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Col 2:16 is about not judging others

HIM

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You do realize that we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who gave himself for us means that we have become that which we beheld. The Law, God's Word being in our hearts through Christ through His Spirit. Us being a New Creation in Christ Jesus. We no longer obey because we have to but because we want to because of who we are in Him. It is to be an age of sinlessness. But alas we like the Book and being under it don't we?
 
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HIM

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Hi Ryan! What gave you that idea? Galatians Speaks of the Law in it's entirety not just the ceremonial. If we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ Lives in us and the life we now live in the flesh is by the Faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. We are a new creature of the same Spirit for the Law, the Word now part of us. For He was to be the first among many brethren. No longer being told what to do by an external source. For we are a new creation in Christ Jesus living by God's Spirit and not by the Schoolmaster, the Book of the Law.
 
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BABerean2

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Yes.

I also realize the battle between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant began in Acts chapter 15 and continues to this day.

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.

.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes.
I also realize the battle between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant began in Acts chapter 15
.

Not true.

The Old Covenant is what we see in Rom 3:19-21 reminding us that the Law of God condemns all the world to this very day - just as it did condemn Adam and Eve - as sinners for "all have sinned". This reveals that all need a Savior not "just the gentiles".

The New Covenant - as we see it in Jer 31:31-34 (and in Heb 8:6-12) pointed out that the "LAW of God is written on the heart and mind" for the born-again believer. This is the only way that Moses and Elijah stand in glory with Christ in Matt 17 before the cross even happens.
 
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BobRyan

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Hi Ryan! What gave you that idea? Galatians Speaks of the Law in it's entirety not just the ceremonial. If we are dead nevertheless we live.

Well in the sense you are using it "we were dead in trespasses and sins" it is not a reference to the ceremonial law at all - only the moral law has mankind dead in trespasses and sin. So in that context being "under the Law" as in Rom 3:19-21 means to be under the condemnation of the Law. Where all have sinned and all need salvation.

Which is the use of it I am stating here

BobRyan said:
in general Paul uses the term with respect to condemnation under the moral of God without the Gospel benefit of salvation.

I am looking up the context for this next one - might be a typo on my part.

BobRyan said:
The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- in its most favorable light - means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith.

==================== here is the full context for that statement


And I said of Gal 4:24-25
The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- in its most favorable light - means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith.​

Paul is speaking of unsaved Jews (by contrast to the saved Jews of which all the Apostles are examples).

The unsaved Jew was under the Law both moral and ceremonial. Even saved Jews were free to observe the feast days as we see in Rom 14 and in the sense that even Paul was still observing things like feast of unleavened bread and taking vows in the temple. The unsaved Jew at that time was not aware of Christ as the Messiah that had died for their sins so for them it was "no change at all" from a time 100 years prior -- nothing had changed. So then they did not accept Christ and they were still following all the same liturgy of the nation church setup by God at Sinai.

Paul says this in Heb 10
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
 
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BABerean2

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


.
 
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HIM

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Happy Sabbath brother!
Where does it say "were dead in trespasses and sins" in Galatians in respect to 2:20? And Romans 3 does not say under the Law it says in the law or by the law. Look at the Greek.


And I said of Gal 4:24-25
The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- in its most favorable light - means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith.​
Here in chapter 3 of Galatians is the first time the phrase "under the law" is used. If we take into account the grammar a reason is given that explains what the phrase "under the law" means in the very next verse. Verse 24 starts with the word "therefore". It says the Law was our schoolmaster, our tutor, our teacher. And this is said in context to the law being said that it was added because of transgressions in verse 19. So that means the Law which is our teacher told us what sin is and what to do about it. And more importantly God's will. This point is even further emphasized in verse 10 where it states, "cursed is everyone that continues not in ALL things written in the Book of the Law to do them" ALL things means just that. Ceremonial and Moral laws not just the ceremonial. Then in verse 25 it states that after THE Faith has came we are no longer under the Law in respect to it being our schoolmaster, our teacher to let us know what sin is, God's will for our lives. So what is "THE FAITH" that has come that took the place of us being under the schoolmaster, the law that was ADDED because of our transgressions.




Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Romans 14 is not speaking of the Book of the Law. It is about subjective opinions.

How do we know. Outside of the fact verse one states just that. Nowhere is it even implied that one must only eat herbs in the Book of the Law or that one can eat everything.

(Rom 14:1,2 NET) Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

(Rom 14:1,2 TS2009) And receive him who is weak in the belief, not criticising his thoughts.
One indeed believes to eat all food, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.


Amen! After repeating the New Covenant, that God's Law are in our hearts and minds in chapter 8. Which include the Ten and the other Morals contained in the Book of the Law. God goes on to show the what and why the ceremonial and sacrificial Laws pertaining to the Tabernacle and it's service are not included in hearts in chapter 9 and 10.
 
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HIM

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Verse 8 and 16 are talking about two different issues. Tradition and vain things of men and the ceremonial laws contained in the Book of the Law which are a shadow of things to come, but the Body is Christ
 
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HIM

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Galatians not Acts or Hebrews.
 
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BABerean2

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Galatians not Acts or Hebrews.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

.
 
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daq

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

.

What a difference a manuscript family can make:

Acts 15:24 ASV
24 Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

This therefore is a disputed verse and the only possibility for resolving it would be to engage in textual criticism, (which is not like an exact science to begin with). "Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law" only occurs in the Byzantine family of manuscripts and texts.
 
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HIM

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

.
So now you wish to move to Acts because you don't actually have an argument against what was shown to you in Galatians and you concede? Why not repent and recant?
 
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HIM

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The Alexandrian text was non existent until 1800's. So until then we had not the truth and God had us in darkness? That is what you are saying, right?
 
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Bob S

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After serving my time in the SDA church (40 years) I know a little bit whole lot about what they believe. One of the series of books published by the church is called the Testimonies. In those nine volumes are full of the most judgmental writings I have ever read. The SDA prophet has most all people, since 1844, doomed to Hell because we know there was a Sabbath that was given to the Israelites and we don't observe it. The writings of said prophet are deemed as being canon or equal to scripture.

What your church is doing is real judging Bob. Refuting those claims is not judging. No one tis telling you that you are going to Hell for keeping the Sabbath.
And when those who claim the rest of us have to observe the Sabath and quote "keep the commandments of God" try to relate that to keeping the ten commandments, we know something is fishy. Nowhere does it tell us it is the ten commandments. That is only an opinion. Adam had commands, Noah had commands, the Israelites had 613 commands. Christians have commands and the greatest command we have is loving others as Jesus loves us and loving God with all our hearts. How is it your church can judge others for keeping the commands Jesus gave us in His new covenant??
 
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HIM

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Happy Sabbath brother!

Where does it say "were dead in trespasses and sins" in Galatians in respect to 2:20? And Romans 3 does not say under the Law it says in the law or by the law. Look at the Greek.


Romans 14 is not speaking of the Book of the Law. It is about subjective opinions.

How do we know. Outside of the fact verse one states just that. Nowhere is it even implied that one must only eat herbs in the Book of the Law or that one can eat everything.

(Rom 14:1,2 NET) Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

(Rom 14:1,2 TS2009) And receive him who is weak in the belief, not criticising his thoughts.
One indeed believes to eat all food, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.


Amen! After repeating the New Covenant, that God's Law are in our hearts and minds in chapter 8. Which include the Ten and the other Morals contained in the Book of the Law. God goes on to show the what and why the ceremonial and sacrificial Laws pertaining to the Tabernacle and it's service are not included in hearts in chapter 9 and 10.
 
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daq

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The Alexandrian text was non existent until 1800's. So until then we had not the truth and God had us in darkness? That is what you are saying, right?

Are you aware that Koine Greek was lost to the world for some time? Are you aware that when the KJV was first translated they did not even realize they were translating Koine Greek? Who is credited with the discovery that the N/T is written in Koine Greek? I do not remember his name off the top of my head but it was after the 1611 KJV by at least a hundred years if my memory serves me correctly.

As for darkness, no, I myself can read that text and see what was inserted because of context, understanding, and the contradiction(s) created by the addition. As for anyone else, I cannot speak, but let each be taught of Elohim and not of man.
 
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daq

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The Alexandrian text was non existent until 1800's. So until then we had not the truth and God had us in darkness? That is what you are saying, right?

The systemic antinomian bias in the Byzantine/TR textual tradition begins to become rather apparent with a serious open-minded study of the following passages in their contexts.

Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20 (1Cor 11:25), Acts 15:24, Acts 21:25, (many more).
 
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Leaf473

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God hasn't given us an exact copy of the scriptures? I agree.

That leads me to believe that the important thing is to look for general themes in the scriptures. Also, check to see what the early church thought the New Testament meant, since they were really close to it and often native speakers, etc.
 
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FredVB

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The perfect will of Yahweh, which few look for, to change what they would need to for that, is shown in Genesis 1, with really including verse 29 with it. Changes in scriptures from what is stated earliest are for concessions to those with hardened hearts in this fallen condition with our world. Yahweh will not leave it all this way, the restoration toward that is shown with promise in prophecies revealed from Yahweh to us, which can include us with our repentant faith being in Christ.
 
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HIM

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The perfect will of Yahweh, which few look for, to change what they would need to for that, is shown in Genesis 1, with really including verse 29 with it.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Changes in scriptures from what is stated earliest are for concessions to those with hardened hearts in this fallen condition with our world.

What changes?
Yahweh will not leave it all this way, the restoration toward that is shown with promise in prophecies revealed from Yahweh to us, which can include us with our repentant faith being in Christ.
Amen!
 
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