Confession and Repentance?

[Wordkeeper]

How do you get God's "approval"?

The obstacle between loving God and loving our fellow human beings is selfishness. We must put to death the deeds of the body, by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

 

[Wordkeeper]

I would suggest that the requirements of the New Covenant are to love God and love our neighbor. That being said, attempting to fulfill those requirements as a means of salvation is futile. We are supposed to do those things as our part in the New Covenant but there is no clause in that covenant that states those things are a requirement for salvation .That is not how it works,. Under the New Covenant, God offers us salvation without requiring any prior qualifications on our part but if we accept that gift we can be expected to act in such a way as it shows that we have accepted it.

Salvation is not going to heaven. Salvation is to have a meaningful life, a life that reaps eternal treasure, not treasure that rusts and perishes. That is receiving the ability to be a blessing to the world, as promised to Abraham. To have that life, we must be in God's good books, have His approval, be in His grace. Reached by being loyal, doing things that pleases Him. What pleases Him is not perfection, but being in His grace. Walking by the Spirit, confessing our sins.


Galatians 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ONATREE”—14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Steeno7]

The obstacle between loving God and loving our fellow human beings is selfishness. We must put to death the deeds of the body, by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Not a chance. We get God's approval by being in the One He is well pleased with, Jesus Christ.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Not a chance. We get God's approval by being in the One He is well pleased with, Jesus Christ.

So how do you get IN Christ?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Salvation is not going to heaven. Salvation is to have a meaningful life, a life that reaps eternal treasure, not treasure that rusts and perishes. That is receiving the ability to be a blessing to the world, as promised to Abraham. To have that life, we must be in God's good books, have His approval, be in His grace. Reached by being loyal, doing things that pleases Him. What pleases Him is not perfection, but being in His grace. Walking by the Spirit, confessing our sins.


Galatians 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ONATREE”—14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Except for the parts about having a meaningful life and being reached by being loyal and doing things that please Him , I would agree pretty much with what you said. I would say that it is imperative to understand that we are not capable of reaching out to God and acquiring His grace and having Him save us by our loyalty or our actions . God is not bound by what we do. God reaches out to us and we are bound by what He does.

 

[Steeno7]

So how do you get IN Christ?

By grace through faith.

 

[Wordkeeper]

By grace through faith.

You mean by God's approval through loyalty?

 

[Steeno7]

You mean by God's approval through loyalty?

No. I mean by grace through faith.

 

[Wordkeeper]

No. I mean by grace through faith.

Consider for a moment that we often impose anachronistic views on historical texts, use modern meanings for words that had a different connotation in ancient times.

Today scholars understand that faith and grace had a different meaning in the Ancient Near East (ANE), in the context of the Patron Client paradigm. This was especially so in the Roman Empire, a biblical example being Pontius Pilate. He was a lower class citizen, and needed to find a Patron, who could help him to do well in life. To do this he had to show loyalty, faith, to that Patron, who would in turn accept him, and make him the recipient of his generosity, his grace. Pontius Pilate was appointed governor of a minor colony, Palestine, as the result of such loyalty. There wasn't much that a insignificant person like Pilate could do for an important person like his patron, so loyal acts was mainly saying good things about the latter.

The NT writers found that the Patron-client relationship matched the relationship that existed between God and His people, so they adopted all the terms that were used in that relationship, pistis, charis, to describe the requirements and rewards of the New Covenant. Just like they used words like adonai, sarx, psyche to match words used in the Old Testament.

http://theogeek.blogspot.in/2006/03/patron-client-system-and-hebrews-111.html?m=1

Quote
The Patron-Client system is the name given to a particular way of structuring a society such that is organised in a roughly hierarchical structure. Each person in the hierarchy has a "patron" above them (perhaps more than one) and a number of clients below them. The analogy of an army with one general commanding lots of captains each commanding lots of soldiers is a useful one. Basically in the patron-client system, people seek to make mutually beneficial alliances, with the less poweful people seeking out the more powerful people and offering allegiance in exchange for protection and benefits. So if I found a person I wanted as a patron, I would offer my allegiance to them, promising to do what I could to enhance their honour (thus increasing their power and wealth, see above) and serving them as I could, and in exchange they might grant me (or get their friend, or their patron to grant me) a position in government etc or some other favour that I am wanting. Hence society was made up of this huge web of tree-like structures of Patron-Client relationships. The Clients offered theirfaithfulness and the Patrons responded by granting favours. Clients could ask particular favours of their Patrons, or alternatively a Patron could shower their clients with gifts, and the client was then expected to praise in extravagant terms their Patron's generosity to others thus increasing the Patron's honour (and thus wealth). Of course if you had a reputation for extravagantly praising your patrons for their gifts, other patrons would seek you out, wanting to effectively invest in you, giving you gifts in exchange for you publically praising them and increasing their honour.


In situations where the NT writers contrasted faith with works, they are similarly stating that the result of an act was a gift, not a salary. The client's praise does not result in the production of the gift, as, for example, labouring in a field would result in a good harvest. The gift is a gift because the result is NOT commensurate with the effort.

So when Paul says that the gentile is saved by grace through faith, and even that is a gift, he means that the gentile has been included in the group that is called the people of God, formerly consisting of only Jews, and grace is a gift and even faith, loyalty, the opportunity to exhibit loyalty to God, was not earned, was not because gentiles had proved to be more worthy than Jews, because there was no one righteous, not even one, neither Jew nor Gentile, but all were chosen because of unmerited grace.

 

[Steeno7]

Romans 9:32
"Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone."

Galatians 2:16
"Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified."

Ephesians 2:9
"Not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

[Wordkeeper]

Romans 9:32
"Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone."

Galatians 2:16
"Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified."

Ephesians 2:9
"Not by works, so that no one can boast."

Absolutely, we can't contribute to our salvation, no one can do what is required for that, we are too insignificant. Only God, our Patron, can save us, and we can only receive that gift, salvation, become a blessing to the world by just being clients, receivers of gifts, by increasing His honor, saying good things about Him, the only thing that differentiates those who are clients from those who are not. BTW, did you receive the gift, are you a blessing to the world?

 

[Steeno7]

Absolutely, we can't contribute to our salvation, no one can do what is required for that, we are too insignificant. Only God, our Patron, can save us, and we can only receive that gift, salvation, become a blessing to the world by just being clients, receivers of gifts, by increasing His honor, saying good things about Him, the only thing that differentiates those who are clients from those who are not. BTW, did you receive the gift, are you a blessing to the world?

Only Jesus, the Savior, can save us. And yes I have received Him.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Only Jesus, the Savior, can save us. And yes I have received Him.

So how are you a blessing to the world?

 

[Steeno7]

So how are you a blessing to the world?

By spreading the good news of Gods grace. And you?

 

[Wordkeeper]

By spreading the good news of Gods grace. And you?

Me? By giving a teaching, words of life, river of living water to people that convinces people to come out of Egypt and follow God. This is a sign that causes people to believe that God requires them to live a life that leads to eternal treasure, rather than one that makes living this earthly life less painful, the reward that earthly treasure brings. The sign is the coherent explanation of Scripture. Here it is again:

God promised Abraham that He would make his seed a blessing to the world, the blessing that Adam was created to be.

Moses brought Israel out of Egypt, but failed to bring her into promised Land.

Joshua succeeded in bringing Israel into the promised Land but it was not the fulfillment of the blessing to Abraham, because in order to be a blessing to the world, a believer must be IN Christ, the true Promised Land, the real rest from self effort.

Now that Christ has saved, those who leave the world can find true rest in Christ, live a life that results in treasure, ability to live life in the world to come. This life is the preparatory stage. The life to come is the real life.

This life is reached by being a blessing to the world, gathering people out of the world to follow God. Made possible not by being cleansed of all the thorns in the flesh, but by being in God's grace, His favor, the recipient of the power of Christ. Let's say that again: God tells us that His grace is sufficient to have the power of Christ dwell in us, the ability to give words of life, a coherent explanation of Scripture. Not removal of all the thorns in the flesh. Indeed, when we are weak, have a thorn in the flesh, and can have rivers of living waters flow from our inner being, then people will know that the coherent teaching is not from us, but from God. Because no humans can perform these signs unless God is with them. People recognized that in the son of a carpenter, in ordinary fishermen. The presence of God, in humans with no education.

Paul had a weakness that should have been an obstacle to his ministry, but he was still able to provide streams of living waters, words of life, because God's grace is sufficient, and Christ's power is made manifest, perfected by weakness.

So maybe my weakness is impatience, a bad temper. I pray to God to remove this thorn in the flesh. To prevent me from becoming proud, God allowed me to continue to be oppressed by this sin. I admit this sin to my listeners gladly, so that God's power is perfected in my weakness, so that people realise that the sign, this interpretation is not of my own doing, but God's.


Now that is a coherent, robust explanation. There is no Scripture that contradicts it. Not so with your explanation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Grace_theology


Free Grace Theology

"Free Grace theology is a Christian soteriological view teaching that everyone receives eternal life the moment they believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord. "Lord" refers to the belief that Jesus is the Son of God and therefore able to be their "Savior".


See one problem with Free Grace Theology:

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/freegrace.html

God’s Definitive Work in Redemption

It is apparent, from the Scriptures, that God’s design in salvation is not just to bring people to heaven; His aim is to glorify Himself by calling a particular people to Himself, and sanctifying them so that they will be a light to the world. Though capable of failure (sometimes heinously, like David), these are momentary moral lapses rather than prolonged patterns of unrepentant rebellion. These next seven verses describe the fundamental change wrought by God in the heart of a man when He saves him. Note the definitive character of most of these statements: This is not what one may or may not do in response to God; it is what God effectively will do (and does) when saving a man:

Jeremiah 31:33--But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 11:19-20--And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26-27--And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Acts 15:8-9--"So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9"and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Romans 7:4--Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Titus 2:14--"who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."

1 Peter 1:1,2--Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ"

Ephesians 2:10--"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

 

[Steeno7]

Me? By giving a teaching, words of life, river of living water to people that convinces people to come out of Egypt and follow God. This is a sign that causes people to believe that God requires them to live a life that leads to eternal treasure, rather than one that makes living this earthly life less painful, the reward that earthly treasure brings. The sign is the coherent explanation of Scripture. Here it is again:

God promised Abraham that He would make his seed a blessing to the world, the blessing that Adam was created to be.

Moses brought Israel out of Egypt, but failed to bring her into promised Land.

Joshua succeeded in bringing Israel into the promised Land but it was not the fulfillment of the blessing to Abraham, because in order to be a blessing to the world, a believer must be IN Christ, the true Promised Land, the real rest from self effort.

Now that Christ has saved, those who leave the world can find true rest in Christ, live a life that results in treasure, ability to live life in the world to come. This life is the preparatory stage. The life to come is the real life.

This life is reached by being a blessing to the world, gathering people out of the world to follow God. Made possible not by being cleansed of all the thorns in the flesh, but by being in God's grace, His favor, the recipient of the power of Christ. Let's say that again: God tells us that His grace is sufficient to have the power of Christ dwell in us, the ability to give words of life, a coherent explanation of Scripture. Not removal of all the thorns in the flesh. Indeed, when we are weak, have a thorn in the flesh, and can have rivers of living waters flow from our inner being, then people will know that the coherent teaching is not from us, but from God. Because no humans can perform these signs unless God is with them. People recognized that in the son of a carpenter, in ordinary fishermen. The presence of God, in humans with no education.

Paul had a weakness that should have been an obstacle to his ministry, but he was still able to provide streams of living waters, words of life, because God's grace is sufficient, and Christ's power is made manifest, perfected by weakness.

So maybe my weakness is impatience, a bad temper. I pray to God to remove this thorn in the flesh. To prevent me from becoming proud, God allowed me to continue to be oppressed by this sin. I admit this sin to my listeners gladly, so that God's power is perfected in my weakness, so that people realise that the sign, this interpretation is not of my own doing, but God's.


Now that is a coherent, robust explanation. There is no Scripture that contradicts it. Not so with your explanation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Grace_theology


Free Grace Theology

"Free Grace theology is a Christian soteriological view teaching that everyone receives eternal life the moment they believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord. "Lord" refers to the belief that Jesus is the Son of God and therefore able to be their "Savior".


See one problem with Free Grace Theology:

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/freegrace.html

God’s Definitive Work in Redemption

It is apparent, from the Scriptures, that God’s design in salvation is not just to bring people to heaven; His aim is to glorify Himself by calling a particular people to Himself, and sanctifying them so that they will be a light to the world. Though capable of failure (sometimes heinously, like David), these are momentary moral lapses rather than prolonged patterns of unrepentant rebellion. These next seven verses describe the fundamental change wrought by God in the heart of a man when He saves him. Note the definitive character of most of these statements: This is not what one may or may not do in response to God; it is what God effectively will do (and does) when saving a man:

Jeremiah 31:33--But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 11:19-20--And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26-27--And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Acts 15:8-9--"So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9"and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Romans 7:4--Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Titus 2:14--"who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."

1 Peter 1:1,2--Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ"

Ephesians 2:10--"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

I do not ascribe to "free grace theology" but I do ascribe to our being freely justified by His grace.

Romans 3:24
"all are justified freely by His Grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

You do not bless others by attaching "requirements" to what is freely given and what can only be freely received.

 

[Wordkeeper]

I do not ascribe to "free grace theology" but I do ascribe to our being freely justified by His grace.

Romans 3:24
"all are justified freely by His Grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

You do not bless others by attaching "requirements" to what is freely given and what can only be freely received.

You are using the verse to support a view of freedom from requirements, when the verse is actually teaching about freedom from the requirements of the covenant of law.

To understand the situation, you must underhand how the covenant of law works.

The Jew had the requirements of God handed to him formally. He had to see that all those requirements were compulsory. This forced him to try and observe the law. When observed correctly, he would realise his inability to be compliant and would have to turn to God for mercy. That's what happens when you know something is required, you are not compliant and you want to escape the penalty for non compliance.

The Gentile knew he was given a conscience by God for a purpose. All other creatures were not made in Gods image, had no conscience and there was no requirement from them, from those creatures, to be lawful. Since they, Gentiles, did have a conscience, it had a purpose: to convey God's requirements. Therefore, the covenant with God was inferred. When they found out they could not even meet the requirements of the conscience, they were forced to do the same thing as the Jews who had the formal covenant: they had to fall on God's mercy.

Turning to God for mercy worked the same way for those who believed God wanted men, both Jew and Gentile, to be godly in their behavior: they did receive mercy, were forgiven. Justification, being found righteous by God, in the old covenant was conditional on humility, and being lifted up, exalted, was forgiveness.

In the new covenant, justification was conditional on being loyal to Christ, apart from the law. IOW, there was freedom from going through the process of the old covenant: belief that godly behaviour was compulsory, realisation of inadequacy, turning to the only other way to escape judgment, God's mercy.

So for both Jew and Gentile, the requirement in the new covenant was to be loyal to Christ.

The covenant offered by Jesus is to be loyal to Him, involving only saying good things about Him. In return, we will be given rest in Him. Think about it as the result that Joshua and Caleb achieved, being able to enter God's rest, allowed to enter the Promised Land, when they said good things about God, when deprived of water, unlike the Israelites who murmured against God, and Moses, who said good things about himself.

Justification in the new covenant is conditional on loyalty to Christ, saying good things about Him, like agreeing He is the Savior mankind needs, and exaltation is being in God's favor, grace, being recipients of His gifts, empowerment to being a blessing to the world, being able to convince men about the futility of living a life devoted to avoiding pain, treasure that perishes, to enter a life that resulted in empowerment to live a life that had permanent rewards, eternal treasure.

 

[Steeno7]

You are using the verse to support a view of freedom from requirements, when the verse is actually teaching about freedom from the requirements of the covenant of law.

To understand the situation, you must underhand how the covenant of law works.

The Jew had the requirements of God handed to him formally. He had to see that all those requirements were compulsory. This forced him to try and observe the law. When observed correctly, he would realise his inability to be compliant and would have to turn to God for mercy. That's what happens when you know something is required, you are not compliant and you want to escape the penalty for non compliance.

The Gentile knew he was given a conscience by God for a purpose. All other creatures were not made in Gods image, had no conscience and there was no requirement from them, from those creatures, to be lawful. Since they, Gentiles, did have a conscience, it had a purpose: to convey God's requirements. Therefore, the covenant with God was inferred. When they found out they could not even meet the requirements of the conscience, they were forced to do the same thing as the Jews who had the formal covenant: they had to fall on God's mercy.

Turning to God for mercy worked the same way for those who believed God wanted men, both Jew and Gentile, to be godly in their behavior: they did receive mercy, were forgiven. Justification, being found righteous by God, in the old covenant was conditional on humility, and being lifted up, exalted, was forgiveness.

In the new covenant, justification was conditional on being loyal to Christ, apart from the law. IOW, there was freedom from going through the process of the old covenant: belief that godly behaviour was compulsory, realisation of inadequacy, turning to the only other way to escape judgment, God's mercy.

So for both Jew and Gentile, the requirement in the new covenant was to be loyal to Christ.

The covenant offered by Jesus is to be loyal to Him, involving only saying good things about Him. In return, we will be given rest in Him. Think about it as the result that Joshua and Caleb achieved, being able to enter God's rest, allowed to enter the Promised Land, when they said good things about God, when deprived of water, unlike the Israelites who murmured against God, and Moses, who said good things about himself.

Justification in the new covenant is conditional on loyalty to Christ, saying good things about Him, like agreeing He is the Savior mankind needs, and exaltation is being in God's favor, grace, being recipients of His gifts, empowerment to being a blessing to the world, being able to convince men about the futility of living a life devoted to avoiding pain, treasure that perishes, to enter a life that resulted in empowerment to live a life that had permanent rewards, eternal treasure.

Well, sorry but, that's just all wrong.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Well, sorry but, that's just all wrong.

You mean that when Paul wanted to be sanctified, but God said His grace, conditional on loyalty, was sufficient for being a blessing to the world, that they were both wrong?

 

[Steeno7]

You mean that when Paul wanted to be sanctified, but God said His grace, conditional on loyalty, was sufficient for being a blessing to the world, that they were both wrong?

I mean what you wrote, and now are continuing to write, is just all wrong.