Maybe God had reasons for designing the earth and man even though He knew man would fall. This is something I doubt we can know for sure until we reach eternity and gain understanding
I think that what the Lord did in creation does make sense if understanding how to view the world. ..and much of how one views the world may be based more on what camp that they associate with/come from.
There are many verses supporting the concept of God ordaining things. In line with the concept of the bird and the sparrow, as seen in Luke 12, that goes in line with how a GUIDING Hand is always present by the very definition of who God is—-for all things in existence will always need the GRACE/POWER of God to do anything of worth—just as its by His Grace that all men have rain….for in his Providential Grace, He shows grace/care for all his creatures…allowing others to survive by sending rain on the JUST and the Unjust (
Matthew 5:45)….
This is more sin line with the theological concept known as Panentheism.
Panentheism is the idea that the entire universe is part of God, But God is greater that the universe. God is omnipresent and transcendent – that is, God contains the entire cosmos but the entire cosmos does not and cannot contain God. He is omnipresent because his uncreated energies permeate all Creation, generating and sustaining it. And He is transcendent because his uncreated essence is inaccessible to us – it is wholly beyond Creation.
Kinda like my cells and molecules and blood and other things in my body are part of myself, but I am much greater than those…and I cannot be seen in them….yet I am omnipresent through them, as I created them at my conception and sustain them throughout my life. God transcends creation as I transcend my body. Intelligence is everywhere. Certain groups within Judaism actually hold to the view of Panentheism. In example, one should consider the reality of what often occurs within the system of Jewish thought known as Hasidim. For Hasidic Jews actually believe God is in everything. Panentheism, popular in certain Chasidic circles, seems more than relevant if/when understanding God to be both within all existence and transcendent beyond all being. I personally see no issue with supporting Biblical Panentheism and the concept of God being outside of the world and yet connected deeply to it/all within it. More of this was discussed elsewhere as seen
here and
here....and as mentioned there, I'm much more in line with that specific camp (i.e. Messianic Judaism via Hasidic thought) than anything else. For more info, one can go online/look up 2 other articles under the names of
"The Rosh Pina Project (an alternative look at Messianic Jews ) - Neo-Hasidism in Messianic Judaism" () or
Radical Judaism – Rethinking God and Tradition--- A vision of God for the twenty-first century | The Jewish Chronicle" ().
One can also investigate
Origins of Hasidism & Russian Orthodox Christianity >> The Rosh Pina Project (an alternative look at Messianic Jews )y. As it concerns my own views on the respecting of nature within Judaic thought,
one can go here to get more..and to a thread I made entitled
Green Jews" and Environmental Stewardship in Messianic Judaism
On God experiencing the world, its often seen best in the concept of the INCARNATION–where the Lord stepped into HISTORY itself even though He was outside of TIME…..and experienced life as all of us do, grieving and growing (
Luke 2:39-40,
Luke 2:51-52,
Hebrews 2:17,
Hebrews 4:14-16,
Hebrews 5:7-10, etc )—and yet, by God’s Grand Design that we’ll never know, he desired for Christ to die and used men to do so ….as Christ was not a victim of circumstances…..and his death wasn’t the result of circumstances, caprice, chance, fortune or luck. It was all a matter of the Lord being in control.(
Acts 4:23-27,
Acts 2:22-24,
John 11:49-51, etc)/
Its the entire dynamic of Free Will and Sovereignty—or Permissive Will vs Secret Will…and Panentheism gives a good way of reconciling things.
Panentheism ALSO deals with how all there is not only emanates from God..but is experienced by Him as well. Its the idea that one’s not to worship an animal or a tree since it’s not the creator–but on the same token, as Chasidism ascribes to, the animal being abused is felt deeply by the Lord. He hurts with it as much as it does since that creation is directly connected to Him (As its being sustained by Him) and consequently He can feel it—just as he does with all suffering and pain in the world whenever injustice occurs.
Its why Christ said that even the sparrows do not fall outside of God’s care—as well as why He made clear that even the Ravens look to God for food (
Psalm 104:18-22,
Psalm 147:8-10,
Matthew 6:25-27,
Luke 12:23-25 etc )
This is why many Panentheist have noted that Paul made a point in Romans to discuss how its not just humankind that’s redeemed…but all of creation as well, described as “groaning” and “suffering” rather than being indifferent to it all. The Eastern Fathers and some medievals have written profoundly on the cosmic dimensions of the Incarnation and Redemption (as did St. Paul).
Classical theism views sin and the Fall as distinct from the basic structure of the world and the culmination of the kingdom of God as a gracious undertaking that is not a mere outcome of a natural process. Panentheism, however, typically views creation and the Fall as part of the cosmic process as are redemption and consummation.
Christian panentheists view the earthly existence of Jesus Christ as either the central cause of the outcome of the process or a primary symbol or example of the process. Each approach is at odds with classical theism. With Biblical Panentheism I tend to lean more so toward what’s known as weak panentheism or soteriological panentheism. That is more similar to the position found in Eastern Orthodox Christianity (As well as Eastern Christianity in general). For in that view, God is manifest in redeemed nature and panentheistic metaphors are used in an eschatological sense, a future expectation when all redeemed nature is reconciled with God (
1 Cor 15:28).
Ultimate salvation is viewed in a Johannine fashion, as participating in the Divine community of the Trinity (
John 14:20) and abiding in Gods love as God himself is love in that He is the eternal community between Father, Son and Holy Spirit (
1 John 4:16). If aware of the Eastern Orthodox concept known as Theosis, that may aid in helping things make more sense..
When understanding the theological framework of Panentheism as God being the system of systems, all creation and processes being within God, things can come together. You & all of creation exist within God. As for evil, that probably falls in under panentheism’s understanding & of the whole creation and the sustaining of it as an act of Kenosis (self-emptying for those unfamiliar with the term, famous from
Philippians 2:7 where Christ is described taking the form of a servant by emptying himself) for God. For all of creation/ its sustaining is understood as a continuous act of suffering love, where God takes the suffering of this world upon Himself.
Noticeably, this goes counter to the more traditional understanding of the impassibility of God the Father and inability to hurt Him. The panentheistic model seems to be the more biblical of all options since God certainly is portrayed as one who is affected by the state of his creation in the scripture….and in my view, it increases the GLORY of God’s redeemption since in Christ (Colossians 1-2), that redeemption has begun to occur over all creation and the suffering the Lord has had to endure will eventually come to a Glorious end.
Within the world of Messianic Judaism, one of the best places to research for an understanding of Panentheism is with others who have leanings more so toward Chasidism rather than toward other sides that hold to a more classical theism mindset. Within the system of Jewish thought known as Hasidim, Hasidic Jews actually believe God is in everything. Panentheism, popular in certain Chasidic circles, seems more than relevant if/when understanding God to be both within all existence and transcendent beyond all being. When all life as we know it is over, God will remain, the ultimate One, alone.
Yet in the here and now “every creature and every form of life is a garbing of the divine presence”. This has immediate moral implications….for the way in which we treat them and relate to them is the ultimate testing ground of where we stand. This is significant in light of many many of the endeavors others get involved in to aid our planent (i.e. global warming, recycling, sustainable development, etc ) cannot be sustained without having a religious basis for such..
There is not one physical location in this universe where we can hide from the presence of God. As King David stated, “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell [the grave], behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me” (
Psalm 139:7–10).
Through His Spirit, God’s reach extends to every nook and cranny of the universe, and there is—as David wrote—no place to flee from His presence. Others may say “But if God is everywhere, does that mean that there’s nothing seperate from who He Is”. On that, one can attempt illustrating it through the concept of water (although physical analogies can never fully define God).
If God is like water…the Ocean in which we are but a drop…then when He made all things to swim in Him, its logical to understand that all things distinct in the Ocean are not the OCEAN itself. They’re simply surrounded by it. …as the water surrounds/affects the rocks, the plants, the fish and everything else inside
However, all of that’s said to indicate that just because God sustains/upholds all of existence DOES NOT mean that every action within existence is ordained by God…
We’re not naturalists, Bro, who deny the miraculous in the name of science…nor do we deny creation, as Naturalists do, holding that the universe is ultimately self-explanatory. As many Christians who were scientists have noted, life is well designed…and yet we know that there is an eternal/self-existent and personal God who created and upholds the universe while also being distinct from it (
Genesis 1:1,
John 1:1,
Col 1:16, etc).
But we also understand that God does not dictate all of the actions that men and nature itself promotes—-just as it was with Christ who was killed by Sinful men, despite the fact that God held them responsible for their actions while also making clear that He desired for Christ to die/weaved it in.
Panentheism does not begin soteriologically with God’s special presence to some but with the universal presence to all, moving from thence toward the theories of special presence. It seeks to give the right perspective & focus in the face of evil. For instead of pulling away from those things that do not now manifest the nature of God fully, panentheism suggests the picture of transforming and healing them, as a healthy body might heal itself from an injury.
In this line of thought, the rapist still is being sustained by the Lord’s power even though God may not approve of His actions/decide to dwell with him…with God’s heart being to see the rapists REDEEMED and trusting in Him since even the Rapists was made in the image of God/given as aspect of the Divine….and the message of repentence/forgiveness and grace is where that process of healing can begin for the rapist, the murderer or any other aspect where decline has begun.
Even though in some ways He chooses to be disconnected from it, he is still connected to it intimately. The same goes for what was noted earlier when it comes to decline in the natural world, especially in cases where the natural world has been raped. Panentheism would suggest that God desires for healing to occur rather than the world to be abandoned altogether/demolished….and thus, He keeps it all going so that the chance for healing/redeemption may occur.
