COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[stuart lawrence]

Yes it does. It points out sin and makes nothing perfect that all may become guilty. Sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death. The letter does indeed kill because it points out sin.

Nonsense
The legalistic law pointed out sin but that could be faultlessly obeyed. So that wasn't the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation was it.
Your reasoning is totally flawed

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why oh why does Paul repeatedly state you can have no righteousness of observing the law?
If you could obey it he wouldn't have made that his core message would he.
And what law could Saul not obey?
He faultlessly observed the legalistic law( phil3:6) as did every other Pharisee
Si what law condemned him?
Thou shalt not covet!!!!

Because we have only filthy rags. Our righteousness is in Christ. He needs to make us clean and white as snow and give us a new life to walk in the Spirit so we can walk in newness of life and be free from sin

 

[stuart lawrence]

Because we have only filthy rags. Our righteousness is in Christ. He needs to make us clean and white as snow and give us a new life to walk in the Spirit so we can walk in newness of life and be free from sin

Paul the christian, who had the Holy Spirit said the law written on Stone was the ministry of death and condemnation/ the letter that kills.
Oh that you could see

 

[stuart lawrence]

So why specifically was the law written in stone the letter that kills?
I'm sure Paul didn't steal. The Bible doesn't say he himself murdered anyone as a Pharisee. He wouldn't have committed the physical act of adultery or much else. So where was the problem?
.
Read rom ch7

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nonsense
The legalistic law pointed out sin but that could be faultlessly obeyed. So that wasn't the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation was it.
Your reasoning us totally flawed

Stuart,
Nice talking to you. I need to go do some work now. Perhaps we can chat more latter. Let God's Word judge between us. I do not judge you. I will let you have the last say as you need it more than I do. Who am I is what I ask myself. Without him I can do nothing. I love him and abide in him and his Spirit bares witness with my spirit that God's Word is true. If we love Jesus we must follow him. He must increase and I must decrease. We must point all to the Word because it is here that we find Jesus.

In Christ Always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Stuart,
Nice talking to you. I need to go do some work now. Perhaps we can chat more latter. Let God's Word judge between us. I do not judge you. I will let you have the last say as you need it more than I do. Who am I is what I ask myself. Without him I can do nothing. I love him and abide in him and his Spirit bares witness with my spirit that God's Word is true. If we love Jesus we must follow him. He must increase and I must decrease. We must point all to the Word because it is here that we find Jesus.

In Christ Always!

Yes, let Gods word judge between us, absolutely
Paul the christian, who wrote half the books of Gods word in the NT, and had the Holy Spirit, stated, in the present tense:
The letter kills. It is the ministry of death and condemnation
He was referring to the TC

The Pharisees of Jesus day were sticklers for obeying the law, but they couldn't obey it on the inside. So what must they have done?
Made excuses for breaking them, by claiming they haven't, as you must also
For if Paul is correct, and the TC are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation, you will break them, but have to claim you don't really

BTW

I don't judge you either. I've never told anyone who claims to be a christian they cannot be one

 

[stuart lawrence]

If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
1john1:8

 

[Dig4truth]

Stop making excuses for sin.
If you have impure thoughts you break the tenth commandment.
Therefore, according to your repeated statements you have broken all of the TC

What do you think was the sin Paul was speaking of that brought condemnation to him in rom ch7
What was the evil he kept on doing?

Paul didn't make excuses for impure thoughts!

You should reflect on WHY Paul stated the TC were the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation.
I genuinely believe it is tragic you are unable to do so

Are you suggesting that the TC are written on our hearts but that we should not acknowledge them if they are written down somewhere?

I'm just trying to understand your position.

 

[Dig4truth]

Well you are rejecting what the Bible plainly states:
The letter of the TC kills( present tense)

The Pharisees of Jesus day, who earnestly stressed the law must be obeyed would have thought up excuses for their sin on the inside. It's what people have to do who INSIST( one way or another) you must obey the law to attain to heaven

Do you not understand the difference between obeying the commands to earn salvation, and obeying the commands to show our love for God and our neighbors?

Do you not understand this distinction? One is trying to earn salvation and the other is a response of our salvation. Would you agree?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Are you suggesting that the TC are written on our hearts but that we should not acknowledge them if they are written down somewhere?

I'm just trying to understand your position.

One of the two main clauses if the NC states:
I WILL( God does it) write my laws in their minds
And place them in their hearts

What is in your mind, you in your mind must know. The law in your heart MUST being heartfelt conviction you sin when you wilfully transgress it. For:
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

You cannot hide from that law for it is in your most inward parts, written on your mind and placed in your heart.
Therefore, the truly born again believer has inner conviction of sin/ Gods laws, for that is where they have been placed.. They are convicted from within concerning applicable law, NOT through reading what is written in ink in the OT

 

[stuart lawrence]

Do you not understand the difference between obeying the commands to earn salvation, and obeying the commands to show our love for God and our neighbors?

Do you not understand this distinction? One is trying to earn salvation and the other is a response of our salvation. Would you agree?

Absolutely. One is a law if righteousness, one isn't. Paul's core message was one of no righteousness of observing the law. But he still stated the letter kills
And john tells us if we claim to be without sin we are deceived, and the truth is not in us

 

[stuart lawrence]

Here we go I will just repost # 1320 for all to read... Having impure thoughts is not sin. It is temptation to sin. Sin is making the impure thought your own. Read the post and the scriptures (Italics). You indeed twist what I say.

Post # 1320

Everyone will have impure thoughts. This is walking in the flesh and the desire to sin. Impure thoughts however are temptations from the enemy. They become sin to us when we make them our own. As it is written; Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Salvation is having the victory over temptation to sin.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

God's Word is God's power to free us from them to receive the mind of Christ. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. If we cast them down with the promises of God's Word they are not sin but resisted temptations to sin. As it is written. Casting down imaginations,4 and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; and again; For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. and again; Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye2 shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

This is why Jesus says;

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

In Christ Always!

I refer to your last paragraph in particular, your quote from John.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin. He cannot sin for he is born of God.

You state if we cast them down( sinful thoughts) with the promises of Gods word they are. NOT sin but resisted temptations.
You have also many times stated if we break one of the TC we break them all
And, in Christians the law/ TC is fulfilled by love.
You also continually state the Christians judgement will be based on the TC

Now you can hardly say I am misquoting you in the above can you.
The person mentioned in rom ch7:14-24 was:
Sold as a slave to sin/ breaking Gods laws. And in that chapter, the sin described he was a slave to breaking was one of the TC.
The man could not do the good he wanted to do, but rather the evil/ sin he did not want to do this he kept on doing.
He had the desire to do what is good but could not carry it out

Such a man clearly fails your tests big time to be in a saved state. He isn't, according to what you wrote taking sinful thoughts captive and therefore not committing sin. He plainly states he IS sold as a slave to sin. He is continually gratifying the lusts/ desires of the flesh

Yet when I asked you many times to state whether Saul the Pharisee or Paul the christian was being spoken of in those verses, you REFUSED to directly answer the simple question didnt you. You wanted clarification.
You would not state the words:
Saul the Pharisee
Or
Paul the christian
in response to what I continually asked. You just continually deflected from answering
Why?

According to what you have stated in the above post it was the easiest of questions to answer.

So what does this prove?
You are very confused about this subject and the truth is not in you concerning it.
John sums it up well:

If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1john1:8

There is copy/ pasting the same old posts, with scriptures that people only have a literal understanding of, and there is understanding the true spiritual message contained in the letter. And they are two completely different things

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I refer to your last paragraph in particular, your quote from John.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin. He cannot sin for he is born of God.

You state if we cast them down( sinful thoughts) with the promises of Gods word they are. NOT sin but resisted temptations.
You have also many times stated if we break one of the TC we break them all
And, in Christians the law/ TC is fulfilled by love.
You also continually state the Christians judgement will be based on the TC

Now you can hardly say I am misquoting you in the above can you.
The person mentioned in rom ch7:14-24 was:
Sold as a slave to sin/ breaking Gods laws. And in that chapter, the sin described he was a slave to breaking was one of the TC.
The man could not do the good he wanted to do, but rather the evil/ sin he did not want to do this he kept on doing.
He had the desire to do what is good but could not carry it out

Such a man clearly fails your tests big time to be in a saved state. He isn't, according to what you wrote taking sinful thoughts captive and therefore not committing sin. He plainly states he IS sold as a slave to sin. He is continually gratifying the lusts/ desires of the flesh

Yet when I asked you many times to state whether Saul the Pharisee or Paul the christian was being spoken of in those verses, you REFUSED to directly answer the simple question didnt you. You wanted clarification.
You would not state the words:
Saul the Pharisee
Or
Paul the christian
in response to what I continually asked. You just continually deflected from answering
Why?

According to what you have stated in the above post it was the easiest of questions to answer.

So what does this prove?
You are very confused about this subject and the truth is not in you concerning it.
John sums it up well:

If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1john1:8

There is copy/ pasting the same old posts, with scriptures that people only have a literal understanding of, and there is understanding the true spiritual message contained in the letter. And they are two completely different things

Stuart, you still do not get it do you? In Romans Chapter 7 Paul is talking about the natural man walking in the flesh (carnal mind of sinful thoughts) that receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know then because they are foolishness unto him. This is the place that God's Law brings all of is where we finally see ourselves as God sees us as sinners clothed in filthy rags in need of a Savior. (Romans 7:1-24) Paul then concludes Romans Chapter 7 by saying these words..........

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)

then we continue straight away with........

Romans 8:1-13
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you. 12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Hence the scriptures....

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Hope this helps, late my time talk latter...

 

[stuart lawrence]

Stuart, you still do not get it do you? In Romans Chapter 7 Paul is talking about the natural man walking in the flesh (carnal mind of sinful thoughts) that receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know then because they are foolishness unto him. This is the place that God's Law brings all of is where we finally see ourselves as God sees us as sinners clothed in filthy rags in need of a Savior. (Romans 7:1-24) Paul then concludes Romans Chapter 7 by saying these words..........

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)

then we continue straight away with........

Romans 8:1-13
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you. 12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Hence the scriptures....

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Hope this helps, late my time talk latter...

Oh I get it. But you don't. For you cannot answer a very simple question can you:
Does Romans 7:14-24 refer specifically to paul the christian or Saul the Pharisee?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Stuart, you still do not get it do you? In Romans Chapter 7 Paul is talking about the natural man walking in the flesh (carnal mind of sinful thoughts) that receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know then because they are foolishness unto him. This is the place that God's Law brings all of is where we finally see ourselves as God sees us as sinners clothed in filthy rags in need of a Savior. (Romans 7:1-24) Paul then concludes Romans Chapter 7 by saying these words..........

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)

then we continue straight away with........

Romans 8:1-13
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you. 12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Hence the scriptures....

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Hope this helps, late my time talk latter...

.

 

[stuart lawrence]

People come on the internet and quote the letter rigidly, telling you, you must obey it in order to be a christian. They set the level required to be in a saved state.
When they are then asked who specifically is being referred to in rom 7:14-24, they balk at answering. For, if they were honest, they much relate to the man mentioned in those verses.
However they cannot admit it, for they wouldn't be living up to the message they preach.
Tragically, so many are shut out of the kingdom because people preach a message they cannot and do not live up to in their own lives. And many give up with Christianity, trying to follow such a message and inevitably failing to do so, not realising the people preaching this message do not live up to it either in their own lives.
Crushing others this way, and shutting others out of the kingdom is NOT loving your neighbour as yourself.
Christ's law is being ignored( gal6:2)
But does this matter in theological debates?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Stuart, you still do not get it do you? In Romans Chapter 7 Paul is talking about the natural man walking in the flesh (carnal mind of sinful thoughts) that receives not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know then because they are foolishness unto him. This is the place that God's Law brings all of is where we finally see ourselves as God sees us as sinners clothed in filthy rags in need of a Savior. (Romans 7:1-24) Paul then concludes Romans Chapter 7 by saying these words..........

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)

then we continue straight away with........

Romans 8:1-13
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you. 12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Hence the scriptures....

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Hope this helps, late my time talk latter...

BTW
Rom7:14-24 does not speak of someone who has only just become aware of Gods laws. But someone who is living a lifestyle knowing them of continued sin and defeat.
Saul the Pharisee knew Gods laws, and sought to follow them once he made a personal commitment to God at the age of thirteen.
So the basis of your view in the chapter is clearly shown to be wrong.

Your confusion is confounded by stating rom ch7 concerns the natural nan walking in the flesh, rather than the Spirit. But at the same time as you state that you cannot state whether Saul the Pharisee or Paul the christian is being referred to
Saul became aware of the TC as a child, NOT once he became a christian.

 

[BobRyan]

Born again believer - section in Romans 7

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)

then we continue with that same born again believer

Romans 8:1-13
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you. 12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.



Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Born again believer - section in Romans 7

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)

then we continue with that same born again believer

Romans 8:1-13
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you. 12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.



Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Will you answer the question

Who specifically is being written about in rom7:14-24 Paul the christian or Saul the Pharisee?

I don't expect an answer BTW

 

[BobRyan]

Will you answer the question

Who specifically is being written about in rom7:14-24 Paul the christian or Saul the Pharisee?

I don't expect an answer BTW

Ad hominem much?

Both are described in Romans 7.

At the start Paul describes the lost person condemned by the LAW -- the sinful nature of Romans 3:14-20 condemned by the Law and "not seeking after God" for as Paul said "there is no one that seeks after God -- no not one".

Then we have the Romans 7 statement about being released from that condemnation - and in the new nature Paul says "with my mind I SERVE the LAW of God" -- not at all what the sinful nature of Romans 3:14-20 is doing... and we all know it.

This is irrefutable.