Comic Book Religion: Which is your favorite?

[Eudaimonist]

I pick Cthulhu, which has been spattered about in a few odd comics. H.P. Lovecraft was a nut, but what a mythos.

A nut? He was an odd fellow, but I wouldn't describe him as a nut.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

I've read the Tao Te Ching twice in the last week and I get non-emotion from it. Maybe not what you're thinking, but the whole book screams 'chill out' and don't worry about stuff.

Telling people not to worry about stuff isn't the same thing as telling people not to have emotions.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[gord44]

Telling people not to worry about stuff isn't the same thing as telling people not to have emotions.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Indeed. I should have been more clear. Zen if anything is a bit more on the non-emotion thing. A Jedi's actions seem more Zen like, while the idea of the force is more Tao like. I am probably over analysing a fictional universe hehe.

 

[Supreme]

In terms of comics, I know nothing (only collected Ultimate Spiderman a few years back), but I am fascinated by the fictional religion in the Game of Thrones universe. Without revealing any spoilers, I can tell you that there are at least three religious traditions:

1) Northern religion, practised still in north Westeros. It is centred around tree gods, with worshippers going to the godswood to make their offering. Followers literally believe that gods live in trees, that faces on trees are the faces of gods, and that they have no influence outside of certain areas.

2) Mainstream religion- found in everywhere else in Westeros, this is the official religion, as evidenced by the magnificent Great Sept building in the capital, King's Landing. Priests are called septons and septa. It is the worship of seven gods, perhaps reflecting the Seven Kingdoms, including Mother, Warrior and Father.

3) R'hllor- this is a monotheistic religion, whose adherents seem to have strange magical powers. It celebrates fire and light, as its god R'hllor is the Lord of Light. Followers are, contrary to the other two faiths, quite evangelistic. There is also an enemy deity, who shall Not be Named, and who represents darkness.

 

[James Is Back]

A nut? He was an odd fellow, but I wouldn't describe him as a nut.


eudaimonia,

Mark

How do you know. Maybe he ate a lot of Almond Joy

 

[Eudaimonist]

I pick Cthulhu, which has been spattered about in a few odd comics.

Oh, I forgot to mention just why I like Cthulhu as a deity.

In the short story that introduces Cthulhu, we get to know a prediction that when Cthulhu is fully awake, human beings will lose their veneer of civilized rationality and morality, and proceed to live with amoral abandon, taking delight in committing atrocities presumably under the influence of Cthulhu's powerful mind.

That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.

To me, Cthulhu as a deity represents the destructive forces in the human subconscious that can unexpectedly burst forth and cause havoc.

In a way, Cthulhu is an interesting Dionysian balance to an Apollonian perspective on life, and perhaps a valuable warning.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[TerranceL]

To me, Cthulhu as a deity represents the destructive forces in the human subconscious that can unexpectedly burst forth and cause havoc.

That's an interesting way of looking at it!

To me, Cthulhu always represented just how amazingly small we are as a species compared to the rest of the universe.

He interacts with his worshipers in the same way a factory farmer interacts with his livestock.

To me he's about humility.. in the worst way possible.. the stars are right, his city rises, he stumbles around (been sleeping for millennia still a bit groggy, you know how it is) leveling cities like a kid stomping ant piles, grabs a few handful of humans as a snack then goes about the work of returning the world to how it was when he left it.

His.


I need to read more of the modern mythos anthologies.

 

[TerranceL]

And to fulfill the request for a cthulhu comic picture:

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In terms of comics, I know nothing (only collected Ultimate Spiderman a few years back), but I am fascinated by the fictional religion in the Game of Thrones universe. Without revealing any spoilers, I can tell you that there are at least three religious traditions:

1) Northern religion, practised still in north Westeros. It is centred around tree gods, with worshippers going to the godswood to make their offering. Followers literally believe that gods live in trees, that faces on trees are the faces of gods, and that they have no influence outside of certain areas.

2) Mainstream religion- found in everywhere else in Westeros, this is the official religion, as evidenced by the magnificent Great Sept building in the capital, King's Landing. Priests are called septons and septa. It is the worship of seven gods, perhaps reflecting the Seven Kingdoms, including Mother, Warrior and Father.

3) R'hllor- this is a monotheistic religion, whose adherents seem to have strange magical powers. It celebrates fire and light, as its god R'hllor is the Lord of Light. Followers are, contrary to the other two faiths, quite evangelistic. There is also an enemy deity, who shall Not be Named, and who represents darkness.

Fascinating to see

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Regarding "Game of Thrones"/The Song of Ice and Fire:

I wouldn't exactly call the faith of the Seven LESS evangelistic than the R'hllor religion. Keep in mind that the Andals all but annihilated the Old Religion, their sacred trees and the Children of the Forest in the name of their religion. If the faith of the Seven has appears less belligerent now, it's mostly because
a) they've been pretty much uncontested for centuries, instilling their faith in each new generation by establishing septas and septons as governesses and teachers, and
b) the Faith Militant has been disbanded by Maegor the Cruel early on in the Targaryen reign; but thanks to Queen Cersei, things might change pretty soon.

 

[vajradhara]

So... the Marvel Universe has a whole bunch of interesting things in it, about it, concerning it. one of which is the Infinity Gems. for most of the their existence they are understood by those in the universe to be sources of immense power specific to particular aspects of the universe; time, mind, soul, reality etc.

as it turns out, these gems are actually pieces of the primordial being that existed eternally alone and, being unable to endure the loneliness, killed itself creating the existing universe and the Infinity gems which are the distilled aspects of the primordial being.

that's a fair approximation of normative Hindu thought regarding Mahabrahma and how this universe came into being. i'm not sure that it's my favorite or anything however it plays a hugely important role in the overall world of comics and thus should be mentioned in this sort of thread, imo.

@Mark, i also am a huge fan of Moorecock. i, like Jane, tend towards the Gods of Chaos rather than Law even though i happen to like Donblas in particular amongst those deities.

metta,

~v

 

[Eudaimonist]

@Mark, i also am a huge fan of Moorecock. i, like Jane, tend towards the Gods of Chaos rather than Law even though i happen to like Donblas in particular amongst those deities.

Interesting. I personal tend a little toward the Gods of Law, though I realize that the Cosmic Balance is the most beneficial for human beings.

I like Arkyn of Law (from the Chronicles of Corum). I never did get a clear sense of Donblas in the Elric series, and my only information is the somewhat made up version of him in the AD&D Deities and Demigods book.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Gxg (G²)]

So... the Marvel Universe has a whole bunch of interesting things in it, about it, concerning it. one of which is the Infinity Gems. for most of the their existence they are understood by those in the universe to be sources of immense power specific to particular aspects of the universe; time, mind, soul, reality etc.

as it turns out, these gems are actually pieces of the primordial being that existed eternally alone and, being unable to endure the loneliness, killed itself creating the existing universe and the Infinity gems which are the distilled aspects of the primordial being.

that's a fair approximation of normative Hindu thought regarding Mahabrahma and how this universe came into being. i'm not sure that it's my favorite or anything however it plays a hugely important role in the overall world of comics and thus should be mentioned in this sort of thread, imo.

It's interesting to see how normative Hindu thought combined aspects of Theism with Pantheism - in regards to a Creator spreading itself out across the cosmos and giving life to everything rather than remaining singular for eternity - and Marvel was quite amazing at trying to slip in that concept. Of course, on the same token, Marvel often tended to have conflicting story lines as it concerns the origins of comics.


For some good sources of documentation on the ways God/ been portrayed in the Marvel Universe:

• God in Marvel Comics
• Jesus in the Marvel Universe
• The Fulcrum, who has also been depicted as the Supreme Being of the Marvel Comics universe.
• The One-Above-All, who is depicted as the alleged creator God and Supreme Being of the Multiverse in Marvel Comics.

As said there, for an excerpt:

Of course there are numerous comic book characters who believe in God, pray to God, and even appear to experience miracles they attribute to God. But in addition to these "personal testimonies" of mortal characters, there have been many references within Marvel Comics stories indicating that there is indeed a supreme being of the universe.

Uatu the Watcher is a member of an ancient alien race thought to be among the wisest and most knowledgeable beings in the universe. Uatu's reference to God, written by Marvel Universe co-creator Stan Lee, is compelling (see below).Perhaps the most clear confirmations of the existence of a Supreme Being of the Marvel Universe come from the Living Tribunal, who is the most powerful being actually portrayed in the Marvel Universe (aside from God himself). Whereas God himself is rarely ever portrayed in Marvel Comics (or has never actually been portrayed, depending one how one interprets a few "possible" appearances), The Living Tribunal has portrayed with some regularity in cosmic-level stories, and is a firmly established fixture of the Marvel Universe. The Living Tribunal is apparently omnipotent, but claims to be powered by an even greater being, a being the Living Tribunal refers to as the One Above All, i.e., God.




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Additionally, There was one amazing comic from Marvel where they depicted what could have occurred after the Death of Christ (in the Spirit realm in I Peter 3 and Ephesians 4, on his descent into the depths/Hades) when he addressed the spiritual powers of Hell (of which the Greek Gods and all other deities in other religions against Christ are connected to) who mocked him after his death.


As noted in the comic from Marvel:

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The image really spoke to me on how no other beings labeled "gods" in other cultures could ever dare to challenge Christ - and it reminded me of what was noted in scripture where St. Paul said "having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them.."(Colossians 2:15 ).

On the cross Christ demonstrated His Superiority to all other religions/their respective "heroes" or beings they worship - and as He was willing to die for the world, only HE has the power and right to rule it. im making a spectacle of the enemies of the Cross (as it concerns the spiritual realm) when He defeated them by His Death/Resurrection - with others noting that the moment he gave up His Spirit to the Father/breathed his last, the spiritual forces of evil were shamed/defeated and beaten. That's how I took the imagery made by Marvel Comics (back in the 90s for development) when it came to Christ being challenged by the gods of the world...for they noted in the comic where Christ had already passed/was dead - and yet the demons still wanted to make mockery of Him as if He had been defeated. But when he addressed them, it was not Him coming down physically (as Christ died/was on the Cross ) - but spiritually addressing all the false gods of the world by the Father's command when he proceeded to enter Hell to address the enemy,.......holding the keys to Death/Hades and taking it back from the false gods/enemies of the Lord ( Rev. 1:18)

It's not as if the Incarnation/Death involved false gods getting a slap on the Wrist - Christ was present in the tomb (as well as on the Cross) when He died physically ..but in the Heavenlies outside the physical realm, all other powers mocking him were mocked/defeated soundly - and it was far from a smack down alone. Christ deciding to defeat all of His enemies BEFORE His death/allowing Himself to be sacrificed is another thing entirely - as I Peter 2:19-25 and John 10 (on him laying down his life for the sheep) notes how he gave Himself up and did not resist his captors ....being led like a sheep before its handlers is silent (as Isaiah 53 notes).

However, after he died and addressed the Powers of Hell, that is another thing entirely....for there's nothing saying the Father ever commanded Christ to remain silent in Death.

Jesus, hanging on the Cross for our salvation, listened to the taunts of those who crucified Him: "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe" (Mark 15:31-32).

But His death proved his identity to many - By the Cross, the Son of God having become man, accomplished our salvation. He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross (Phil. 2:8). By the Cross on Golgotha, the prince of this world was cast out (John 12:31) - as Christ said that this prince has "no hold" on him (John 14:30) - and in dying for us, an end was put to his authority - and the weapon by which he was crushed became the sign of Christ’s victory. And this goes in line with the life of Christ in general, as God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil" (Acts 10:37-38). Satan’s goal was to kill the Incarnate Word, Jesus, when he was a baby (Revelation 12:13 with Matthew 2:1-18), tempt him to sin during his life (Luke 4:1-13) and have him arrested and killed (verse 13 with 22:3-6) - and although Satan "succeeded" in the final plot on Jesus’ life, His death and subsequent resurrection exposed and condemned the devil.

For John tells us, "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work" (1 John 3:8). And Hebrews is more explicit as to how Jesus accomplished this: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death" (Hebrews 2:14-15).

Moreover, ColosSians speaks of this destroyed work in cosmic terms: "And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he [Jesus] made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15) - Sin, death, and the devil (along with the demons) were defeated when Jesus died on the Cross and that is never a small thing - and for that, I appreciated the concept the artists did when noting that Christ cannot be conquered nor the Divine ever erased. For He was not up on the Cross after death/suffering simply taking whatever powers in Hell had to throw at him after He had said "It is Finished." For me (holding to the Christus Victor view - more discussed elsewhere as it concerns the Atonement), I've always read the story of Christ's death on the Cross as being something all the demons in Hell were present for thinking they won - and then being soundly embarrassed when he addressed them and their hold on mankind.

Christ standing upon a defeated/beaten devil is not disconnected from his standing upon and beating into submission the enemies of the cross from all religions - be it with beating or kicking, as physical addressment is physical addressment ....and for those in Greek culture, it was already a big deal to be presented with Christ conquering all the Greek and Roman Gods (cruel as they were to the suffering of man) by his sacrifice on the cross. They had NO issue with the concept of the gods being shown as being beaten and did so in order to make a point.

St. Paul spoke on the issue of the gods being humiliated in I Corinthians 8 when it came to noting their true reality and how Christ is superior in all aspects - including the issue of might...it was no small concern in a culture where the gods were always portrayed as conquering.

Some have been bothered by such portrayals of Christ before - but as I've noted to them, it's really no different than what has been presented in regards to the subject of icons at various points. With icons when it comes to defeating spiritual powers (in the cultural understanding that had relative to their times), we see this in a myriad of ways. Just as others used weapons to defeat their enemies in those times, it's no surprise that Margaret the Virgin-Martyr, known as Margaret of Antioch in the West, and as and Saint Marina the Great-Martyr in the East, often holds a hammer in her icons - depicted beating on a demon into submission..

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The concept of Macrina beating a demonic power was not done separate from the idea that Christ also was capable of doing so and did so already in precedent - as it concerns his example being that which the Saints are to follow. For if Christ didn't beat down spiritual enemies, there'd be no reason for imagery showing Macrina doing so. There is war in Heaven and demonic powers have consistently been fought against by God/His forces - Book of Revelations 12:7-10 - and Jesus defeated Satan and all spiritual forces of evil on the cross (Colossians 2:14-15), while Satan will ultimately be physically beaten/restrained further and his destiny is in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10, Matthew 25:41).

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[gord44]

That Jesus comic looks cool. What's it called?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't know if this *directly* relates to the topic, but most of my favorite comic-book characters have been "gods," demi-gods, or representatives of the "gods" -- In the Marvel Comics Universe, Thor

and the other Asgardians, and Hercules

and the other Olympians. In the DC Universe, Orion and the other "gods" of New Genesis

; Captain Marvel

, as a representative of Olympus (a really, really muddled one, with powers from gods, titans, demi-gods... and SOLOMON???); Wonder Woman, also of Olympus (I like the animated Young Justice version best)

; and the very short-lived 1960s comic-book version of Captain Action

.

I always wished CA could have been tweaked just slightly, and the title continued to see how his storyline would mesh with the "New Gods," and with Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel / Shazam.

As it concerns represenatives of the "gods", I don't know if you've ever heard of Black Panther. But he's one of the most interesting to consider in regards to his devotion to what's known as the Panther-God and his loyalty to the god he serves....from a perspective of Aminism and an African perspective. Serving that specific god was a matter of not walking in fear since fear was what was not respected - as well as not taking ownership:

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Some of this has been shared elsewhere more in-depth, as seen here:

Concerning why I am writing this...

My family and I enjoy watching films based in the comic book world - the most recent ones we saw being Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain America: The Winter Soldier.. - and part of our love for those stories arises from the fact that we grew up on them.

However, something I noticed in those stories of late is that it seems Marvel has been more than content making films on superheroes....and yet when it comes to religious characters who have always given a bit of a critique on the history of colonialism or African religions, it seems they have stayed away from making films about them. This is a wide-spread issue that is deeper than many realize - more shared in Super Black: American Pop Culture and Black Superheroes - Adilifu Nama - Google Books

• The Black Imagination, Science Fiction and the Speculative - Google Books

To be more specific, one of my favorite comic book hereos of all time has to perhaps be the one from the Black Panther - if aware of T'Challa and Shuri (the current one)...and part of my reasons for enjoying the Black Panther (besides the Afro-Centric perspective he advocates) is that he comes from a culture which has never been conquered - the most advanced in the world - and yet they are consistent with their cultural values for community and hereditary titles, as well as the ability to earn the right of leadership...with their spirituality defining their external and internal politics as well (more said best in the article entitled The Spirit of Wakanda is the Spirit of Israel | Unleash The Fanboy ). This is in addition to the fact that the Black Panther's religion can be classified as African primal-indigenous religion, also known as African tribal religion or African traditional religion and there are many portrayals of animinism in respect of nature (which I think is fascinating and has long been a big aspect to many reflections of African Christianity, more shared before here)....and the man has always been very amazing:

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[/URL]

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Marvel has yet to do a movie on the Black Panther, despite the character bein gone of the founding/original Avengers.....and I suppose there's a level of uncomfortability with what he represents. As another wisely noted (for brief excerpt):

We were first introduced to this mysterious nation all the way back in 1966 alongside the introduction of T'Challa, the Black Panther in Fantastic Four #52 when the eponymous Prince of the Wakanda's invites the FF to his land and then proceeds to test himself against the entire group in a battle of strength and wits that must have come as a bit of a suprise to readers who actually got to read this book when it originally came out.

Over a number of years, T'Challa and Wakanda were portrayed as being an exotic land of many distinct possibilities but through all of these portrayals the fact that Wakanda and it's most famous son were an anomaly in a fictional universe were people of African descent were usually depicted stereotypically and in many ways, it can be argued that a dogged refusal to mave away from these stereotypes has always been one of the biggest obstacles that have stood in the way of bothe T'Challa as a character and Wakanda as a concept. Both concepts were introduced back in the 1960's by the OG Architects of the Marvel Universe, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby but unlike many of Stan and Jack's creations from that time period, T'Challa still struggles for recognition amongst some of the same readers who claim that the lasting popularity of the Caucasian characters created back in the 50's and 60's owes more to the fact that they were created back then but the fact that T'Challa was also a 60's baby delivered by Lee and Kirby more or less exposes such ridiculous "explanations" false in the extreme.
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.... it's always interesting witnessing how most of the narratives about Wakanda show how it only survived (and thrived) by keeping the Westerners from its borders with a very long arm, which allowed a culture to develop that was distinctly and wholly theirs. ...as well as allow them to be competitors with the people asking for their assistance instead of doing things from a Euro-centric perspective.

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[Gxg (G²)]

That Jesus comic looks cool. What's it called?

I'm not certain of what the comic is called - but on the pictures themselves, I linked directly to where the images came from if you wanted to see more. Just click on it

 

[TerranceL]

Towards the end of the Elric saga he ventures into the realms of various gods of law/chaos.

Neither is good for humans.

In the lands of Law there is total and complete stagnation. A white landscape, no sky and nothing for as far as one can see until you reach the fortresses of Law.

The lands of Chaos are ever changing, never the same, the surface you are standing on may only be solid for a few more moments so don't stop moving, there are massive floating land masses, some forming, some disappearing. The devotees to chaos walk the surface and fly through the air, twisted creatures, no two alike. And then there is you, if you come to the lands of chaos without magical protection.... well... I hope you like unlimited mutations and want to join the armies of Chaos.

Only when there is a balance between the two can a mortal find peace. But that's not enough for the lords of Law and Chaos... they eternally invade any realm not their own, attempting to tilt the Balance to turn the realm into a stagnant canvas or a Salvador Dali piece.

Tanelorn forever. Tanelorn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

That Jesus comic is so unintentionally humorous as to deserve a place in the annals of "So Bad It's Good".

 

[Gxg (G²)]

That Jesus comic looks cool. What's it called?

In the event that the link that I gave on the comic was not detailed enough, one can find more here. The story is called "GODYSSEY" and It's a story featuring Avengelyne and Glory - one being an Amazon and another being a Christian Warrior for God. The plot still follows the idea of the Greco-Roman pantheon preparing to rebel against "Jehovah," As said there:

In 1996, controversial comic book artist Rob Liefeld published a crossover between two of his most brilliant creations: Avengelyne (a fallen angel based on Christian mythology) and Glory (an Amazon based on Greek religious mythology).

Who are they? How do their spines bend like that? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s? That's not important, and that last one isn't even technically a question. What's important is that Liefeld thought that the religious crossover in this comic was the perfect excuse to give Jesus a much-needed gritty reboot.

.....After Jesus easily takes down all of the lesser gods, he goes head-to-head with Zeus himself, who offers to spare him if he admits the whole human race is lame and unworthy of Jesus' sacrifice. Calling the human race lame would be an insult to Jesus' mother, and you should NEVER make fun of another man's mom, especially Jesus' mom.

..The dream sequence ends before we can see the outcome of the fight, and we learn that Avengelyne's dream was a prophecy. The interpretation of the dream is that there's a war between the forces of Zeus and God's army of angels, and it's up to two superheroes to stop it before it destroys the universe.

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[Jane_the_Bane]

Rob Liefeld? Ah... that explains EVERYTHING.