Coccyx - tale of a creationist disinformation post

[sfs]

I guess you can see why I am skeptical of any claims that "pseudogenes" are non-functional, or that they provide "evidence" of common ancestry.

What fraction of pseudogenes have been found to be functional? Do identified functions of pseudogenes include the entire gene? Why would any designer use processed genes as a design element?

 

[Bible Research Tools]

What about all of the Christians and other theists who have no problem accepting evolution while remaining loyal to their faith and their religions?

I accepted evolution at one time; in fact not too many years back. But once I took a close look at it (and after receiving pointers from a friend on the many contradictions in the fossil record), I have not looked back.

I must admit I am surprised at how well the data fits the global flood model, and how poorly it fits the evolution model.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

The theory of evolution has always had an uphill battle not because of a lack of evidence or because of the presence of conflicting evidence, but because a lot of people dislike it on an emotional level because they think it conflicts with their religion.

I disagree. Evolution has had it rather easy for much of the past 150 years; but it will not from this point forward due to challenges from those who can see right through the illogic of it all.

Dan

 

[Brightmoon]

I accepted evolution at one time; in fact not too many years back. But once I took a close look at it (and after receiving pointers from a friend on the many contradictions in the fossil record), I have not looked back.

I must admit I am surprised at how well the data fits the global flood model, and how poorly it fits the evolution model.

Dan

Creationist pseudoscience looks good but if you try to use it or examine it deeply, that’s when you run into problems . I posted the “dinosaur dancing floor “ because I wanted to see what you’d say about obvious hardened sediment with footprints in it - That’s now vertical . You don’t seem to get it that this had to turn into rock before it became vertical otherwise it would have crumbled like hardened mud does . That’s not caused by a flood or even a Flood. And it’s certainly older than 10,000 years

 

[Bible Research Tools]

You're not going to start whining about the "Lost Cause" are you?

You have me mixed up with someone else. Whiners sulk and are easily offended.

Dan

 

[Brightmoon]

You have me mixed up with someone else. Whiners sulk and are easily offended.

Dan

but that’s all you’ve been doing is complaining about evolution without refuting anything . Pointing out misquoted real mainstream scientists . Quoting pseudoscience practioners as if their nonsense is or should be accepted by the scientific community, despite the fact that they have zero evidence for their assertions. Demonstrating that you absolutely do not understand science is not evidence against a major scientific theory.

 

[Bible Research Tools]

You said: It is a fact that evolutionists have a cronyistic relationship with government that prevents other theories from being recognized or funded.

I'm pointing out the fact that evolution, being a theory in biology, is recognized, taught and applied world-wide. It's not something limited only to the United States.

Why the misdirection? I am telling you that the only reason evolution has such a cronyistic relationship with the United States government is because the federal judiciary has, over and over again, usurped the power over religion from the states and the people. If our nation had a judiciary that respected the constitution on the matters of religion, like it did for the first 150 years of our nation, this would not be an issue.

So by suggesting there is some sort of "cronyistic relationship with government", are you suggesting that biologists are part of some world-wide conspiracy to, what, teach evolution in schools?

I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the United States, some. There is no doubt there is an establishment orthodoxy who is very protective of their power to control and influence the masses; and they never seem to tire of bashing our traditional Christian faith and our creator.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

I don't know what that is supposed to mean.

I suspect it began here, if not before:

"I am sure you may get into Q.R. [Quarterly Review] what will free the science from Moses, for if treated seriously, the [church] party are quite prepared for it. A bishop, Buckland ascertained (we suppose [Bishop] Sumner), gave Ure a dressing in the British Critic and Theological Review. They see at last the mischief and scandal brought on them by Mosaic systems … . Probably there was a beginning—it is a metaphysical question, worthy of a theologian—probably there will be an end. Species, as you say, have begun and ended—but the analogy is faint and distant. Perhaps it is an analogy, but all I say is, there are, as Hutton said, ‘no signs of a beginning, no prospect of an end’ … . All I ask is, that at any given period of the past, don’t stop inquiry when puzzled by refuge to a ‘beginning,’ which is all one with ‘another state of nature,’ as it appears to me. But there is no harm in your attacking me, provided you point out that it is the proof I deny, not the probability of a beginning … . I was afraid to point the moral, as much as you can do in the Q.R. about Moses. Perhaps I should have been tenderer about the Koran. Don’t meddle much with that, if at all.

If we don’t irritate, which I fear that we may (though mere history), we shall carry all with us. If you don’t triumph over them, but compliment the liberality and candour of the present age, the bishops and enlightened saints will join us in despising both the ancient and modern physico-theologians. It is just the time to strike, so rejoice that, sinner as you are, the Q.R. is open to you.

P.S. … I conceived the idea five or six years ago [1824–25], that if ever the Mosaic geology could be set down without giving offence, it would be in an historical sketch, and you must abstract mine, in order to have as little to say as possible yourself. Let them feel it, and point the moral."

-- Charles Lyell in a letter to George Poulett Scrope, 1830
​

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

War against Moses? I'll admit I have not heard rejection of a shallow and theologically inadequate interpretation of Genesis described quite that way before.

Are you the one that doesn't get out much? Click on this post:

Coccyx - tale of a creationist disinformation post​

Dan

 

[Brightmoon]

1830? Really ? SMH

 

[Bible Research Tools]

Why is that no recent mammals seem to ever caught in these "rising flood waters" along with the dinosaurs? Why no elephants, hippos or manatees?

Perhaps dinos were not only over-populated, but also lived in lower-lying areas. It would certainly appear that way. But, then, my time-machine is broke, so I am only speculating.

I do know that all flesh had become corrupted, probably by the fallen angels:

"And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth." -- Gen 6:12 KJV​

I seriously doubt that God created the dinosaurs, but rather they were hybrids created by the angels, and that is why they all perished. But I digress . . .

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

I’m looking for when and where one of these creationists actually told the truth or even reported something accurately

I knew you are blowing smoke.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

what makes you think that a global flood thatcompletely covered the land is going to preserve footprints. Try again !

Have you never seen laboratory sedimentation experiments? They are amazing to watch! You can easily visualize why we find dinosaur footprints on one layer of sediment, and the bodies and bones several layers up (or, millions of years later on the evolutionism scale -- LOL!). The same for Trilobites footprints and bodies.

What is really amazing to watch is how objects (e.g., animals) on one layer can be covered before objects on a lower layer due to cross-bedding.

Dan

 

[Bible Research Tools]

Ah, so it's a private definition you are using. Gotcha.

No, it's in the public domain.

The First Amendment isn't specific to Christianity. You do also know there are other religions besides Christianity, right?

You do know that when our nation was founded virtually everyone was Christian, don't you? Hear it for yourself from the Father of our Country:

"With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles." [Washington, George, "Farewell Address." 1796] ​

I thought we were talking about "evolutionists". Now it's "anti-God communists"? It's so hard to keep up with who the villains are in this...

In many cases, both definitions apply. Some are just as rabid about their support for communism as they are about evolutionism.

Of course I have. You think this is the first time I've had a conversation with a Christian fundamentalist conspiracy theorist?

You still haven't.

Dan

 

[Job 33:6]

Have you never seen laboratory sedimentation experiments? They are amazing to watch! You can easily visualize why we find dinosaur footprints on one layer of sediment, and the bodies and bones several layers up (or, millions of years later on the evolutionism scale -- LOL!). The same for Trilobites footprints and bodies.

What is really amazing to watch is how objects (e.g., animals) on one layer can be covered before objects on a lower layer due to cross-bedding.

Dan

Again, the formation discussed in bolivia is in the middle of a megasequence. Dinosaurs would not have had any time to walk around if they were being carried hundreds of miles by giant waves, as per Kurt Wise.

 

[Bible Research Tools]

According to kurt wise, this locality was deposited by a single giant wave, as this formation is found in the middle of a megasequence. So, these animals wouldnt have two seconds to even think about fleeing, let alone would they have been able to, had a global flood actually deposited that formation. Also, the animals are going in all different directions, and there is no indication in the spacing of their footprints that they are all speeding around running for their lives in random directions.

Your response above really just doesnt make any sense.

I believe you misunderstood.

Dan

 

[Job 33:6]

I believe you misunderstood.

Dan

Do explain.

 

[USincognito]

Can I assume from that statement you do not have any evidence for pseudogenes?

Given your unpleasantness and obstinacy I don't see any reason to go into much detail, especially with such a vague question as "have any evidence for pseudogenes". I'm not even really sure what that means. Are you denying that pseudogenes exist? Because if you are, I don't see any reason to get into a long discussion of the evidence for evolution we derive from them.

they are often found to be functional,

​

How fun! An opinion piece from the Discovery Institute citing a bunch of Creationists.

Some molecular vestiges have some sort of function, but so don't some anatomical vestiges. That's a Creationist slight of hand. No one who actually understands what vestigial means thinks it means utterly useless. Some genes and some structures which have lost their original purpose from earlier in evolutionary history have been co-opted to a new function, but that doesn't change the fact that they are vestigial. The coccyx helping us to take a dump doesn't change the fact that it's a bunch of tail bones that actually form a tail-like structure in utero and are eventually absorbed into the lower part of the thorax. I have seen some claims that vitellogenin remnants in humans have been co-opted for other function, but that doesn't change the fact that they are non-functioning genes for making egg yolk sacs.

And just because some vestiges have been co-opted doesn't mean all have. The GULO pseudogene exists to synthesize vitamin C. In humans and all of our fellow Haplorhines, it doesn't do that because it is broken. We also see non-functioning pathways. Sonic Hedgehog does a whole bunch of stuff animal bodies. In terrestrial tetrapods it works with the Hand2 gene to form the hind limbs. In whales that pathway is present, but non-functional. Whales do grow limb buds in utero, but they are absorbed back into the body after the embryo stage. But that pathway only makes hind limbs and in cetaceans it doesn't function.

To deny that pseudogenes do not exist can only be done through willful ignorance.

 

[USincognito]

I will agree that evolutionism is a faith-based religion...

Which is borderline trolling.

But, no matter; evolutionists would have no arguments at all if they dropped the "creationists are liars" mantra.

A paragraph after calling evolution a faith-based religion? Oh the irony.

The evidence for evolution for Kenny'sID thread

 

[USincognito]

Phillip Johnson knows more about science than you will ever know.

Bahahahahahhahahhah! Brightmoon actually has a degree in science (biology IIRC) while Johnson is a lawyer who was in way over his head at the Firing Line evolution debate in 1997. He's even more over his head now.