faith icon that I use, but some Catholics use a generic "Christian" icon for their own reasons. Aesthetically I much prefer
Catholic.gif
over
Christian.gif
.

Ah, ok, thank you.

I kind of wish the generic Christian cross looked differently. I like a lot of the other styles better, but of course we're supposed to mean something by the one we choose. I debated non-denom, but people will most likely make assumptions about that as well.

There are no doctrinal differences although there are some differences in emphasis on some matters and some variations in vocabulary.

That could be the reason then that things were not always lining up exactly with what I was told.

God be with you sister Kylissa.

And with you, brother MC.
 
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prodromos

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It's just making it hard, because anything that remotely reminds him of an RC church makes him suspicious. I asked him to try to separate things and look at them individually. Like the sign of the cross - that bothered him, but really, what is it that seems unbiblical or wrong about it? That kind of thing, if that makes sense.
When Orthodox Christians make the sign of the cross, the way we hold our fingers is a confession of the Holy Trinity and Christ's human and divine natures. Everything we do has purpose :)
 
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Mama Kidogo

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Well hers is for EASTERN Orthodox and yours just says CATHOLIC. I would prefer if this site showed it as Roman Catholic. There ARE other Catholic denoms just as there are other Orthodox denoms.
Is the ACC not RCC?
I'd prefer it if there were only one faith icon. But it is what it is.
I spend the majority of my Orthodox life of Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria and we served in the Congo. Now I'm in Florida so it seemed like a bit too much of a trip to church.;) I'm currently of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.
Eastern does not denote location anymore just as Greek does not denote in Greece exclusively and Russian does not denote in Russia. They denote specific traditions.
So if you read me using words like Pope vs Patriarch and diocese vs jurisdiction, know it's an African thing. I'm still getting used to the toilet being in the house and not swatting mosquitoes while upon it. Luxury is nice.
 
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Tangible

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K,
Your husband just might be a much more aware and astutely observant person then he might appear to be. He might be tuning into spiritual cues that are meant for him, alone, to see and understand certain nuances through.
On the other hand, he may have certain preconceived notions and prejudices that need to be corrected before he can make an unbiased decision.

No offense, but I think that's the same place where I was for years. Even after embracing a more historical and catholic form of Christianity, it took quite a while before my Baptist red-flagger stopped tripping.
 
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~Anastasia~

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K,
Your husband just might be a much more aware and astutely observant person then he might appear to be. He might be tuning into spiritual cues that are meant for him, alone, to see and understand certain nuances through.

I have given that thought, as I certainly considered it a possibility. He is in fact spiritually very sensitive, and has learned from the Holy Spirit independent of what his first church taught him.

I had a bit of a problem though. When we first met, he told me his church was non-denominational. Back then, I thought all non-denoms were the same, and I was in a non-denom too. When I found out after we'd been courting for a while, and well on our way to being engaged, that his church was actually a reformed baptist that had rejected a few of the baptist doctrines and so became a "non-denom" ... my heart sank. I had to hide my spirituality from my first husband, and I was unwilling to be in that position again. He was very set against Pentecostal ideas, but not quite to the degree that he is set against RC ones. Almost though. If I had simply dropped everything in his lap, I'm sure he would thought I was some kind of mad heretic and fled for his life. I had to very, very carefully explore his beliefs on the subject, and I found he had a very discerning spirit, and could sense some spiritual evil. That is in direct contrast to the teaching of his former church, so I just branched slowly out from there.

I don't mean to sound manipulative, and that possibly does. He just reserved his judgment, and gave me some benefit of the doubt, and saw that worship in my church was not so different from his (well, it was different, his had a symphony orchestra and a congregation of 20K+ and we had 1200 and a praise band) ... but there were no wild manifestations going on. They do allow dancing at the altar, but nothing "weird" happens, and he likened it to David dancing before the Lord. But he still has never spoken in tongues, and probably never will. I certainly don't press the issue. He does however, at least believe in gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Oh, too late to make long story short. My point is that, he had a great distrust against every segment of Christianity except his own church. He had had quite a bit of experience in "hearing God" as a child - coming from an Eastern culture such things were not so foreign to him. And yet under this pastor, who taught that any internal voices were probably demons, he doubted the experiences of his entire life. This pastor had him doubting everything and everyone, including himself. I find that sad, really.

Basically, I've been down this road before, and I know that his own discernment can't operate while it's under the "spell" of what his former pastor taught. I do trust his discernment, but I know he's just "reacting".

As far as it goes, I know that we are both in the Lord. We are both being led by him, and I don't fear for either of us. While I would much rather be in a church I agreed on all the doctrine, right now I don't even have mine worked out, and I'm not so sure I will ever really fit anywhere, so I can accept it. I don't wish to injure his conscience, so I don't know, I'm thinking of backing off. I will pray for wisdom. He tends to throw up walls in many areas of life, and they are difficult to breach.

I do know that I need to go to a liturgical church, just to learn something. I don't even know if I will like it, and I don't know that I'm to stay there. All I know is that there is something I am supposed to find out. That doesn't mean he has to come with me.

I think I often somewhat "offend" people in all areas of Christianity here. I am following my own conscience ... I have very fruitful discussions with Pentecostals, with Orthodox, with Roman Catholics, and with many others. I feel in my spirit not to react against anything, though that is not to say that I agree with everything. But I know that I probably appear to drift too much, and embrace too much. I can't explain it beyond there is something God is teaching me right now, and it comes from understanding many churches. I don't know where this is leading. But I know I trust Him.

And yes, I know there are things to be discerned against. So often I want to reassure people that I do recognize that. But I do also see that not only my husband, but others too, sometimes react against things - whether they are reacting against "something Catholic" or "speaking in tongues" or whatever the case may be. The church as a whole can be very prejudiced, you know?

But yes, certainly, discernment in all things. Test all things. Hold fast to that which is true.

I appreciate your words, dear brother :) , as I receive them as sincere concern.
 
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Mama Kidogo

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Even after embracing a more historical and catholic form of Christianity, it took quite a while before my Baptist red-flagger stopped tripping.

images


#3058 Thou shalt not dance.
#6723 Thou shall not drink wine or strong drink except in secret.
 
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Tangible

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Hehe. Actually, it was more often about whether or not Baptism can actually do everything the bible says it can. (Although I sometimes still feel a twinge when someone I know sees me going into the liquor store.)

Kylissa, this came across my FB today, and I thought you might appreciate reading it.

how I wound up in private Confession without realizing it | stet
 
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~Anastasia~

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images


#3058 Thou shalt not dance.
#6723 Thou shall not drink wine or strong drink except in secret.

Thou shalt not even work in any establishment that sells alcohol.

Thou shalt not hear from God, nor be led of God in any way.

Thou shalt not raise thy hands in worship.

Thou shalt not deviate from the planned service schedule for any reason.

Thou shalt not pray for healing.

Thou shalt not fast.

Thou shalt not ask the elders of the church to anoint thee with oil to pray for thee in any circumstance.

Thou shalt not suggest the Holy Spirit gives gifts of any kind to the church after the closing of the canon of Scripture - they are no longer needed.

Thou shalt establish all of thy doctrine by Scripture alone.

Thou shalt not listen to any teacher who believes women should wear skirts - to listen to such a one on any subject would be legalism. (And we don't believe in legalism in any form.)

(and no, I don't believe women should only wear skirts, but I found it humorous that whole parts of the body were excised for the stated reason)

OK, I think I'm done. But yes, I was told all of these things. Don't even MENTION anything related to the RC church!
 
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~Anastasia~

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Kylissa, this came across my FB today, and I thought you might appreciate reading it.

how I wound up in private Confession without realizing it | stet

Thanks, that was interesting. I hadn't thought of it from that point of view.

Are the words listed there typical in different churches? I'm guessing this is Lutheran.

“In the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

All I have in my mind, of course, is the Hollywood version of Roman Catholic confession, which possibly isn't all that accurate anyway. Hollywood doesn't exactly have a sterling track record.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Thou shalt not even work in any establishment that sells alcohol.

Eh, maybe I should not have posted that. I admit, I spent years being upset with the Baptist church because when I was 12 years old, I made an appointment with a pastor at a church and went in. I wanted some answers about God.

I always was funny about that kind of thing. In a few cases I have brazenly just gone to "the top" in a few denoms, etc. and now looking back I'm surprised people made time for me, but they always did.

But I made an appointment with the pastor of a Baptist church, spent time in a 2-hour interview, doing more talking about what I thought than questioning, as I recall. I had some ideas, and I guess I wanted them confirmed.

I DO think God was working in me, from childhood.

But he seemed kind of amazed, said God was with me, invited me to come to church and "say the prayer" and so I did. He baptized me, and that was that.

I actually still love that man, so many years later. But the church wasn't set up for someone like me, and I slipped through the cracks.

Now I am not really sure when I was "saved". But I am concerned that I went through decades of my life, with the "assurance" that I had done all that was needed, even though I never read the Bible, never went to church, and prayed only when I got myself in a tight situation, with no real faith.

I am afraid of what would have happened if I had died during those years. Seeing as how I really didn't believe in God after I was indoctrinated at the university, I don't see how I could have been "saved".

So yes, I had hard feelings about the Baptist church because of that, after I REALLY cried out to God one day, and from that time I was changed and I KNOW He is real.

Still, I didn't know any other church, so that's the one I chose when God made it clear I needed to go to church. But with Him working in my life, it wasn't really very long before I began to bump against their doctrines. I still know I learned from them to carefully search the Bible, to submit every doctrine to Scripture, and to test all things. They taught me that.

But between my early problem of getting shuffled aside, my issues with their teaching against what I learned in my own walk, and then (and now) the rigidity of my husband in discarding things without testing them ... I'm sorry. I'm a little upset from time to time. Maybe I should not have posted that comment.
 
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Thanks, that was interesting. I hadn't thought of it from that point of view.

Are the words listed there typical in different churches? I'm guessing this is Lutheran.

“In the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

All I have in my mind, of course, is the Hollywood version of Roman Catholic confession, which possibly isn't all that accurate anyway. Hollywood doesn't exactly have a sterling track record.
Yeah, Confessional Lutheran. Private confession plus the Gospel of Jesus Christ and minus the fifty Hail Marys.
 
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