Cliven Bundy

[Psalm 91]

They have just as much right to purchase land as any other person has.

Chinese apples and Chinese oranges? Chinese money is Chinese money which is what both deals were based on. Where were the conservatives when the Chinese were financing the wars?

Reagan lowered taxes on the upper 1% but taxes rose on those making less than $50,000. The national debt more than doubled as he borrowed money to pay for his economic decisions. The U.S. will have to pay over $100 billion this year on the interest to the money that he borrowed.

The poverty level had dropped from the mid 60's until the 80's when, because of Reaganomics that changed and the poverty level rose throughout the Reagan-Bush years. It again began to drop during the Clinton administration but rose again during the 2nd Bush years.

The same time line is also seen in the real income levels. Reagan's "supply side economics" was horrible for the US.


I don't listen to the radio when I am in the car driving. I find that time is good for prayer. Peace and quiet with no one around me to distract me.

Drinking Kool-Aid again? I lived through Reagan's administration too, you know. It's just that you are a liberal and I was a conservative. I hope that Clinton thanked him. HW blew the money on the Gulf War and his son blew money on two wars. I don't expect my government to base their policies on my income but I remember that time in history as being a very "comfortable" time and as a nurse, I didn't really consider myself to be middle class. A nursing salary is low, IMO. I lived in studio apartments and took public transportation. My tax return didn't really change from year to year except when Dubya was president and it increased. I remember the '70's being tough and 2008-2014, so far. And it's worse, IMO, than the '70's were. At least I could afford to move if I wanted to and buy food. I can't now, but it's okay because there are thousands at least of children who are going to bed hungry at night right now, so I can take being "stuck" in a city I can no longer afford to live in but can't afford to get out of.

A two bedroom apartment comparable to mine which has stayed at the same rent for 17yrs. is now being rented to poor people with families who have lost their homes for $1200-$1800/mo. Back in the Clinton era there was a big push to buy homes without a down payment and your wonderful present-day president was one of the many lawyers who pressured banks to give loans to people they knew could not afford a home. During Bush's administration he suggested more oversight on Fannie May and Freddie Mac, but Barney Frank, head of the House Oversight Committee, who was having an affair with someone at Freddie Mac, told him they were fine. So when the housing bubble crashed, Bush got blamed. Political friends and most likely, the federal reserve caused the stock market crash in 2008 so that another Republican could not possibly win the election. Before the crash, Obama was behind in the polls. Bush got blamed for that. Bush called them "the deciders". He knew the agenda for this country so he didn't defend himself which really irked me. But I understand that he probably didn't care anymore. It wasn't his plan to kill three thousand innocent Americans or the many thousands of military and innocent civilians in Iraq and Aghanistan. Presidents just follow orders. The difference is that Obama was trained, he is a believer in Marxism and that is the difference.

He "fundamentally changed America" just like he said, though I think we thought he was talking about something else. Now businesses are still closing and restaurants are empty. Rent and food are unaffordable and the health plan not only costs more for people who were promised they could keep their plan and their doctors. Besides stealing money from Medicare, I hope that you know money is being removed from medical research, so good luck in finding any cures until this abominable socialized medicine is repealed, if ever. The president's solution? Give up your cable and your cell phone. People are hungry and many are on the streets, more than ever since the Depression. So I'm sitting here wondering how Reagan was an idiot but Obama is so wonderful. How? I could go into what he's done to "fundamentally change America" but you're read it all before. Why bother when you refuse to see.

I hope that Jesus comes soon before this country is destroyed. I don't think I will be able to see it happen. My only comfort for a heavy heart is that those who have worked toward a NWO since the formation of the Federal Reserve and many say, before that, will face judgement oneday. And that God is in control and He has allowed these things for a purpose.

 

[Psalm 91]

Bundy is basically a welfare cheat who grazes his cows on foodstamps

I see you are listening and reading the mainstream news also.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I see you are listening and reading the mainstream news also.

I believe they call it "checking the facts" actually.

Facts aren't poisonous.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Yarddog]

Drinking Kool-Aid again?

At least it's non-alcoholic, what are you drinking.

I lived through Reagan's administration too, you know. It's just that you are a liberal and I was a conservative.

I don't know why you can't get it through your head. Maybe it's whatever you're drinking. I am not a liberal and have never been a liberal. I am a moderate. I voted for Reagan in his first term and I also voted for Nixon.

The problem with most conservatives is that they view anyone who disagrees with them a liberal. It's a cop out.

I hope that Clinton thanked him. HW blew the money on the Gulf War and his son blew money on two wars.

And Reagan blew the money. He blew the national debt shy high and increased the budget deficit. Clinton was the only President in the last 30+ years to shrink the debt and balance the budget. That is a fact.

I don't expect my government to base their policies on my income but I remember that time in history as being a very "comfortable" time and as a nurse, I didn't really consider myself to be middle class. A nursing salary is low, IMO.

That depends on where you were a nurse at. Many RN's are very well paid and are definitely in the middle class.

So I'm sitting here wondering how Reagan was an idiot but Obama is so wonderful.

Who has said that Obama is wonderful? I think that he has been a weak President and have said that several times.

 

[mafwons]

Drinking Kool-Aid again? I lived through Reagan's administration too, you know. It's just that you are a liberal and I was a conservative. I hope that Clinton thanked him. HW blew the money on the Gulf War and his son blew money on two wars. I don't expect my government to base their policies on my income but I remember that time in history as being a very "comfortable" time and as a nurse, I didn't really consider myself to be middle class. A nursing salary is low, IMO. I lived in studio apartments and took public transportation. My tax return didn't really change from year to year except when Dubya was president and it increased. I remember the '70's being tough and 2008-2014, so far. And it's worse, IMO, than the '70's were. At least I could afford to move if I wanted to and buy food. I can't now, but it's okay because there are thousands at least of children who are going to bed hungry at night right now, so I can take being "stuck" in a city I can no longer afford to live in but can't afford to get out of.

A two bedroom apartment comparable to mine which has stayed at the same rent for 17yrs. is now being rented to poor people with families who have lost their homes for $1200-$1800/mo. Back in the Clinton era there was a big push to buy homes without a down payment and your wonderful present-day president was one of the many lawyers who pressured banks to give loans to people they knew could not afford a home. During Bush's administration he suggested more oversight on Fannie May and Freddie Mac, but Barney Frank, head of the House Oversight Committee, who was having an affair with someone at Freddie Mac, told him they were fine. So when the housing bubble crashed, Bush got blamed. Political friends and most likely, the federal reserve caused the stock market crash in 2008 so that another Republican could not possibly win the election. Before the crash, Obama was behind in the polls. Bush got blamed for that. Bush called them "the deciders". He knew the agenda for this country so he didn't defend himself which really irked me. But I understand that he probably didn't care anymore. It wasn't his plan to kill three thousand innocent Americans or the many thousands of military and innocent civilians in Iraq and Aghanistan. Presidents just follow orders. The difference is that Obama was trained, he is a believer in Marxism and that is the difference.

He "fundamentally changed America" just like he said, though I think we thought he was talking about something else. Now businesses are still closing and restaurants are empty. Rent and food are unaffordable and the health plan not only costs more for people who were promised they could keep their plan and their doctors. Besides stealing money from Medicare, I hope that you know money is being removed from medical research, so good luck in finding any cures until this abominable socialized medicine is repealed, if ever. The president's solution? Give up your cable and your cell phone. People are hungry and many are on the streets, more than ever since the Depression. So I'm sitting here wondering how Reagan was an idiot but Obama is so wonderful. How? I could go into what he's done to "fundamentally change America" but you're read it all before. Why bother when you refuse to see.

I hope that Jesus comes soon before this country is destroyed. I don't think I will be able to see it happen. My only comfort for a heavy heart is that those who have worked toward a NWO since the formation of the Federal Reserve and many say, before that, will face judgement oneday. And that God is in control and He has allowed these things for a purpose.

Those presidents personally have very little to do with how far your money goes, the fed on the other hand they have an awful lot to do with it.

 

[woodpecker]

Hmmmm....what does the bible say?

........

13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience. (Romans 13)
........

The only reason given in scripture to disobey government or authority is when they tell us to go against the laws of God. Example, Hitler telling people to kill innocent people the Jews and those who helped the Jews. This is against the law of God, you should not obey

Another example, if the government told a Christian not to share Christ with others,...Jesus command us to share His gospel with all.

If Bundy is a born again Christian he is going against the teachings of scripture....what would Jesus do?

 

[Psalm 91]

Hmmmm....what does the bible say?

........

13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience. (Romans 13)
........

The only reason given in scripture to disobey government or authority is when they tell us to go against the laws of God. Example, Hitler telling people to kill innocent people the Jews and those who helped the Jews. This is against the law of God, you should not obey

Another example, if the government told a Christian not to share Christ with others,...Jesus command us to share His gospel with all.

If Bundy is a born again Christian he is going against the teachings of scripture....what would Jesus do?

Jesus also praised those who give their lives for their fellow man, which is what those who protected the Jews did. They didn't know if they would be caught or not. But they did the right thing, knowing they could die, as Corrie ten Boom's father and sister did. And I'm sure you've heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who stood against the "laws" of Hitler and was executed. From what he as written, I highly doubt that he's burning in hell now.

If the laws are evil and against God, we can resist them in the name of God. The leaders of this country have had a planned agenda for a very, very long time and that agenda is to remove our Constitution and our sovereignty as a republic and replace all governments with a NWO. This will hurt many people, especially the elderly, the handicapped, the impoverished, those who trust their governments, and true Christians, all of us but in various ways. And the changes being made to our laws, like Eminent Domain, are removing the people's property as well as our freedoms. It is a sin to steal and the government as well as the federal reserve are stealing from us. I have a right to stand against it in a peaceful way in order for the masses to see the heavy-handedness and in some cases, cruelty of the federal government.

I am in favor of resisting evil and that is what the federal government has been for a long time in order to bring about a NWO. The one president who went his own way was assassinated. Another started out in his own way and was almost assassinated. Since that day, we have not had a government of the people, by the people or for the people. We have slowly been overtaken by an evil cabal and people can't even see it.

I don't know if you have children or not but what would you do if there was a law to remove children from the home if they were overweight? And what if you had a child who was overweight and you had tried to help him unsuccessfully? Would you just surrender your child to those who think they know what is best? Really, that may sound extreme but the laws are becoming more and more restrictive, unless you are living an alternative lifestyle in which that case, the government favors you. Do you think Jesus favors that?

Look around you. It's not only Cliven Bundy. $1million for grass. There is a little girl in Boston who's parents have lost custody because the doctors at a well known hospital disagree with her diagnosis and believe that her parents are causing her "emotional and psychological" problems, after seeing that her condition has worsened since she's been in the care of this "well known" hospital. Where are our rights????

 

[woodpecker]

Agreed, if the laws are against God will. Research what it was like under Roman rule during Jesus and the apostles lives...much worse than what we experience under the laws of the United States....

Yet Jesus did not fight His authority, He said give Caesar what is Caesars. And apostle Paul and Peter said obey authority, and pray for them.

Our purpose here is not politics, but obedience to God.

 

[woodpecker]

“They’re nothing more than domestic terrorists,” Reid said, according to the paper. “I repeat: what happened there was domestic terrorism.”

Reid said he has been told a federal task force is being set up to deal with the Bundy situation, adding Bundy does not respect the U.S. or its laws.

“Clive Bundy does not recognize the United States,” Reid said. “The United States, he says, is a foreign government. He doesn’t pay his taxes. He doesn’t pay his fees. And he doesn’t follow the law. He continues to thumb his nose at authority.”

Reid also suggested the supporters were dangerous to the community.

“They had sniper rifles in the freeway. They had weapons, automatic weapons. They had children lined up. They wanted to make sure they got hurt first … What if others tried the same thing?” he said.

Sen. Reid calls supporters of Nevada rancher Bundy 'domestic terrorists' | Fox News

 

[Psalm 91]

“They’re nothing more than domestic terrorists,” Reid said, according to the paper. “I repeat: what happened there was domestic terrorism.”

Reid said he has been told a federal task force is being set up to deal with the Bundy situation, adding Bundy does not respect the U.S. or its laws.

“Clive Bundy does not recognize the United States,” Reid said. “The United States, he says, is a foreign government. He doesn’t pay his taxes. He doesn’t pay his fees. And he doesn’t follow the law. He continues to thumb his nose at authority.”

Reid also suggested the supporters were dangerous to the community.

“They had sniper rifles in the freeway. They had weapons, automatic weapons. They had children lined up. They wanted to make sure they got hurt first … What if others tried the same thing?” he said.

Sen. Reid calls supporters of Nevada rancher Bundy 'domestic terrorists' | Fox News

What???? You are quoting Harry Reid as if he were a decent human being????? He is the most corrupt member of the Senate... He might even be more corrupt than Obama and his WH. Why would you listen to anything he said? He stands to make a lot of money off the land being sold to the Chinese!!!!

 

[Psalm 91]

Hmmmm....what does the bible say?

........

13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.

5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience. (Romans 13)
........

The only reason given in scripture to disobey government or authority is when they tell us to go against the laws of God. Example, Hitler telling people to kill innocent people the Jews and those who helped the Jews. This is against the law of God, you should not obey

Another example, if the government told a Christian not to share Christ with others,...Jesus command us to share His gospel with all.

If Bundy is a born again Christian he is going against the teachings of scripture....what would Jesus do?

Why Your Pastor Is Not Your Friend | Dave Hodges – The Common Sense Show

This is about the new movement to get Christians to go along with their government by stressing Romans 13.

 

[JGG]

Withdrawn

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I certainly agree but they have had their battles in court and that has been decided. He owes the government over a million dollars in fees. Sadly, I blame the government for allowing this to continue for so long. They've known for 20 years that Bundy hasn't been paying to graze on the land. They should have started confiscating the cattle that were on the land illegally in 1995, not 2014.

I have no doubt that the government has been lax in their handling of this matter. Thankfully they backed off before some idiot pulled the trigger and people got killed.

1995


He should be forced to pay the million or be evicted from his home and the homestead put up at public auction.

Surely a million is a drop in the barrel for the federal govt, but it's time the fat cats like the Bundy's pay their share.

My family of 6 makes less than 50K/yr, and Im currently on the dole b/c Im laid off. If I don't pay the taxes on my 3 properties, in 4 different counties, they put my properties up for auction.

If the Bundy's can't afford the fees, they should get REAL jobs like the rest of us, and quit living a life of privilege b/c they're great great great grand daddy broke his @ss to make a life for his family.
Not saying the Bundy's don't work hard....farming is tough work, but he's a cattle baron and he's probably employing illegals at 1/2 the wage of a tax paying citizen.
He's just an example of what I call corporate welfare. It's time the fat cats suck it up and pay their share.

Us 2nd Amendment'ers shoulda done some research before we sided with this tax dodger. We'd have been there to help the fed evict the deadbeat.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

If the Bundy's can't afford the fees, they should get REAL jobs like the rest of us ...

I'm not going to characterize this "statement" for what it is, given I kinda like coming here every now and then, and wouldn't want to collect a demerit, or whatever it might be called. However, I will say, you really don't understand ranching if this is your view.

You also don't understand "right to prior usage" laws on the books in both Utah and the USC, or the plethora of "challenged titles" the U.S. government has filed in federal courts over the years while snatching the land and usurping it before the courts actually make a decision. There are court decisions against Bundy, yes, but they are under continuing appeal until a judge somewhere recognizes that "prior usage" supercedes any claim to BLM has to enforcing their illegal land grab. Bundys have been grazing their cattle on that land since 1887. That's 127 years/ Prior to that, Bundys owned much of the land in the area before the government claimed his grandfather had no "legal title," a euphemism meaning, "We want the land and therefore it's our land." That's 127 years.

The BLM was created out of nothingness by the almighty bureaucracy in 1977, and it can't even be truthful about that much. It claims on its website to have been created in 1946 by the merger of two other federal agencies, and then produced a video which is linked on the website claiming the agency to be 60 years old. You do the math. The truth is, it was not empowered to do whatever it does until 1977.

It is nothing more than an agency charged with stealing public lands -- that is, land with no ownership record. Believe it or not, there are over 100 million acres in the U.S. that have never been owned by anyone. Bundy's land was in his family, he does have a deed from 1868 that the government doesn't recognize, and the effort to deprive him of his legal right to use the land as he sees fit is pure fascism.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

The government also took the land from native americans and gave it to bundy's ancestors 127 years ago. They took it back and now he is crying foul for his family profiting off of someone else's trouble over 127 years ago. If anything they should give the land back to its original owners.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Here is another opinion:
Sheriff Mack, CSPOA, Oathkeepers, State Legislators & America Stands with Cliven Bundy | Dave Hodges – The Common Sense Show

On the rest of your post that I edited out......it's a pick your poison. Both the Democrips and Rebloodlicans are globalists. The NWO is being pushed on us from both sides, and the centrists, are divided as well, by one means or another.


But as for your posting of this link........

Why should the Bundy family get welfare for over millenia, while working stiffs like us are routinely foreclosed on by whichever entity we fail to pay, be it public or private sector?

We were duped into siding with the Bundy's b/c we are blinded by our contempt for the federal govt. However, when the FACTS come into view, ie he hasn't paid his "fees" "permits" "taxes" should we continue to side with these taxcheats millionaires who are living off the public dole?

Many of us find it contemptible to give a moron who got herself knocked up by a deadbeat or two or three, a few thousands dollars a yr in public aid, b/c she made her poor choices.
Yet, this Bundy character....we take his side, when he purposefully STEALS by not paying his share.

All b/c we're blinded by our contempt.

when I first joined this board, I humbly admitted that for years I was blinded by pride and contempt. Here it is, 4 yrs later, and the blinders are still on. Wow, have I failed our Lord.
He lifted the blinders, and promptly put them right back on.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

On the rest of your post that I edited out......it's a pick your poison. Both the Democrips and Rebloodlicans are globalists. The NWO is being pushed on us from both sides, and the centrists, are divided as well, by one means or another.


But as for your posting of this link........

Why should the Bundy family get welfare for over millenia, while working stiffs like us are routinely foreclosed on by whichever entity we fail to pay, be it public or private sector?

We were duped into siding with the Bundy's b/c we are blinded by our contempt for the federal govt. However, when the FACTS come into view, ie he hasn't paid his "fees" "permits" "taxes" should we continue to side with these taxcheats millionaires who are living off the public dole?

Many of us find it contemptible to give a moron who got herself knocked up by a deadbeat or two or three, a few thousands dollars a yr in public aid, b/c she made her poor choices.
Yet, this Bundy character....we take his side, when he purposefully STEALS by not paying his share.

All b/c we're blinded by our contempt.

when I first joined this board, I humbly admitted that for years I was blinded by pride and contempt. Here it is, 4 yrs later, and the blinders are still on. Wow, have I failed our Lord.
He lifted the blinders, and promptly put them right back on.

I almost want to copy and paste this on my facebook for all my buddies who support Bundy for the very same reasons/

 

[Yarddog]

1995


He should be forced to pay the million or be evicted from his home and the homestead put up at public auction.

Surely a million is a drop in the barrel for the federal govt, but it's time the fat cats like the Bundy's pay their share.

My family of 6 makes less than 50K/yr, and Im currently on the dole b/c Im laid off. If I don't pay the taxes on my 3 properties, in 4 different counties, they put my properties up for auction.

If the Bundy's can't afford the fees, they should get REAL jobs like the rest of us, and quit living a life of privilege b/c they're great great great grand daddy broke his @ss to make a life for his family.
Not saying the Bundy's don't work hard....farming is tough work, but he's a cattle baron and he's probably employing illegals at 1/2 the wage of a tax paying citizen.
He's just an example of what I call corporate welfare. It's time the fat cats suck it up and pay their share.

Us 2nd Amendment'ers shoulda done some research before we sided with this tax dodger. We'd have been there to help the fed evict the deadbeat.

I couldn't agree more. This was never about guns, the Constitution, or being a loyal American. Bundy rejects our Constitution and laws. He is a racist idiot who believes that blacks would be better off still in slavery.

Ronald Reagan issued the Executive order which set the standard for the lowest that grazing fees could go. Before that they would fluctuate.

It was the abuses in grazing on public lands which led to the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934. Here is a picture comparing the grazing on public lands as compared to private property.

BLM (public land) to the left of the fence in the Pleasantview Hills, SE Idaho.
Early September 2003. Photo copyright by Ralph Maughan

 

[Psalm 91]

1995


He should be forced to pay the million or be evicted from his home and the homestead put up at public auction.

Surely a million is a drop in the barrel for the federal govt, but it's time the fat cats like the Bundy's pay their share.

My family of 6 makes less than 50K/yr, and Im currently on the dole b/c Im laid off. If I don't pay the taxes on my 3 properties, in 4 different counties, they put my properties up for auction.

If the Bundy's can't afford the fees, they should get REAL jobs like the rest of us, and quit living a life of privilege b/c they're great great great grand daddy broke his @ss to make a life for his family.
Not saying the Bundy's don't work hard....farming is tough work, but he's a cattle baron and he's probably employing illegals at 1/2 the wage of a tax paying citizen.
He's just an example of what I call corporate welfare. It's time the fat cats suck it up and pay their share.

Us 2nd Amendment'ers shoulda done some research before we sided with this tax dodger. We'd have been there to help the fed evict the deadbeat.

Bundy is an example of corporate welfare???? Do you have proof that he hires illegals? Do you know that he has been harassed for years about this simply because Reid LLC and another Reid company owns the land his cattle are grazing on? They are the corporate fat cats and they want to make millions off of this land by selling it to the Chinese for solar panel production. Most Mormons are very peaceful and kind people, but not Harry Reid. AHS, he hates us. We are nothing to him. He's doing what everyone in this government does, turning people against each other. The government wants Bundy to pay millions for grass. Period. Reid wants his cattle off the land so the Chinese can take over and pay him millions. Many of the cattle ranchers there have given in because they are afraid of the government and they think if they pay up the gov't will leave them alone, but that will never happen. The gov't is against freedom and they will hit every little guy who doesn't go along with the tyrannical "laws" passed by people who know nothing about life on a ranch and couldn't care less about it. These ranches will become extinct and we will all be vegetarians one of these days. Cass Sunstein who is a member of Obama's cabinet (his wife is the ambassador to the U.N.) wrote a book called "Nudge". He is a character who believes that animals should have defense lawyers. Anyway, to nudge is to raise meat prices to the point where no one can buy it. We are being "nudged". No one in the gov't expected so many people to stand behind Bundy. What are they going to do? Crack down harder on the ones who have been "obeying the law". And they will continue to make Bundy look like a crack pot and tax evader. And the programmed masses will believe what is being told to them by the gov't controlled media.

There was a study done in the early 60's where people were studied to find out if we do things that are unethical simply because someone in power over us or someone more intimidating was telling us to do this unethical act. The act was administering shocks to another person to the point of death. They continued when told even when the subject was no longer screaming for his life (he wasn't really being shocked but the person administering the shocks didn't know that). Even when there was silence, the person giving the orders continued urging the person to administer shocks and in most of the cases, they did, even when they thought the subject had lost consciousness. We are like pack animals. It's rare to find Americans who are not afraid of authority and stand up to it. That is why Bundy is so hated. He has courage and stood up to the gov't. Whether he wins or not is not the issue. The issue is that he thought for himself and didn't let tyrants intimidate him.

I don't know why poor people continue to complain about people who are better off than they are. They are doing exactly what the gov't wants. "Divide and conquer". We act like a bunch of rhesus monkeys trained to act in certain ways. If they could see that the gov't is behind all of the lack of jobs, the poor wages, the inflation, the poor educational system, etc., etc., etc. The gov't supports those you call corporate fat cats. The rest of us are meaningless to them. I would call Bundy a small business owner and those are the ones who are being targeted and destroyed by the gov't.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

The government also took the land from native americans and gave it to bundy's ancestors 127 years ago. They took it back and now he is crying foul for his family profiting off of someone else's trouble over 127 years ago. If anything they should give the land back to its original owners.

Why don't we throw in a couple billion dollars to boot, for "inconvenience"?