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condition for people to be saved in their last moments

Discussion in '"My Two Cents Worth"' started by mikeforjesus, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    if everyone can be saved in their last moments then what is the harm of delaying repentance?

    I think there is no promise for sinners that they will live long and that the time they have remaining is easy to find oil though possible if they strive really hard. If God is patient it is because there are many righteous people praying but in the bible it says even if Job or Noah or Daniel were to pray He would not be patient to a people or person if He sees there is no hope
    maybe if they are very wicked already having had many chances we do not know how many chances we had. I don't mean to say so to cause despair because it could be God is patient because we did not have many chances but I don't know if that is the case

    The below may not be true because it it is best to assume it is very difficult to be saved at the end than from the beginning

    if a person has no good works but then later puts his faith in Christ alone to save him now in this moment he can be saved because the work of God is to believe on Him whom He sent the oil of the wise virgins is to get the faith to put your trust in Christ for salvation to forgive all your previous sins but faith without works is dead so you need to confess to others you have put your trust in Christ and does what good you can do with remaining time as you read bible God will prepare good works for you to follow as you look for opportunities to follow the gospel

    And about previous offenses you can confess all your sins to God and ask for opportunity to do good

    No one knows when he will die and if he will find opportunity to repent
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The problem is, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Forcing the flesh to believe at it's level cannot save anyone. God can save them while in a coma when they can do nothing.
     
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  3. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    Thankyou for your reply. So can we say it is up to God to show mercy if He thinks that person deserves mercy?
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Deserved mercy is not mercy. It's mercy when you don't deserve it.
     
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  5. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman Well-Known Member

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    I have read for man who did sin and then start repenting and because of this become monk and all his life go out from monastery to the woods and cry and after many years God forgive his sins, because he heard his voice, saying this. I have read for another monk who had life like angels without sins, but had one sin that must be punished and outside of the monastery wild animals killed him. So don't be so fast with sinning, repenting is hard, also God forgive but not leave without punishment. Also after repenting you must not do the same sin.
     
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  6. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I agree no one deserves mercy but there are conditions to getting mercy.
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth” 2 Timothy 2:25 (NET)
     
  8. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    When a person comes under conviction of their sin, is the best time for that person to receive the Savior for their sin (this is what happened with the theif on the cross). His Spirit won't hang around forever convicting us of our sin.
    2 Corinthians 6:2 (KJV) (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

    Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    (Heb 4:7)
     
  9. Shane McKenzie

    Shane McKenzie New Member

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    Your question assumes we have control over our own destiny.

    Suppose we don't? Suppose it's God who chooses when a person will be saved?
     
  10. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I have heard this view I thought I may agree but I wonder if it is harder to hear His voice later though still possible unless one is on his death bed and if one never tried to accept Him God may not permit that person to hear His voice then though I thought maybe God will always make it possible though harder before death for how is it said God is not willing that any perish unless it is always possible and not harder but repentance has to be sincere which only God knows

    Thankyou for sharing
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  11. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I think you are right Shane I just realised it is not of him who runs but God who shows mercy. That doesn't mean you don't have to strive but all good works should come from God grace which is our job to always pray for wisdom to only be led by the Spirit and not from ourselves
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  12. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    I believe God comes to individuals with convicting power of their sin at different times in their life, but yes, if they keep hardening their hearts they are in greater danger of reaching a point of no return.
     
  13. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is up to God, but I agree with what >

    As people keep refusing God, including by saying they will change, later > they can become harder and harder in their hearts so they are less in the direction of repenting.

    Even so, God is able to get through to anyone, at any time. I consider how in Matthew it says both those criminals hanging next to Jesus were badmouthing Him. So, I guess we could say they both were hardened in their hearts. Yet, in Luke we see that one of those guys honored Jesus and trusted Jesus to save him. And right before that we see how Jesus prayed forgiveness to the people who were hating and killing Him. So, I understand and trust that the prayer of Jesus resulted in one of those badmouthing criminals changing to honor and trust Jesus and become saved . . . though he had been so hardened, at first, even right there with Jesus.

    But Jesus was not wishful > He prayed for those people.

    What might happen is the dying person could make just a gesture, not really changing. So, what is good I think is be a good example, say what you can to people so good seeds go to them. And God saves people so now we can do His purpose here on earth.
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The problem is how does God save people? Once understood in terms of grace, it never involves the human will. He saves sinners who hate him and turns them into repentant believers that now love him.
     
  15. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Yes, or take Saul before his conversion...
    Acts 9:1-2 (KJV) And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

    Galatians 1:13 (KJV) For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
     
  16. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
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    I see people condemning sinners for giving into a cheap grace gospel I know there is hope for all the living but I don’t know what the truth is how much hope they have

    Should there only be hope for those who never went down a bad path

    However I agree that many who go down a wrong path are in great danger of losing their soul because it may be difficult to find out how to repent and they don’t know if they will live long to have better chances to repent

    Edit: I would like to edit the above paragraph as it is just the voice of despair from satan jesus says every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven the Sons of men except the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which is to refuse repentance while there is time. As long as there is life there is hope and God wants to help you yet there may be less time if God thinks person is very evil or they may have to struggle harder yet He can be found

    When it says God is not willing that any should perish it does not mean salvation is likely for those who went down a wrong path and just repent at the end but that it is always possible but many will not find and be granted repentance in the last hour because their heart becomes hardened not to want to repent or they will have to struggle to see the light from their many sins

    but today is the day of salvation to sin wilfully may make your chance of salvation much harder or you may not be given a chance to repent perhaps the bible says lest we tempt Christ and in one day 23000 fell it is not easy to find salvation when the Lord shortens your life and if you are very evil He may shorten it to make finding Him needing difficult struggle that is not as safe as living right in the first place

    To deserve forgiveness of past sin don’t you need to somehow fix the effect it has currently on the world

    some think the priest can help heal your sins

    and that Peter or the apostles who have the same faith as him or the ancient faith was given authority to loose and bind but it may mean that Peter is a rock that all believers should be like and they are a rock because of their faith and can be guided what to do about their previous sins

    Mercy is an undeserved gift to all believers zaccheus didn’t deserve forgiveness but because of his present fruitfulness he had eternal life living in him


    Not all sins can be loosed from this earth only the ones you repent of but you can be saved but the effect of your sin remains

    Still you are never responsible for other people death God gave everyone a fair chance to choose the good even if it is not the best chance because of people sin

    They are all responsible to seek the truth themselves I believe it is probably in Christ and not a church
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  17. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    the disciples all received the Holy Spirit when Jesus was risen and said receive the Holy Spirit what sins you forgive are forgiven and what sins you retain are retained not just Peter and Paul said not only Peter seemed to be pillars but James and John and Paul rebuked Peter proving he is not infallible as the book of James says we all stumble in word


    the church is built on the foundation of the apostles Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone


    meaning God worked mightily in the apostles because of Jesus Christ anyone can work on that foundation but they had special gifts from God which they already used to teach the will of God and any believer who also has the Holy Spirit can also judge what one must do for sins to be forgiven and to know how to live righteous for there is no forgiveness of sins without forsaking of sin and God wouldn’t give the gift to only some to serve some people because if you want more souls to be saved you wouldn’t let anyone go down a path of sin which you can see


    Peter and the other disciples alone were not able to judge what one must do to be forgiven as it is said in epistle of James they all stumble in many things it is the church that is being built on faith of disciples that the gates of hades prevail not it is through the Holy Spirit in all that one is most able to deal with all sins

    You only need to confess your sins to God and the person you sinned against or others if it affects them and you can fix it


    I do not know if Jesus meant only to give the keys of the kingdom to Peter and those in union with him or who share the ancient orthodox faith of peter and the apostles when he said it to him it didn’t mean only to him but it was a promise to him that he would be a pillar and have a special role of introducing the gentiles to God because he was first to confess

    So I am not going to follow it if my conscience convicts me I am judging others and I don’t know God wills for me to judge and potentially stumble other Christians and my family

    I don’t think God will want me to judge other Christians so I am not going to be catholic or orthodox


    God can give the Holy Spirit to whoever He wants when He wants as shown in acts by the Holy Spirit given to the gentiles
     
  18. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
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    1 Corinthians 3:21-23

    21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. 23 And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.


    It seems some people thought they were following Paul or Apollos and others thought they were following Cephas (Peter)



    Unless you belong to God and all the apostles because you belong to Peter but here would have been the best opportunity for Paul to say I am your servant because we all are under Peter


    I see it as Paul says not to boast that you follow any man at all therefore but that you belong to Christ

    It seems belonging to an apostolic group does not make them belong to God but belonging to God makes the apostles belong to them

    For those who said they belong to Paul obviously did not think they also need to belong to Peter or they would have said they belong to Peter and Paul it is the perfect time to tell them they need to belong to Peter also but he didn’t

    They were not just simply worshipping peter and others worshiping Paul they thought their right to be Christian was because Paul baptised them as though he shared in the mediation of Christ crucifixion saying was Paul crucified for you or he is saying the fact that he baptised has no significance only that they were baptised
     
  19. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

    +185
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    This is a testimony of a 25 year old who was shown hell and heaven




    if the path to heaven is long how come some sinners can be saved without having walked it how can one get sure he is saved now as he says in the video


    he who finds Me finds life


    I think you currently have salvation if you have a new heart capable of works but if you choose to follow sin you could lose the new heart you will have to strive to get it again which you may not find it if you don’t strive enough and if you don’t live long enough the opportunity to get it is harder though possible or if you die unexpectedly in some way such as in your sleep you can’t find it


    Can a sinner be taken without given a chance to repent while they are still alive I have heard we are not promised tommorow such as when a person dies in their sleep or some other way unexpectadly but if a person still has breath can he find salvation even if he was not repentant at all before that and is just given seconds to live what is his chance of finding oil then ?

    Does it mean everything that has breath of the Holy Spirit that found the Lord and given assurance by the Holy Spirit so that it is given breath in its spirit to praise the Lord as Ezekiel says I will cause breath to enter you that is Holy Spirit when he spoke to the dry bones



    Proverbs 23:17-18

    17 Do not let your heart envy sinners, But be zealous for the fear of the LORD all the day;18 For surely there is a hereafter,And your hope will not be cut of


    Jesus warns strive to enter by the narrow gate for many will seek to enter and will not be able


    Though it is possible for sinners to be saved and it is never too late I believe seeking Him late is risky and difficult and it could be many die in unexpected ways


    the bible says call to Him when He is near it will be harder to find Him if He is far or atleast risky as you have less chances and you have to fight a severe battle in a short time


    But that is why the bible says strive to enter by the narrow gate for many will seek to enter and will not be able


    If I have said something wrong and I promote a cheap grace gospel I would like someone to correct me is there really no hope for sinners why then did Jesus say He is not willing that any perish maybe if they are very sinful He will ensure they die unexpectadly but God could excuse some people if He thinks they deserve excuse and but it will be harder as they have less time though they will still be given a chance to repent and they have to fight a tough battle


    You should assume you need to seek God early for you don’t know if you will find Him later or you deserve to be someone that lives long even though you sin you don’t know how tough your battle will be to find God if you delay I don’t know how tough it could be but it could be very tough not because of God but because of your many sins though it is possible for God to make you repentant of all the sins you commited but to affect the change necessary to see God when you die you may need baptism and communion as they were required for obedience only I believe otherwise God will allow you to commune later after you are punished for all your sins for not being obedient with regard to those commands and the change that is necessary will be done in the other life it is not a second chance because such changes need not occur now it is for healing of soul those sacraments are not required to obey the commandments they just demonstrate that a person is healed now because of the blessing of obedience so others can be obedient and be saved now
     
  20. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Some things in life shouldn't be put off until the last minute. That last minute or second can come and go very quickly.

    Might only have enough time
    to do absolutely nothing.

    Car crashes, strokes and heart attacks etc
    can take you in a couple of seconds.
    No time to repent, think, pray or beg.

    M
     
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