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condition for people to be saved in their last moments

Discussion in '"My Two Cents Worth"' started by mikeforjesus, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    Thankyou I was not testing God to see if one can delay repentance but I wanted to understand the danger because some people sin often and are not punished but I know that is risky as one could still die and the more involved one is in sin the greater may be the struggle to escape from the sin and one is kept from doing what is required to repent
     
  2. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I think people should be baptised though as I believe it is necessary to be saved upon death but people can still do the will of God and overcome and be faithful till death and they will be saved maybe if you die for Christ you do not need baptism to be saved on death but you may still need purification but those who refuse baptism are punished for rejecting the command and then purified but God may make exceptions if person dies for Him
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
  3. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I believe God does not justify us for our good works to try to earn salvation but they are a necessary response to people who are Christians they should behave in the way a Christian should when they know for to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin. Every person who reads Christs word and believes and is grounded in a proper understanding of it is born again and has the Holy Spirit and will know be guided how to bear fruit by the Spirit but some bear more fruit than others everyone must make sure they are truly grounded in the faith to be able to bear some fruit

    It is necessary to work out one salvation with fear and trembling to see one has a living faith works are necessary but one does not earn salvation because he has done many works but because one obeys the leading of the Holy Spirit and does His will. Works are necessary to do if one life shows that one does not care to serve Christ and to do good works it is evidence one is not a follower of Christ for one has to make sure that ones life matches one faith and that he is as Jesus said he who hears these sayings of mine and does them is a wise man who built his house on the rock but some works it seems could not be necessary that God did not require it of you but to help but if one thinks it may be required of you you should
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  4. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

    +2,977
    Christian
    Married
    Sooo... If you die instantly in an accident or whatever you are screwed. There's no guarantee that you will still be in a state of mind to repent or even want to. You can sear your conscience too much and not hear the Spirit anymore, IMO.
     
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  5. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    Yes it can be too late if you are not seeking while you have chance the bible says today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts I don’t think we can ever say when it is too late for people but when people hearts are hardened it becomes dangerous but one may still have opportunity to believe and repent though it would require greater struggle to believe and repent if one has opportunity because it could become too late if God does not give them opportunity but one dies without having done the will of God but if one believed and repented and done the will of God before he dies they can be saved and it means God gave them opportunity to repent which we can not be sure if one has opportunity
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  6. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I believe I have to teach as the bible says that today is the day of salvation and people should give their heart and life to Jesus today and seek Him diligently and it is necessary to say to such people to do so and to tell them if you don’t you may not be able to turn another time to be able to do all the will of God before you die
     
  7. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I know it seems like earning salvation but it is not it is to be made worthy of Christ to show you His will which He promises to guide a person to what is required it may be God will for a person is not the same for all such as requiring one to preach when there is danger others could harm you or to need to go out in streets to preach if it is not welcome though one should though it could be more dangerous if not done with a group it could not be required and God may just require a person to share one faith to those who know him unless God makes known to them such is required as they seek Him but I say it is necessary to turn from one sin now to be sure one will be able to do His will because one does not know if one does not turn now that one will have opportunity to later and if one does if one takes it because one can lose one opportunity if one does not turn while one can as one could die before one has sought to repent wholeheartedly to seek to do His will to be able to find it because the bible says turn at my rebuke I will surely make my words known to you
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  8. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    The bible is clear we are either for Christ or against Him we are either lovers of the truth or accept lies because we never came to knowledge of truth. Christians who believe in a false gospel that denies the necessity of believing in Jesus may not be saved or they don’t have a true knowledge of the truth and are not able to help others to realise how much one needs Christ and why it is the unforgivable sin to reject Him

    So we should preach the true gospel

    Hell’s Best Kept Secret | Living Waters
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  9. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    Jesus requires people to be either for Him or against Him He does not accept lukewarm christians therefore one must accept that only those who believed you have to believe in Jesus to go to heaven can be saved. People have to teach the truth of the gospel and accept what He teaches and strive to be saved. Though one does not know the mind of God we have to accept it as so to assume it as we don't know otherwise
     
  10. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    Good works are necessary but you don’t earn salvation because you have a good enough history of good works as though God requires a great history of good works and that it can be too late one has to only worry if he is doing what he can do now that is what God looks out for. It is good to have a history of good works if that is an indication you knew Christ already and was knowing and following Him as also if one purposely delays following Him that is not safe and it can be dangerous also if you are not seeking Christ but God does not give salvation based on counting one deeds but it is only an indication one is living in Christ

    St Paul said those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works if you are a Christian you are expected to do good as bible says to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin. It is not by doing many good works but doing the will of the Father one is given talents as a believer that he knows he has and can find more and is expected to work one does not just do good but one discovers when one spends time with Jesus what he can do for jesus with His ability.

    For when St Peter said believers should add to their faith virtue etc he is saying what should be expected of a believer that he is doing what christ shows him to do and so he says so an entrance will be supplied to you in the kingdom. The parable of the shrewd servant shows that even if one is not much able to hold a big position to serve God he can win the kingdom by seeking to do what he is able to do when he does good to all he can do to which he is able to do.

    But if you are trusting in your deeds and think you can earn salvation by your deeds and it is because of yourself that you are saved that seems to describe those on the left who said when did we see you Lord and did not minister to you for they thought they were good in themselves but the righteous do not think at all they have done any good though they do it they have relationship with christ which allows christ to work through them.

    I think that is what my dad means you can't be justified by works. Not that you do not have to seek to do good but you are not to think you can earn it it is your duty to do good not to think you deserve salvation for ones trust to be saved is in christ meaning one never trusts in his works as though he thinks he deserves salvation because of his works because one is commanded when one does good not to know for your left hand not to know what your right hand is doing and one works are done naturally out of relationship with christ because one wants to do them but he does not think he deserves salvation because of such works but sees them as ones duty if christ died for him he ought to seek to offer him the least but not something he thinks as great to deserve to go to heaven because of them as though he thinks he is good in himself he seeks to do good because he is required but he never thinks such works earn him a right in heaven he really must not think he has done any good he does it because he knows he is required to and because he wants to that is necessary but not to think of it as a deed worthy of salvation for we are commanded for our left hand not to know what our right hand is doing

    For the bible says Mary has chosen the good part which will not be taken from her. That is the important thing to have relationship with Christ no works are needed to do to try to earn salvation that is God does not seek merely works with no relationship with God but one does the works that God shows one that are required for those who believe and have relationship with Him will be able to know what He requires and having that understanding knowing what talents one has one will know how one can serve Him as bible says we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  11. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I asked my dad if he thinks if I need to work that I am not trusting in Jesus as saviour for I believe people must accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour that one is not able to make him Lord because of one strength but because of Christ so He is saviour he said that is just discussion for people every one should know they need to work but it is arguments of what comes first works or one relationship with Christ one needs to work
     
  12. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I don’t think Jesus wants me to preach baptism and communion as necessary but to have faith to not make divisions to exclude people who will not teach it as necessary because they worry to stumble others now.

    Because God wants us to live by faith to not make people disbelieve in His fairness that He would judge people who did not teach it as necessary and to encourage those who will not teach baptism as necessary because they think it will stumble others to not exclude them and to encourage them to be teaching the whole counsel of God that we need to all have relationship with Christ to be seeking to take up our cross to follow Christ.


    Also I would not teach baptism as necessary for if people delayed it or were not baptised they may think if they are persecuted they don’t have strength to follow Christ but it is actually Christ who gives strength or they may feel ashamed to be baptized because they did not tell others to before and cause stumbling blocks to others especially communion as necessary for then people think if they did not have it earlier there will be no strength given to carry their cross.God supplies help to all who seek Him diligently.


    I believe baptism is still necessary to be saved on death perhaps communion may be necessary to be saved on death to make them have life now though if one does not have it when he can if he is ready he won’t be able to partake of life now not that one is not spiritually alive without it which means one is living according to Spirit by the Holy Spirit. But I think communion may not be necessary even to be saved on death but just to have partaken of life now to be alive now but one is still saved and allowed to have life later.

    But the means of being united to God fully may be through communion it is for witnessing that because of Christ one can be fully united to Christ now so one is alive with Christ now which others who yet walk with Christ and are considered alive because they crucify the flesh need communion to be united to God now.

    Otherwise they will be able to partake of Christ later as they are yet Christ’s for they are spiritually alive in the sense that they are crucifying the flesh and bear fruit of the Spirit by walking in the Spirit but they are not made one with Christ for them to not only overcome the flesh and be pleasing Him bearing fruits but to be able to experience unity with Christ now to partake of that life now it may be necessary but I’m not sure because what if a person loses his chance to do it will he not saved on death.

    But I believe Jesus intended the communion to be a time where a person who partakes of Him spiritually personally is able to commune with Him spiritually at that time because of the blood of Christ because he already has the forgiveness of sins for the believer to be allowed to commune at that time to draw near to Him to worship to witness to others. As Jesus said to do it in remembrance of Him until He comes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  13. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    The truth is no one has an excuse because everyone is given their fair chances to find the truth and everyone who seeks the truth can find it I don’t know if anyone would not have been given enough knowledge of ones duty throughout one life to have an excuse but if that is the case I believe if one genuinely wanted the truth God would reveal it to one who is seeking later before they die or even if that is in one last breath when they are unconscious but still alive still having breath


    Jesus said narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life and there are few who find it.

    People have to seek the truth to find it some will be shown the truth and should respond if not they may find it harder to find truth before they die if they did not seek while they can if they had all their chances God may give more chances to some if he thinks they deserve it to find it more easily later if he wants to give it to them then but one can not presume he will for he may have given chances to one before to seek and to know and one has to therefore seek to believe because one may not deserve further chances to believe if God thinks one has got all one chances which we are to assume all our chances are fair for those who have been counseled to seek may not get further opportunity for one has to actually seek but God can give opportunity to whoever deserves it. It is difficult because you are required to follow Christ once you know the truth it is your choice if you do not you may die earlier while not making decision because not everyone will deserve chance to find it later. Everyone is responsible to seek the truth and is in danger because he does not know if he is given his chances and so does not know if he will be given his chances later

    Some may not worship actual physical idols but they do not worship the true God who can be known Jesus said you have to worship in spirit and truth. God requires people to know true God as Jesus says that they may know you know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent for Jesus is the way the truth and the life without believing in His redemption for forgiveness of sins and being made new people people can not enter kingdom of God if other religions are not ways to God a religion which says all ways lead to God is not true either

    Acts 17:23-31
    23 Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead

    I said before
    It is difficult because you are required to follow Christ once you know the truth it is your choice if you do not you may die earlier while not making decision because not everyone will deserve chance to find it later.

    I suppose it is still always available to accept to believe in but devil can seek to deceive people to not make people accept it or willing to accept it and it is still necessary to do will of God which one does not know if one keeps delaying whether one will have done it before one dies and one can die at a time he does not expect whether soon or not and if one never strived while he had opportunity because one never knows when that opportunity remains he can have died when he is not living in Christ and did not do the will of God
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  14. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I think people should get baptized if one does not know it is not required one should leave judgement to God likewise one can have communion if it is required if one always has the opportunity to have communion to sanctify one otherwise I don’t think it would be required for one is only judged on what he knows he can do and is able to do so if one can know wanting it is all that is enough it is up to God if it is not required
     
  15. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    One should repent now for today is the day of salvation and one is not promised salvation if one delays that he will be able to have done the will of God before one dies. For if one does not take opportunity now one does not know if he will die before he has seeked to do the will of God and done it before one dies
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  16. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I think it is right and better that I don’t teach any works that we do as being needed to be done by man to justify one such as baptism or communion not that they are not important to be saved upon death or for communion to be already partaking of full spiritual life now for salvation is a result of only one faith and true relationship with God which must produce fruit if one has true relationship with God abiding in Him which one is able to have through faith. God does the work in us to do the works that are needed for our salvation
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  17. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    The truth is that the gospel is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes God saved people at the 11th hour who people who worked more complained thought they deserve salvation because of how long one served Him or that one reward is based on how long one knew Him but rather it is how faithful one was in serving Christ when one knew Him and one does not deserve salvation but one must repent whenever one has chance God is so happy when one turns back and turns while he can God is not deceived the condition is true repentance if anyone repents at any time sincerely and calls on the name of the Lord while he has chance he can be saved but not everyone knows if he will die if he did not seek Him diligently to repent while he has chance

    Why it is difficult is because some people are not truly calling on the name of the Lord to seek Him diligently to have a new heart to turn away from one sins some who turn away late it is not as difficult for them for they have an excuse and God makes it more easy for them to find Jesus and get a new heart and realise the falsehood of their life for they are not born christian or not born in a family where they are deceived about a false religion and they need to seek the truth

    But no one is promised that he will find Christ later even an unbeliever if one is given a chance and shown truth one can die at any time only God knows who deserves excuses. If one does not repent now and call on the name of the Lord he may die as one who never called on the name of the Lord to repent while one has chance. Some can be saved at the 11th hour that is he makes it to have a chance in one final moment to call on the name of the Lord to find the lord at that moment if he just calls at that moment and to be changed because God knows one did not get one chances. But not everyone who is not seeking before that will find God to call upon Him just in one final moments. There is always an opportunity to repent before that final moment but one must seek Him diligently it is harder then to find Him if one does not seek Him diligently while he has chance he does not know if he will die before he has repented
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  18. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of man comes.”
    Matthew 25:13

    “After the day of judgment, there is no more opportunity for good works, or for righteousness, and therefore it follows, ‘And the door was shut.’”- St Jerome

    I don’t like to quote church father writings because I do not believe they are the ultimate authority but I believe it is useful to read their works to learn from them to see how others interpreted scripture if we do not have a full understanding of scripture and to test if we do and to see if we believe their interpretation is right on a matter or not according to scripture

    It is true that people can be saved anytime they repent while they have chance but they don’t know if they will die before they took the chance to seek God and repent so it is not guaranteed to find if you delay there is also always a chance to do good if you repent while you have chance but you must be seeking diligently you don’t know if you will die before you do it and to delay is risky better to be seeking to follow righteousness now to know where it is found so you can remain in it now
     
  19. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
    Christian
    I realised from another thread as I thought about my comments that I did not have a proper understanding. I said this in another thread

    The difference between Christianity and other religions is all other religions believe you are required to earn salvation from your many works. Christ does not actually require any works to be done to earn salvation for one to have a history of good works before as long as one is currently doing all Christ said for if one has true saving faith he must have works he must be doing what he is able to do now so if one was ever living without works he was not saved and was at risk for works are a necessary fruit of true salvation if one has faith he is able to be saved but he must still work out own salvation to make sure he is living in Christ to be doing and have done His will. One must strive to do His will to diligently seek to make sure one does it while one has opportunity for one does not know when one dies
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  20. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +3,859
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married


    You may find this video very encouraging and also very helpful in confirming your understanding of the basis upon which a Christian walks with God. The last five or so minutes of the video address specifically the notion of works-salvation.

    Blessings.
     
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