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condition for people to be saved in their last moments

Discussion in 'Requests for Christian Advice' started by mikeforjesus, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    Thankyou I watched it is interesting I learned from it I do believe Christianity is a relationship one does not have to perform to do what one may not able to do to gain acceptance of one one is in a relationship with but in a relationship a person must prove one cares for the relationship one has to be faithful to do what one is able to do
     
  2. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    As believers we have duty to contend for the faith

    I said this in thread above but I believe now repentance is always available to one to have it if he seeks it while he has chance which is always before one dies if one seeks Him diligently to work out one salvation but it is safer to seek Him before so one is sure one repented before one dies. The condition for acceptance however is genuine repentance
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  3. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I was thinking can a person repent just in the last second I suppose one can but it may not be genuine in last second

    I thought can it be too late for a person if one does seek repentance while one can to make sure one is able to fully do the will of God before one dies though you can be saved in last second if you really happened to seek before to repent in last second for if one does not his repentance is not likely to be genuine but I suppose one may really be sorry for one life in last second and call on the Lord and God will accept if anyone genuinely turns to the Lord even in last second truly sorry for one life it is the truly wicked people who are never sorry for their life which is why they practiced it they will never genuinely call on the Lord in the last second I guess they can but they won’t want to if they are evil they won’t turn to the Lord in truth

    Salvation is a free gift not of works if a person is evil and really loves his evil that he practices he will not genuinely turn to the Lord before one dies so practicing evil can be condition of person who is evil
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  4. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I believe people must be seeking repentance before they die to be able to have repented just before they die if one plans to accept Jesus just in last second it probably won’t be genuine so Jesus knows if they seek to call then they will probably not be genuinely repentant to be able to repent then if you plan as in the parable of the virgins in getting oil but I suppose they may genuinely be repentant and therefore be considered to have oil.
     
  5. martin-luther2

    martin-luther2 Active Member Supporter

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    Each day that that person does not receive Jesus is knowingly rejecting Jesus --that day. That seems like rebelliousness to me. So If he does manage to "repent" on his deathbed of what value is his "repentance" ? God knows If the last minute repentance is sincere or not, or merely an effort to buy fire insurance.

    I don't think that a person can manipulate being born again.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021 at 9:25 AM
  6. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    "One has repented genuinely if one is truly sorry..."

    What does it mean to be "truly sorry"? Did Jesus ever speak of being "truly sorry"?

    Repentance is, at its core, the changing of your mind about something. Repentance may lead to feeling sorry for sin, it may produce a confession and forsaking of sin, but repentance itself is just to change what one believes, what one thinks, about something. Why is this important to clarify? Because when we expand the meaning of "repentance" to include other things - feeling sorry, confession of sin, changing one's behaviour - we layer on our own additions to what Christ meant by repentance and may end up subtly moving into works-salvation as a result.

    Over and over, Scripture tells us we are saved by faith, by believing (John 3:16; John 3:36; John 20:31; Galatians 3:22; Ephesians 2:8-9, etc.), by putting trust in Christ as Saviour and Lord (Romans 10:9-10). And when we do, God moves into our lives, convicting us of sin (John 16:8), provoking us to forsake sin (Ephesians 5:9), altering our desires to conform to His own (Philippians 2:13). God changes us; we don't change ourselves for Him. But this is what we do when we start saying that repentance includes all this stuff we must do, this work, in order to be saved.

    As I pointed out earlier in your thread, one who lives persistently in sin grows blind, deaf, corrupted and hardened to the things of God. The prophet Jeremiah made this point in his warnings to Israel:

    Jeremiah 13:22-23
    22 And if you say in your heart, ‘Why have these things come upon me?’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up and you suffer violence.
    23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil.


    In this quotation, Jeremiah asserts that those who are accustomed to doing evil are as able to change their evil ways, to do good, as the Ethiopian man is able to change the blackness of his skin or a leopard its spots. This is what we find all throughout the Bible: we harden into ways of thinking and living over time, becoming increasingly unable to think and live differently.

    Think of Pharoah, already well-hardened against the Israelites whom he had made slaves in Egypt, who resisted Moses and the plagues of God, further hardened by God to the destruction of all the firstborn in Egypt, and so hardened in his hatred of the Israelites that it killed him. Think of the people of Noah's time, warned of the coming wrath of God, watching year after year the ark being built, but so hardened in their wickedness that all they could do was scoff at Noah's warning and mock the ark he was building. Even when the ark was finished and animals began to stream into it from all around, the wicked of Noah's time still refused to take what was happening seriously. Well hardened in sin, the wicked could not repent of their evil and be saved. Think of Jezebel, warned by a prophet of God that in her wickedness she would die and her flesh be eaten of dogs. Did Jezebel repent? No. Hardened in sin, she continued to rebel against God and one day, mocking God's prophet, she was thrown from a high window to her death. Her corpse was cut up and thrown out for the dogs to eat in fulfillment of God's warning. Think of the Israelite nation that, though warned often by God's prophets, time and again drifted into terrible sin as a nation, hardening in it, until God had to bring the Israelites under judgment and cast them into bondage to their enemies, many of them dying in the process.

    Romans 2:5
    5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.


    Ephesians 4:17-19
    17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds.
    18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.
    19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.


    Hebrews 3:13
    13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.


    The door to reconciliation to God always remains open - even to those hardened in sin - for the entire time we live on this earth. However, our capacity to respond positively to that open door dissolves over time as we live in willful sin and rebellion toward the God who holds open that door.

    And what is the will of God? What is the foundation of God's will for us? What is the First and Great Commandment? Is it to do something? Go to church, help the poor, forsake sin? No. It is to love God with all of one's being! (Matthew 22:36-38) As I told you in an earlier post, the Pharisees had made a career of being obedient to God's commands. They had even made up a whole bunch of their own religious rules, too! Doing stuff for God was a big deal for the Pharisees. But Jesus condemned them because, though they honored God with their lips, their hearts were far from Him.

    Matthew 15:7-9
    7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
    8 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
    9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”


    God isn't looking chiefly at the external things you do but at your heart.

    1 Samuel 16:7
    7 But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart.”


    If your heart is right with Him, if you love God, then your works will properly reflect that you do and please God. It is very easy, though, to skip the heart stuff, to neglect to truly love God, and go straight to the works, to obeying His commands. Paul pointed out, though, that no amount of knowing, or saying, or doing for God is of any use to the Christian apart from love, first for God, and then for others.

    1 Corinthians 13:1-3
    1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
    2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
    3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.


    Here, then, is the Big Problem with the idea of being saved on one's deathbed. Love is at the heart of truly knowing and walking with God. It is the core of the Gospel, revealed in the Person and saving work of Christ. How does one at the very end of a life lived in hatred and rebellion toward God, hardened in sin, come to loving faith in Jesus? All things are possible, of course, with God; such a thing could, by God's divine power, be accomplished, but it would take a forcible reversal of all the person has chosen to become, an undoing of all their free choices to sin, to bring to pass. God didn't do this for Jezebel; He didn't do this for Judas Isacriot; He didn't do this for the wicked of Noah's time; He didn't do this for Pharaoh; He doesn't do this for all those on the Broad Way going to their eternal destruction.

    Modern Christians have grown very light in their attitude toward sin. They have forgotten or ignored the testimony of Scripture to the terrible danger and death that sin always produces. Modern Christians believe they can dabble in moral compromise unaffected; they can swim in the river of sin and not be swept away by it; they can roll about in the mud and crap of evil and remain unstained. This isn't the testimony of God's word.

    2 Peter 2:20-22
    20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
    21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  7. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I am not sure whether to believe Jesus is for me or not it seems God allows me to be stolen by thieves He could have prevented it by nourishing me and I am afraid maybe God wants to destroy me and many Christians believe in a different Jesus than I do and non Christians who observe Christianity know of that version and they believe they see that God is going to destroy me and they act kind to to me just in a way of pity as though they believe I brought it on myself and maybe I can still find the truth in their church

    I did not meet the expectations and God is still doing nothing for me how I did choose by my actions to be disqualified for the faith I would not leave Jesus that is I would not choose but it seems my actions make me question if God thinks there is any hope for me
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 7:47 AM
  8. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    There is no hope for any of us in ourselves. But there is infinite hope for us in God.

    I've no idea what you're talking about in the rest of your last post.
     
  9. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I was just not sure whether I should promote if it can be too late for a person if he did not fulfill all works one needs to do before one dies if he is not living in Christ if it is always possible to repent and meet conditions of gospel if there is true repentance I want to believe salvation is always possible but why then did Jesus say we need to be watchful. Should one teach baptism as required as far as we know and maybe communion too as necessary to give life to have it if it is always available incase Jesus meant one needs to eat Him in an ordinance to commune with Him though it may not be what Jesus meant so it may not be necessary
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 9:19 AM
  10. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I know some do not believe works are necessary but I want to be convinced
    I read the below and I thought it may be true

    The Prodigal Son: 12 Things You Didn’t Know


    Lesson 5: God's grace is not in addition to anything, writes Dasher. “The reason that man misses salvation is not because he fails to keep a specific list of rules and laws, but because he fails to see God as a loving and forgiving God who expressed (with the ultimate gift) His love for us (II Thess. 1:5-9; Rom 5:6-8). Man is lost because he fails to see his complete spiritual poverty, and so refuses to turn to his loving God.”

    People must beware of being trapped by the lies of legalism that people may teach that do not have enough trust in the mercy of God

    any true repentance is always accepted the older son the legalist is also accepted if he does not know what he is doing if he is not choosing to exclude his brother on purpose. Though they believe they have to work yet if they also acknowledge their spiritual poverty they can be accepted for they know they are not good enough simply by their works and they need the mercy of God
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 9:16 AM
  11. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    When a person is saved, the danger isn't lost salvation but lost fellowship, lost intimate communion, with God. This is the chief purpose of salvation: to bring us into rich, joyful, holy communion with God, not just into a relationship with Him.

    1 Corinthians 1:9
    9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.


    2 Corinthians 13:14
    14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


    1 John 1:3
    3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.


    When we fail to live God's way, we prevent ourselves from experiencing the abundant life we only find in fellowship with Him. THAT is the great tragedy, the terrible price, of the believer wandering away from God. But too few Christians recognize that fellowship is God's purpose in reconciling us to Himself. Many adopt a moralistic view of being a Christian, making obedience and righteousness the highest aim, the most crucial thing, of the Christian life. But this is aiming way, way too low. God intends our goal should be Himself, not mere morality. What greater, better thing than the Creator of All Things could we aspire to? What could be more wonderful, more excellent, than enjoying God Himself? And we find God, we find the delight of fellowship with Him, through a holy life submitted to Him.

    Perhaps if God were bigger, closer to who He truly is, in the minds of Christians, they would crave fellowship with Him more. Maybe the problem is that Christians aren't taught that fellowship with God is truly possible. Very likely, its both. In either case, Christians typically are fussing over the rules, over how best to be "good" people, rather than on God and enjoying Him in deep, daily fellowship. And so, the Church has been emptied of its spiritual power, scrambling to find some sort of replacement for God in cold rationality and obedience, or wild hysterical "experiences," or "sacred ritual."

    Fellowship with God is found in keeping the First and Great Commandment (Matthew 22:36-38) and walking with God as God, which is to say as His inferior, as His bond-slave, who is a "living sacrifice" to Him all day, everyday. (Romans 12:1) Stressing over baptism and communion is like fussing over the settings on your camera as you stand before a majestic, mountain vista. The mountain vista is the truly important thing, appreciating and experiencing it directly and personally is what you're standing before it for, not to get a flat, shrunken, lifeless picture of it that is unable ever to properly communicate the true scope, grandeur and breath-taking beauty of the scene before you.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 10:47 AM
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  12. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Amen!

    Brother, repentance is not the important thing, love is.
     
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  13. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    Thankyou for explaining I think I know what you mean not that repentance is not important but to repent does not require works to earn salvation but a change of heart that is willing to do works
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 2:54 PM
  14. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    Repentance is always accepted however late but if a person plans to sin then repent then that person will not be accepted if he is not sorry and just seeks to believe and as he is hardened repentance will be more difficult and one may not be willing to seek to repent but if one does truly seek to repent he can be saved but it will be more difficult he has to hate the sin one practiced he may not be willing to strive to repent but if one does seek to repent and calls on the Lord and truly repents he can be saved jesus said people have to be watchful that today is the day of salvation to accept Christ now no one who plans to repent in last second but one may simply be changed to have repented in last second if he responded to God before and repented some people did not refuse the truth simply because they wanted to test God but it was difficult and they found it hard way to accept the truth so they may have excuse so they may truly repent in last second

    people who plan to sin and are not watching can die unexpected when one does not have chance if he dies at that time to be convicted by Holy Spirit to repent

    A person can die in car accident and many other ways.

    Not everyone has time to call on the Lord such as if he has sickness and can die but not straight away such as in death bed and if person plans to sin and then call on the Lord God will not accept it if it is not sincere and one just accepts Jesus but a person has to truly be sorry for one sin and to be sorry will be a greater struggle for those who loved their sin so it will be more difficult for you to truly repent if you are not seeking Him diligently to repent. That is you have to be listening to Holy Spirit who teaches you if you are seeking Him as Jesus said I stand at door and knock you have to seek Him while there is chance to be watchful that he may teach you that you may die knowing Him


    Jesus said to Mary and Martha I am the resurrection and the life He who believes in Me will never die do you believe this ?

    And he who believes in Me has everlasting life

    Therefore trusting in Christ is sufficient for all no one is a true believer first and able to have any hope in Christ if he is not seeking to repent but the way of repentance is to believe in Christ which is got by forming a relationship with Him which is sufficient to help you to enter everlasting life to truly repent and have godly sorrow for one sins
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021 at 6:48 AM
  15. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    David platt here shows many Christians don’t have true understanding of the gospel that is the true basis of salvation and many are not true followers of Christ never wanting to and they are unrepentant of that not ever having wished they did. I do not agree that only those who believe what many born again believers believe are Christian but I believe every Christian must examine if he is a true Christian that he really gave his life to Christ before or gives what remains of it when he can if he is truly repentant of not doing so.

    It seems people need to follow Christ while they can because they do not know if they don’t if they will have opportunity to repent later

    but why does David platt say a born again Christian does not trust in one works yet believes such works are important is it because one may not be given opportunity to repent later ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twdN8Tla0-I
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021 at 12:24 PM
  16. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    What is the oil that the wise virgins need and why could the foolish virgins not get the oil at a certain time when they wanted to buy ? It seems but I am not sure that not everyone will be able to be ready to have done the will of God before they die if they are not seeking while they can because they need to do have done the will of God before they die and if they are not watching they can not so they need to seek while they can they won’t have enough time and so Jesus requires us to be watchful so people have to diligently seek to obey Christ now to be found living in Christ fully united to Him while they have chance one can die at any time and he always has to be found that he was in Christ repenting united to His will. If a person delays seeking to repent he may not be found repentant and living in Christ so one may not be saved. So people have to make sure they are fully following Christ now before they die to make sure at moment of death they are ready

    Matthew 25:1-13
    1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
    11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021 at 2:13 PM
  17. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I believe I should not cause people to lose hope repentance is always accepted to last breath there is opportunity to do good God shows people it is rejecting the least of the brethren which is the lack of charity from heart refusing to do good to christ such as to honor christ by receiving a christian and declaring before them as a witness you accepted christ or your heart is changed to accept them and also if you have accepted christ but God is not deceived repentance has to be sincere if a person plans to sin and repent at last that person may not be repentant he may not be seeking holy spirit as he is not sincere so he is not really responding to Him but lying to holy spirit not truly accepting Him

    As Paul said if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in Your heart that God has raised Him from the dead you can be saved

     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021 at 3:00 PM
  18. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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  19. Theologyofone

    Theologyofone New Member

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    In my studies I have found and understood this, that God is the author of Salvation. It is a God only work as Ephesians 2:8-9 That it is by the Grace of God and not by any works that man has done or will do. We can do nothing for our salvation. We cannot decide to recite a prayer of salvation or give our hearts to Jesus or say I believe what the scriptures say, unless God draws us to him. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. John 6:44. You see a dead man cannot understand the Word of God or communicate with Him. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit” 1 Corn. 2:14 So God is the one who gives the Grace and the faith for one to have salvation. When God open our hearts through His Word 1 Peter 1:23 we are born again. God gives us the realization that we are His children there isn’t anything we need to do. We were elected before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 and God awakens us to salvation. This could be on a death bed or when one is young but it is a God only work. We preach God’s Word so others can hear because salvation come by hearing the Word of God Romans 10:17. Repentance (change of mind) does not come before salvation it comes during or after God enlighten you to salvation. Repentance is how we maintain fellowship with God.
     
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  20. mikeforjesus

    mikeforjesus Senior Member Supporter

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    I agree I think I understand now it is not that there is no hope for those who are still alive or can repent as they are given a chance but others may lose their chance if they do not repent while they have chance sincerly to be granted repentance because though it does not always happen I think it could happen more often than I am aware of that some people die in unexpected ways when they are not seeking God and if they just call on God to just merely accept Jesus they may not be repentant for He knows their hearts if they are truly repentant

    I know and reminded from another thread Paul said do not be deceived the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom that is because people must repent while they have chance but repentance is a change of heart that some believe requires that one has chance to have much time to prove they changed but maybe it does not require much time but it requires a true change of heart to truly hate the life one lived and can only be done by truly opening your heart to Holy Spirit but if you are not repenting now you may not be given a chance you can die in unexpected ways and you could be given trials that make it harder though everyone can do it for not all will God give chance to repent later without trials

    I said in another thread the below which is true and does not contradict above post but I thought to explain how I believe it does not in this post

    God does not need works to have been done before but works are necessary to be done now and they always exist in true repentance so one is required to be watchful and if one repents while he has chance he will have works so one must turn to God while he can incase one dies in sin not being repentant and God tests believers with trials and they must overcome and even the whole world could lose its opportunity to believe if it delays as all have to make a decision while they have chance one is required to confess faith before one dies and all the world is tried and sometimes killed not just Christians and perhaps most people have no excuse to delay seeking God and must always be watchful to make sure in one heart one is truly repentant before death but I will follow it incase it is right
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021 at 4:59 PM
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