Cliven Bundy

[TheChristianSurvivalGuide]

One of the many signs of what?

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Scripture which warns us that we will one day be overtaken by a world government. This is just one of the many signs, but believe what you want.

I agree with you that a one world govt is taking over and the beasts God reveals as NATIONS to Daniel thru Gabriel have been identified.
And indeed, the same beasts come together in Revelation as shown to John with one addition.
That is eschatology though, and not a current event.

And Bundy, a wealthy elitist himself, not paying his fair share, doesnt qualify as either IMO.

We should give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. It's his face on the coin, so let him have it. Ceasar claims the land the beast stole from the Indians, so let Ceasars citizens pay him for that stolen land.

Bundy don't want to pay. He wants to be a millionaire and not pay a nickel. Even the prostitutes in Vegas pay their taxes. Bundy shouldnt get a free ride.

 

[Yarddog]

Believe what you want, Yarddog. You are wrong. You are believing the mainstream media who is protecting Harry Reid.

This isn't about protecting Harry Reid. If he has done something illegal they should be prosecuted and I will admit that the Reids have some involvement with Bundy's land but it has nothing to do with the Chinese.

I posted a link and it didn't work. If you were really interested you would have gone to the site and looked up the article.

The one that you just said didn't work? I have been to every site that has been offered on this thread. I remember one which tried to tie the Chinese land purchase to Bundy but that was some loony right winger. Every other conservative site, like the one I provided in my last post confirms that the Chinese factory is going slated for Laughlin Nevada, not Bunkerville.

Just because a site doesn't agree with you doesn't make them "main stream media".

It isn't hard to find but you'd rather berate me and accuse me of making things up.

I don't think that you are making this up, I believe that you are believing your main stream media sites which are idiots or believe that their readers are idiots. It is very, very, very, easy to find out exactly where the Chinese had planned plan to build their factory, which they have now backed out of.
And, this is not "main stream media". It is a local source.
After Chinese back out of Laughlin solar project, commissioners go back to drawing board - Las Vegas Sun News

Here is an article written by a ultra-conservative on the issue citing Harry Reid's involvement but also pointing out that the plant was to have been built in Laughlin.
Harry Reid Bolsters Son’s Interests in Chinese Solar Plant Deal

Another non-mainstream source showing that it was Laughlin>
Chinese company expected to develop solar plant near Laughlin - VEGAS INC

The rest of what you wrote was just to silly to reply to.

 

[woodpecker]

I agree with you that a one world govt is taking over and the beasts God reveals as NATIONS to Daniel thru Gabriel have been identified.
And indeed, the same beasts come together in Revelation as shown to John with one addition.
That is eschatology though, and not a current event.

And Bundy, a wealthy elitist himself, not paying his fair share, doesnt qualify as either IMO.

We should give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. It's his face on the coin, so let him have it. Ceasar claims the land the beast stole from the Indians, so let Ceasars citizens pay him for that stolen land.

Bundy don't want to pay. He wants to be a millionaire and not pay a nickel. Even the prostitutes in Vegas pay their taxes. Bundy shouldnt get a free ride.

Amen

 

[Psalm 91]

One of the many signs of what?

A world government. We are the most free country in the world and in order to overtake this country, our freedoms will need to be removed, especially our right to bear arms. Once we submit to the world government, it will be obvious that we are in the endtimes but I guess that the world will have to see Antichrist in power, the sections of the world clearly marked, and the inability to buy or sell without taking the mark before they will be able to look back and see that it really didn't happen overnight.

 

[Psalm 91]

I agree with you that a one world govt is taking over and the beasts God reveals as NATIONS to Daniel thru Gabriel have been identified.
And indeed, the same beasts come together in Revelation as shown to John with one addition.
That is eschatology though, and not a current event.

And Bundy, a wealthy elitist himself, not paying his fair share, doesnt qualify as either IMO.

We should give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. It's his face on the coin, so let him have it. Ceasar claims the land the beast stole from the Indians, so let Ceasars citizens pay him for that stolen land.

Bundy don't want to pay. He wants to be a millionaire and not pay a nickel. Even the prostitutes in Vegas pay their taxes. Bundy shouldnt get a free ride.

AHS, you seem like a really nice person but you seem to be hung up on fairness. There is not a lot of fairness in life. We get what God has planned for us to have. Wealth shouldn't matter so much. You can acquire wealth and get a devastating illness which drains your bank account and interferes with your ability to do all the things you want to do, God forbid. Things happen. The Bible says that some people receive their reward on earth.

Revelation says that the "beast" is a man and his number is 666. So it's not a country. There will be a man who is the antichrist, the beast.

I bet if Bundy was a poor man, you'd stand behind him but because he's wealthy, if he is, I don't know, you condemn him. We should be content with what we have and not be concerned with what another man has. Whether he has money or not, he has the courage to stand up to those who stole his cattle and killed at least one of them and who threatened him and his neighbors. If this event had not been so heavily covered by the news, Cliven Bundy might no longer be with us.

 

[Psalm 91]

This isn't about protecting Harry Reid. If he has done something illegal they should be prosecuted and I will admit that the Reids have some involvement with Bundy's land but it has nothing to do with the Chinese.



The one that you just said didn't work? I have been to every site that has been offered on this thread. I remember one which tried to tie the Chinese land purchase to Bundy but that was some loony right winger. Every other conservative site, like the one I provided in my last post confirms that the Chinese factory is going slated for Laughlin Nevada, not Bunkerville.

Just because a site doesn't agree with you doesn't make them "main stream media".


I don't think that you are making this up, I believe that you are believing your main stream media sites which are idiots or believe that their readers are idiots. It is very, very, very, easy to find out exactly where the Chinese had planned plan to build their factory, which they have now backed out of.
And, this is not "main stream media". It is a local source.
After Chinese back out of Laughlin solar project, commissioners go back to drawing board - Las Vegas Sun News

Here is an article written by a ultra-conservative on the issue citing Harry Reid's involvement but also pointing out that the plant was to have been built in Laughlin.
Harry Reid Bolsters Son’s Interests in Chinese Solar Plant Deal

Another non-mainstream source showing that it was Laughlin>
Chinese company expected to develop solar plant near Laughlin - VEGAS INC

The rest of what you wrote was just to silly to reply to.

And Harry Reid has no influence on the Las Vegas Sun, etc. Right. I guess Las Vegas and other Nevada news outlets have no concern if the world finds out what a crook their senator is. Right. Okay.

 

[woodpecker]

We are not a free nation,

can you speak your mind...no,

look at the recent news with the basketball owner who is racist....he is not free to be a racist... The Christian brothers who were fired from the HGNETWORK because their Christian faith speaks against same sex marriage....cameras are watching your every move, and I can not carry a gun to defend myself....so much more!

We are under a one world order...NATO...OUR SOLDIERS DO MOT FIGHT FOR AMERICA AND THEIR FREEDOM, THEY NOW POLICE THE WORLD.
Wikipedia:New membership in the alliance has been largely from Eastern Europe and the Balkans, including former members of the Warsaw Pact. Their accession to the alliance is governed with individual Membership Action Plans, and will require approval by each current member. NATO currently has three candidate countries that are in the process of joining the alliance: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, and the Republic of Macedonia.[108] Though Macedonia completed its requirements for membership at the same time as Croatia and Albania, NATO's most recent members, its accession was blocked by Greece pending a resolution of the Macedonia naming dispute.[109] In order to support each other in the process, new and potential members in that region formed the Adriatic Charter in 2003.[110] Georgia is also an aspiring member, and was promised "future membership" during the 2008 summit in Bucharest,[111] although, in 2014, US President Barack Obama said the country was not "currently on a path" to membership.[112]

Russia continues to oppose further expansion, seeing it as inconsistent with understandings between Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and European and U.S. negotiators that allowed for a peaceful German reunification.[43] NATO's expansion efforts are often seen by Moscow leaders as a continuation of a Cold War attempt to surround and isolate Russia.[113] Ukraine's relationship with NATO and Europe has been politically divisive, and contributed to "Euromaidan" protests that saw the ouster of pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk however reiterated the government's stance that Ukraine is not seeking NATO membership.[114] Ukraine is one of eight countries in Eastern Europe with an Individual Partnership Action Plan. IPAPs began in 2002, and are open to countries that have the political will and ability to deepen their relationship with NATO.[115] In the wake of the 2014 Crimean crisis, various Eastern European members of the alliance pressed for NATO troops to be permanently stationed on their soil, a development that would be at variance with the 1997 cooperation agreement with Russia, though NATO says it is not legally bound by that agreement.[116]



Almightyhumbleservant does not speak for fairness, but Jesus, and the apostles.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and to give the authority what is due, Romans 13 states the same

Romans 13: 13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.

6 Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid. They are serving God in what they do. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and government fees to those who collect them, and give respect and honor to those who are in authority.

 

[Yarddog]

And Harry Reid has no influence on the Las Vegas Sun, etc. Right. I guess Las Vegas and other Nevada news outlets have no concern if the world finds out what a crook their senator is. Right. Okay.

Harry Reid doesn't have a smidgen of the power that your imagination congers up. I really feel sorry for people like you who live in such a pessimistic world. Always worried that the boogie man is out to get ya.

Harry Reid may be as dirty as the Tea Party Politicians. It certainly wouldn't surprise me but he doesn't have the power to cover up something which is part of public record like the Chinese solar power factory is. There are far too many right wingers out looking for anything which would help bring him down. This is far too easy to prove exactly where they were planning to build the factory.

You really make yourself look bad ranting about this when there are so many other real threats.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

AHS, you seem like a really nice person but you seem to be hung up on fairness. There is not a lot of fairness in life. We get what God has planned for us to have. Wealth shouldn't matter so much. You can acquire wealth and get a devastating illness which drains your bank account and interferes with your ability to do all the things you want to do, God forbid. Things happen. The Bible says that some people receive their reward on earth.

Revelation says that the "beast" is a man and his number is 666. So it's not a country. There will be a man who is the antichrist, the beast.

I bet if Bundy was a poor man, you'd stand behind him but because he's wealthy, if he is, I don't know, you condemn him. We should be content with what we have and not be concerned with what another man has. Whether he has money or not, he has the courage to stand up to those who stole his cattle and killed at least one of them and who threatened him and his neighbors. If this event had not been so heavily covered by the news, Cliven Bundy might no longer be with us.

It doesnt identify the beast as a man. It says the # is a human number. For millenia we were marked by our signature, our name, but in the NWO, we will be marked by only a #, a human #.

The a/c and the beasts are not one and the same. But thats eschatology.

As for fairness, as a Christian, yes, I wish all men could be equal. Not so much as in wealth, but as in treatment and respect.

Mr Bundy appears to feel himself above the rest of Ceasars citizens. I don't back him in this matter. And by us, sending men and women with guns to defend him, we are only elevating his elitist position.

 

[Psalm 91]

We are not a free nation,

can you speak your mind...no,

look at the recent news with the basketball owner who is racist....he is not free to be a racist... The Christian brothers who were fired from the HGNETWORK because their Christian faith speaks against same sex marriage....cameras are watching your every move, and I can not carry a gun to defend myself....so much more!

We are under a one world order...NATO...OUR SOLDIERS DO MOT FIGHT FOR AMERICA AND THEIR FREEDOM, THEY NOW POLICE THE WORLD.
Wikipedia:New membership in the alliance has been largely from Eastern Europe and the Balkans, including former members of the Warsaw Pact. Their accession to the alliance is governed with individual Membership Action Plans, and will require approval by each current member. NATO currently has three candidate countries that are in the process of joining the alliance: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, and the Republic of Macedonia.[108] Though Macedonia completed its requirements for membership at the same time as Croatia and Albania, NATO's most recent members, its accession was blocked by Greece pending a resolution of the Macedonia naming dispute.[109] In order to support each other in the process, new and potential members in that region formed the Adriatic Charter in 2003.[110] Georgia is also an aspiring member, and was promised "future membership" during the 2008 summit in Bucharest,[111] although, in 2014, US President Barack Obama said the country was not "currently on a path" to membership.[112]

Russia continues to oppose further expansion, seeing it as inconsistent with understandings between Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and European and U.S. negotiators that allowed for a peaceful German reunification.[43] NATO's expansion efforts are often seen by Moscow leaders as a continuation of a Cold War attempt to surround and isolate Russia.[113] Ukraine's relationship with NATO and Europe has been politically divisive, and contributed to "Euromaidan" protests that saw the ouster of pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk however reiterated the government's stance that Ukraine is not seeking NATO membership.[114] Ukraine is one of eight countries in Eastern Europe with an Individual Partnership Action Plan. IPAPs began in 2002, and are open to countries that have the political will and ability to deepen their relationship with NATO.[115] In the wake of the 2014 Crimean crisis, various Eastern European members of the alliance pressed for NATO troops to be permanently stationed on their soil, a development that would be at variance with the 1997 cooperation agreement with Russia, though NATO says it is not legally bound by that agreement.[116]



Almightyhumbleservant does not speak for fairness, but Jesus, and the apostles.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and to give the authority what is due, Romans 13 states the same

Romans 13: 13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.

6 Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid. They are serving God in what they do. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and government fees to those who collect them, and give respect and honor to those who are in authority.

It sounds as if you are happy with your NWO rather than simply obedient. Anyway, we'll see what all of you obedient people do when your leaders decide that everyone should have a mark for the purpose of organization and identification which seems like a sensible move. Will you obey these "servants of God, sent for your good?"

 

[Psalm 91]

Harry Reid doesn't have a smidgen of the power that your imagination congers up. I really feel sorry for people like you who live in such a pessimistic world. Always worried that the boogie man is out to get ya.

Harry Reid may be as dirty as the Tea Party Politicians. It certainly wouldn't surprise me but he doesn't have the power to cover up something which is part of public record like the Chinese solar power factory is. There are far too many right wingers out looking for anything which would help bring him down. This is far too easy to prove exactly where they were planning to build the factory.

You really make yourself look bad ranting about this when there are so many other real threats.

And I feel sorry for you that you continue to be brainwashed. You make yourself look bad because you continue to defend the most evil people in our government.

 

[Psalm 91]

It doesnt identify the beast as a man. It says the # is a human number. For millenia we were marked by our signature, our name, but in the NWO, we will be marked by only a #, a human #.

The a/c and the beasts are not one and the same. But thats eschatology.

As for fairness, as a Christian, yes, I wish all men could be equal. Not so much as in wealth, but as in treatment and respect.

Mr Bundy appears to feel himself above the rest of Ceasars citizens. I don't back him in this matter. And by us, sending men and women with guns to defend him, we are only elevating his elitist position.

I take the meaning of Scripture literally. Antichrist is called the beast, Son of Perdition, the lawless one. It is the "horns" which are countries, as in the three horns of his ten (or seven, can't remember right now) which the antichrist will remove from power. (Interestingly, Obama has removed two leaders from power so far and tried to remove Assad.)

Your previous post was about fairness in wealth. If you believe in fairness in treatment and respect, then why would you defend BLM who stole some of his cattle and faced him with guns? Is that respectful? What if they came to your door with guns, which will happen to us one day when Antichrist arrives?

You remind me of the time when Jesus walked on earth. Those who stood against the Romans were crucified and the people just stood by and watched, believing that they were helpless, EXCEPT, they WERE helpless back then. We are not and yet those who are the most oppressed in this country are backing the evildoers who want to keep them poor and oppressed. The Jews even stood against Jesus, the One who came to help them, and had Him crucified. I'm not comparing Cliven Bundy to Jesus by any means. I'm just saying that when someone stands by his beliefs the masses turn against him.

America belongs to the people but the government has stolen it from us. Instead of admitting that we stood by and let them, we fight against those who point that fact out to us. If Americans will not fight for their country they will lose it oneday.

 

[South Bound]

That is right, it belongs to us, the people, and not to individuals such as Mr. Bundy. He knows that there is a charge for grazing cattle on those lands.

Correct. A charge for grazing cattle on the land, which he was more than willing to pay to the state of Nevada and did, in fact, pay a portion to the state of Nevada. The problem began when the federal government overstepped its bounds and insisted it was owed the money, not the state of Nevada.

The land belongs to the Federal government.

Many of us disagree with you and I don't believe the Enclave Clause of the Constitution supports your position.

You cannot steal cattle which are illegally on your land. Confiscate is the word.

The problem is that the government is only supposed to act within the parameters set for it by the Constitution. So, if the cattle were "confiscated" without regard to the 4th Amendment, then they were stolen.

And what was the point of "confiscating" the cattle, just to kill many of them?

Since this is our land and not solely Mr Bundy's, I want him to pay the same thing which all other ranchers pay to graze on our land.

And he's not arguing with paying. His issue is not that he should not pay, but who he should pay.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Correct. A charge for grazing cattle on the land, which he was more than willing to pay to the state of Nevada and did, in fact, pay a portion to the state of Nevada. The problem began when the federal government overstepped its bounds and insisted it was owed the money, not the state of Nevada.



Many of us disagree with you and I don't believe the Enclave Clause of the Constitution supports your position.



The problem is that the government is only supposed to act within the parameters set for it by the Constitution. So, if the cattle were "confiscated" without regard to the 4th Amendment, then they were stolen.

And what was the point of "confiscating" the cattle, just to kill many of them?



And he's not arguing with paying. His issue is not that he should not pay, but who he should pay.

well if thats the case

but the state of Nevada did not own the land. They relinquished control of it to BLM. Many states with huge tracks of unpopulated land do this. It takes the stress off of their state money to mantain it. So Bundy was paying money to the wrong people. Bundy also stated he did not believe in BLMs control of the land and it should be in the states control.

Well, Mr. Bundy. It doesn't matter what you THINK how it should be. the fact of the matter is that Nevada gave control of the land to the BLM and you owe fees to them. Maybe you should be suing Nevada for all the money you've been paying to them that should've gone to the BLM?

You people are standing behind bundy like he is some freedom fighter, and he is just a stubborn old man who refuses to pay money to who it belongs.

Maybe you guys should be yelling at Nevada for giving up their land rights instead of yelling at the BLM for doing their job.

 

[South Bound]

well if thats the case

but the state of Nevada did not own the land. They relinquished control of it to BLM.

Again, this is not allowed by the Constitution. The fact that the Constitution doesn't even provide for a "BLM" in the first place aside, the Enclave Clause does not permit the federal government to own that land.

Many states with huge tracks (sic) of unpopulated land do this.

And...?

It takes the stress off of their state money to mantain it. So Bundy was paying money to the wrong people. Bundy also stated he did not believe in BLM control of the land and it should be in the states control.

And Bundy is correct. But the fact remains that he did attempt to pay the money to the appropriate legal authority.

Well, Mr. Bundy. It doesn't matter what you THINK how it should be.

Yeah! Citizens should just sit down and shut up and stop whining every time their rights are violated or the federal government acts illegally!

the fact of the matter is that Nevada gave control of the land to the BLM and you owe fees to them.

See above.

You people are standing behind bundy like he is some freedom fighter, and he is just a stubborn old man who refuses to pay money to who it belongs.

Actually, he has attempted to pay the money to whom it belongs.

Maybe you guys should be yelling at Nevada for giving up their land rights instead of yelling at the BLM for doing their job.

Maybe we should be yelling at both: Nevada for ceding their state's sovereignty to an intrusive and overreaching federal government, to the federal government for acting illegally, persecuting an American citizen, violating his rights, Sheriff Gillespie for refusing to do his job, and the governor for not protecting his constituents and having the agents arrested (although, in all fairness to him, his words seem to indicate that this was not due to unwillingness on his part, but to confusion about his authority under the law).

again, I say it again, blame Nevada for whoring out their sovereignty to the federal government because they're lazy.

And, again, I say "Maybe we should be yelling at both: Nevada for ceding their state's sovereignty to an intrusive and overreaching federal government, to the federal government for acting illegally, persecuting an American citizen, violating his rights, Sheriff Gillespie for refusing to do his job, and the governor for not protecting his constituents and having the agents arrested (although, in all fairness to him, his words seem to indicate that this was not due to unwillingness on his part, but to confusion about his authority under the law). "

You know what I learned being in a guard tower 12 hours on and 12 hours off for 4 months?

Honestly? Could not care less.

Bundy paid grazing fees to the BLM until 1993 when he refused to renew his lease as a protest. It was at that point that he declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority regulate grazing.

Everything is well documented in the court cases which followed.

Correct. After which time, he attempted to pay the state of Nevada.

The "enclave clause" has nothing to do with Bundy's situation.

I disagree. The issue is that the land Bundy's cattle was grazing on is allegedly owned by the federal government. The federal government is prohibited by the Enclave Clause from owning that land. Now, if you wanted to make the case that the federal government could declare that land a "fort, magazine, arsenal, or dock-yards", you'd still be wrong, but at least you'd be closer.

The state of Nevada never owned any of the land in question. This needs to be the situation in order for the federal government to "obtain" the land for the purpose of building on it and maintaining it.

Actually, upon incorporation as a state, the land became the property under the legal authority of the state of Nevada.

The Constitution gives the Federal government the authority to enact laws as they are needed and that has been done.

First of all, the Constitution is the law.

Second, the federal government doesn't enact laws, Congress does.

Third, the Constitution doesn't give Congress carte blanche to pass any law it wants to. To the contrary, it puts very tight restrictions on what laws Congress may enact and what the federal government may engage in.

Since that is not the case, this does not apply.

Actually, it is very much the case.

Wasn't Bundy killing his cows as well? That is what ranching does. They raise cattle which most eventually go to the slaughter house.

I feel embarrassed for you that I have to explain this to you, but ranchers raise cattle for slaughter in exchange for compensation. It's how they make their livelihood. The federal agents killed Bundy's cattle without just compensation.

Who he should be paying has already been settled in a court of law.

Could you please cite that decision for us?

Bundy is violation and the government is perfectly within their rights to confiscate the cows which are on public lands.

Could you please cite that law that allows the federal government to circumvent the 4th Amendment for us?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Maybe we should be yelling at both: Nevada for ceding their state's sovereignty to an intrusive and overreaching federal government, to the federal government for acting illegally, persecuting an American citizen, violating his rights, Sheriff Gillespie for refusing to do his job, and the governor for not protecting his constituents and having the agents arrested (although, in all fairness to him, his words seem to indicate that this was not due to unwillingness on his part, but to confusion about his authority under the law).

again, I say it again, blame Nevada for whoring out their sovereignty to the federal government because they're lazy. They're the real problem, but I bet eveyrone votes that sheriff back in, the governor back in, and the house rep that controls that district and the problem will keep persisting.

You know what I learned being in a guard tower 12 hours on and 12 hours off for 4 months? Never zero in on one object. While you stare at the dog, you miss the van full of explosives.

 

[Yarddog]

Correct. A charge for grazing cattle on the land, which he was more than willing to pay to the state of Nevada and did, in fact, pay a portion to the state of Nevada. The problem began when the federal government overstepped its bounds and insisted it was owed the money, not the state of Nevada.

Bundy paid grazing fees to the BLM until 1993 when he refused to renew his lease as a protest. It was at that point that he declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority regulate grazing.

Everything is well documented in the court cases which followed.

Many of us disagree with you and I don't believe the Enclave Clause of the Constitution supports your position.

The "enclave clause" has nothing to do with Bundy's situation. The state of Nevada never owned any of the land in question. This needs to be the situation in order for the federal government to "obtain" the land for the purpose of building on it and maintaining it.

The problem is that the government is only supposed to act within the parameters set for it by the Constitution.

The Constitution gives the Federal government the authority to enact laws as they are needed and that has been done.

So, if the cattle were "confiscated" without regard to the 4th Amendment, then they were stolen.

Since that is not the case, this does not apply.

And what was the point of "confiscating" the cattle, just to kill many of them?

Wasn't Bundy killing his cows as well? That is what ranching does. They raise cattle which most eventually go to the slaughter house.

And he's not arguing with paying. His issue is not that he should not pay, but who he should pay.

Who he should be paying has already been settled in a court of law. Bundy is violation and the government is perfectly within their rights to confiscate the cows which are on public lands.

 

[Ringo84]

Like him or not, Obama is in charge. Failing to respect the person or people who have been put in power is not "Christian". Neither is refusing to pay reasonable fees for the land that you use.

Cliven and his supporters are certainly not acting like Christians.
Ringo

 

[Psalm 91]

Like him or not, Obama is in charge. Failing to respect the person or people who have been put in power is not "Christian". Neither is refusing to pay reasonable fees for the land that you use.

Cliven and his supporters are certainly not acting like Christians.
Ringo

As I've said before, the verses concerning "respect" for leaders are not personal. They are general. I'm sure if Cliven Bundy met Harry Reid, he'd be polite in spite of the fact that he doesn't respect him as a person.

You've read the comments about his dispute not being about paying but who he is paying.

Christianity is not about how you "act". Christianity is following Christ and having a relationship and trust in Him. When you do that, your Christianity shows. It was wrong of the BLM to take his cattle and kill some of them. He saw this for what it was and he prevented it from becoming another Ruby Ridge which it might have if his friends and supporters and the media hadn't shown up. He has a right to protect his cattle, his family and himself. Stealing is wrong and they stole his cattle. Is that the mature way to react if you want someone to pay you money? And what was their purpose in killing many of the cattle?

Cliven Bundy is an example of a dying breed: Americans who stand up for what is right. That is what made this country the super power that it used to be. Now we are all wimpy and dependent on a huge government bureaucracy to take care of everything so everyone has adopted a "government is always right" attitude.