Colonization of Moon Titan: Pros and Cons

[lesliedellow]

A ONE WAY trip??!!!

What if they didn't like it once they got there?

I think that can be guaranteed. Assuming they weren't already having second thoughts the moment they left the Earth's atmosphere, and realised that their life expectancy had suddenly shortened to a few months at best.

 

[lesliedellow]

I am all for exploration, but I have never understood the need to colonize completely hostile planets just for the sake of colonization. These planets are more hostile to life than Earth would be after a massive meteor strike. Colonies on ocean beds would be protected from a nuclear war and would be easier to set up than colonies on any other celestial body.

I suppose the same reason people wanted to conquer Everest - with the difference that their ambitions didn't involve them in a total departure from reality.

 

[Radrook]

If the thickness of the atmosphere works well for wings, I suspect it would work well for a propellered drone also. Wings would actually be more efficient.

Here is a drone that NASA is planning to deploy on Titan.

We propose a mission study of a small (< 10 kg) rotorcraft that can deploy from a balloon or lander to acquire close-up, high resolution imagery and mapping data of the surface, land at multiple locations to acquire microscopic imagery and samples of solid and liquid material, return the samples to the mothership for analysis, and recharge from an RTG on the mothership to enable multiple sorties
http://sploid.gizmodo.com/nasa-wants-to-send-a-quadcopter-drone-to-titan-along-wi-1593024773

 

[Michael]

That's why halting publicly funded science programs is generally a really bad idea.

The Apollo missions helped jumpstart the microprocessor market, and Hubble images are simply amazing. I can think of many publically funded programs that I'd consider canceling or curtailing, but NASA's budget isn't one of them.

 

[Radrook]

The Apollo missions helped jumpstart the microprocessor market, and Hubble images are simply amazing. I can think of many publically funded programs that I'd consider canceling or curtailing, but NASA's budget isn't one of them.

They should be getting far more than they are now. But of how else are we going to stay ready to fight a WWIII if we divert funds to NASA?

Annual NASA budget, 1958-2015

NASA's budget as percentage of federal total, from 1958 to 2012 = a 54 year period.

Seen in the year-by-year breakdown listed below, the total amounts (in nominal dollars) that NASA has been budgeted from 1958 to 2011 amounts to $526.178 billion—an average of $9.928 billion per year.

Budget of NASA - Wikipedia

In Stark Contrast:

Military Spending during just a year period: 2012 to 2013

Operations and maintenance $258.277 billion-9.9%

Military Personnel $153.531 billion-3.0%

Procurement $97.757 billion-17.4%

Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $63.347 billion-12.1%

Military Construction$8.069 billion-29.0%

Family Housing$1.483 billion-12.2%

Other Miscellaneous Costs$2.775 billion-59.5%

Atomic energy defense activities$17.424 billion-4.8%

Defense-related activities $7.433 billion-3.8%

Total Spending $610.096 billion-10.5% for one year.
Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia

At that rate:

$32,945.184 billion in 54 years for military.

$526.178 billion in 54 years for NASA

 

[Radrook]

Have you heard of the "Mars One" program which is a very long term habitation of Mars, one way (no return trip!!) to Mars some time beyond the year 2020?

The program opened the selection to the public and I think in just the first day, over a million sent their applications!!

They are down to the final one-hundred candidates and they are all intellectuals.
Final 100 Candidates Selected for One-Way Trip to Mars

 

[lesliedellow]

They are down to the final one-hundred candidates and they are all intellectuals.
Final 100 Candidates Selected for One-Way Trip to Mars

They would have to be. Only ivory tower academics could sign up for such an expensive way of committing suicide. What are they going to eat when they get their? Even if you entertain the highly dubious idea that plants that evolved in an Earth like environment can be successfully cultivated on Mars, it would be months before they produced any crops. And there ain't too much water on Mars, let alone an atmosphere replete with oxygen and carbon dioxide.

 

[Radrook]

They would have to be. Only ivory tower academics could sign up for such an expensive way of committing suicide. What are they going to eat when they get their? Even if you entertain the highly dubious idea that plants that evolved in an Earth like environment can be successfully cultivated on Mars, it would be months before they produced any crops. And there ain't too much water on Mars, let alone an atmosphere replete with oxygen and carbon dioxide.

About expensive ways to commit suicide: That reminds me of the very wealthy Michael Rockefeller who decided to go to New Guinea where there were cannibalistic tribes. Last he was seen swimming accross a river into cannibal-tribe territory.
Michael Rockefeller - Wikipedia

Here is an article about the difficulties that astronauts will face in producing food on Mars if they ever get there.
NASA Ponders Mars Farming for 2030s Manned Mission

 

[lesliedellow]

About expensive ways to commit suicide: That reminds me of the very wealthy Michael Rockefeller who decided to go to New Guinea where there were cannibalistic tribes. Last he was seen swimming accross a river into cannibal-tribe territory.
Michael Rockefeller - Wikipedia

Here is an article about the difficulties that astronauts will face in producing food on Mars if they ever get there.
NASA Ponders Mars Farming for 2030s Manned Mission

"'Gardening in a pressure suit is going to be a real trick,' said Taber MacCallum, chief executive officer of Paragon Space Development Corp."

They are not much given to understatement, are they?

Once reality kicks back in, the NASA mission will spend a few days on Mars, with a fifty fifty chance of getting the astronauts back alive.

 

[timewerx]

They are down to the final one-hundred candidates and they are all intellectuals.
Final 100 Candidates Selected for One-Way Trip to Mars

I bet, that's why I didn't send my application!

If you think an average person would be selected is dreaming!

The selection standards hasn't changed....they simply expanded their selection pool to everyone.

 

[Radrook]

"'Gardening in a pressure suit is going to be a real trick,' said Taber MacCallum, chief executive officer of Paragon Space Development Corp."

They are not much given to understatement, are they?

Once reality kicks back in, the NASA mission will spend a few days on Mars, with a fifty fifty chance of getting the astronauts back alive.

The problem is that as they travel towards mars after getting a gravity assist from Venus Earth will begin to recede out of range at approx. 65,000 miles per hour and they will be forced to wait approx. 2 years for it to be within range again for the return trip home attempt.
Hopefully they won't all be desiccated corpses by then.

 

[timewerx]

They should be getting far more than they are now. But of how else are we going to stay ready to fight a WWIII if we divert funds to NASA?

Back in the Cold War, space technology represented a "game changer". Most especially in the context of warfare or global dominion.

When Russia got the first man into orbit, US military went into panic mode as they realized the same technology can be used to deliver nuclear weapons to US soil unopposed!

There are limitless possibilities in using space as staging ground for weapons deployment. There's a current treaty that forbids such activity.

However, if WW3 does happen, even treaties like that are seldom honored. Someone with the most capable space technology would be the quickest to exploit that hole, establish presence in space and basically win the war unopposed.

So if you invest on space technology, you are hitting two birds in one stone.

 

[timewerx]

We propose a mission study of a small (< 10 kg) rotorcraft that can deploy from a balloon or lander to acquire close-up, high resolution imagery and mapping data of the surface, land at multiple locations to acquire microscopic imagery and samples of solid and liquid material, return the samples to the mothership for analysis, and recharge from an RTG on the mothership to enable multiple sorties
http://sploid.gizmodo.com/nasa-wants-to-send-a-quadcopter-drone-to-titan-along-wi-1593024773

My concept aircraft design can cover a lot of ground. It is a lot faster than a gyrocopter, much longer range, have large internal volume and can land and take off anywhere like a helicopter.

I've tested my concept using the same simulation software used by Scaled Composites in SpaceshipOne. It's months worth of conceptual studies of best possible layout for a given mission profile. The mission profile of this one is quite a few, rapid troop transport, or surveillance/armed attack drone. Unlike a gyrocopter, its loitering mode is like an airplane and it can much more efficiently scan a much larger in a much shorter time.

 

[Radrook]

My concept aircraft design can cover a lot of ground. It is a lot faster than a gyrocopter, much longer range, have large internal volume and can land and take off anywhere like a helicopter.

I've tested my concept using the same simulation software used by Scaled Composites in SpaceshipOne. It's months worth of conceptual studies of best possible layout for a given mission profile. The mission profile of this one is quite a few, rapid troop transport, or surveillance/armed attack drone. Unlike a gyrocopter, its loitering mode is like an airplane and it can much more efficiently scan a much larger in a much shorter time.

So it would require a slight modification to function in the temperatures encountered on Titan? Also, I suggest you patent the design if you haven't already. You know what happened with the Wright Brothers.

 

[timewerx]

So it would require a slight modification to function in the temperatures encountered on Titan? Also, I suggest you patent the design if you haven't already. You know what happened with the Wright Brothers.

I don't have the resources and time to patent such complex machine. I could only copyright it at best.

Northrop Grumman with DARPA did come out with something very similar one month later after I published my design. But their design isn't as good. I tested it and it is slower and not as efficient. Endurance is also less.

Yes, only a slight modification but would look largely the same. The one in the video is a large troop-carrier version. A sub 10 kg version would be a lot smaller and different airfoils are needed the propeller needs to be changed too.

 

[Radrook]

Back in the Cold War, space technology represented a "game changer". Most especially in the context of warfare or global dominion.

When Russia got the first man into orbit, US military went into panic mode as they realized the same technology can be used to deliver nuclear weapons to US soil unopposed!

There are limitless possibilities in using space as staging ground for weapons deployment. There's a current treaty that forbids such activity.

However, if WW3 does happen, even treaties like that are seldom honored. Someone with the most capable space technology would be the quickest to exploit that hole, establish presence in space and basically win the war unopposed.

So if you invest on space technology, you are hitting two birds in one stone.

They are already speculating on how to take out an entire moon base with missiles employing kinetic energy alone. Rods from God they call them.
Kinetic bombardment - Wikipedia

So the military aspects of all space technology and the political ramifications of having ann advantage oj outer space are awlweays under intense consideration. A pity that we as reasoning creatures are unable to form one world goverbme and to stop bickering amongst ourselves,.

 

[Radrook]

I don't have the resources and time to patent such complex machine. I could only copyright it at best.

Northrop Grumman with DARPA did come out with something very similar one month later after I published my design. But their design isn't as good. I tested it and it is slower and not as efficient. Endurance is also less.

Yes, only a slight modification but would look largely the same. The one in the video is a large troop-carrier version. A sub 10 kg version would be a lot smaller and different airfoils are needed the propeller needs to be changed too.

I was thinking about some interior or exterior modification to help is cope with the extremely cold temperature on Titan. Maybe I'm thinking about the wings losing lift due to ice formation on some commercial jetliners and the machines breaking down during operation Barbarossa during WWII. I imagine that a fuselage airfoil can also lose lift in the same way.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-aircraft-deicing

Remember, we are talking about (−179 °C, or −290 °F).

The coldest recorded in Antarctica is approx. -128.6 Fahrenheit.
Antarctica - Wikipedia

 

[Radrook]

Would you really wanna run the chance of being stuck there forever?

They don't see that as a risk. They view it as an honor. Some of these folks even have the permission and wholehearted support of their families to do it. WEIRD!

 

[brinny]

They don't see that as a risk. They view it as an honor. Some of these folks even have the permission and wholehearted support of their families to do it. WEIRD!

It's STILL a "risk".

They could die horribly, unimaginable, and excruciating deaths of a slow nature, helplessly watching as each one dropped like flies.

The next question is:

What would they want on their tombstones, back here, since they themselves would have died a horribly torturous death, not here, and never to be seen again here, nor what is left of their remains?

Just askin', cuz i wouldn't wanna think that someone did all that and did so with a "romanticized" notion of what all could possibly be involved, since it would be very experiential.

The "honor" part you mentioned just kinda compelled me to ask.

 

[Radrook]

It's STILL a "risk".

They could die horribly, unimaginable, and excruciating deaths of a slow nature, helplessly watching as each one dropped like flies.

The next question is:

What would they want on their tombstones, back here, since they themselves would have died a horribly torturous death, not here, and never to be seen again here, nor what is left of their remains?

Just askin', cuz i wouldn't wanna think that someone did all that and did so with a "romanticized" notion of what all could possibly be involved, since it would be very experiential.

The "honor" part you mentioned just kinda compelled me to ask.

The honor of being remembered as martyrs if they do die en route to their glorious destination I suppose. I wouldn't do it so I can't really argue in favor of it. Neither do I admire the risk taken with the present stage of technology. I mention it because I know it's a factor based on interviews I have seen where the volunteers repeatedly mention the honor of having done something on behalf of mankind and being forever remembered for it.