Climate change, deforestation, mass extinction...

Gxg (G²);66167922 said:

Eco Technology is truly the way to go if we're to live in harmony with the world we exist in and yet still be able to maintain the advance infrastructure we have for our population. And I'm very glad for others with the vision to see that through:

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I'm hugely excited to see arcologies in my life time. I think they're an incredible concept.

Zoness said:

I identify as proto-anarchist ..

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Pause - when did THIS happen? Never heard of it before - or may have seen it but forgot (which in that case would be sad). Nonetheless Cool to know, as I was wondering if I was the only one with leanings on the matter here since I mentioned it earlier in regards to anarchism from an ecological perspective (as mentioned in #55 and #68 ). Seeing how other groups have done quite well when it comes to disconnecting and living opposite of what many civilizations do so is amazing (as James Scott notes well in his studies on cultures of Upland Southeast Asia and the ways they live out their existence well - more noted in Natalie Bennett: Book Review – The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia by James C. Scott | The New Significance ).

Gxg (G²);66168037 said:

Pause - when did THIS happen? Never heard of it before - or may have seen it but forgot (which in that case would be sad). Nonetheless Cool to know, as I was wondering if I was the only one with leanings on the matter here since I mentioned it earlier in regards to anarchism from an ecological perspective (as mentioned in #55 and #68 ). Seeing how other groups have done quite well when it comes to disconnecting and living opposite of what many civilizations do so is amazing (as James Scott notes well in his studies on cultures of Upland Southeast Asia and the ways they live out their existence well - more noted in Natalie Bennett: Book Review – The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia by James C. Scott | The New Significance ).

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Culturally I sort of fall into the crypto-anarchist subculture with more sympathy to free economic systems as well as being pro-environmental. You bringing it flickered it in my mind especially in the reply I formed earlier. I can relate a lot with your earlier described ideology. Though most of my political background is informed by technical background and it always seems that many of us programmer types always skew libertarian, minarchist or anarchist a la HACKBLOC in some cases. It varies wildly but I've been growing into my political beliefs really intensely over the last year or so.

Zoness said:

I'm hugely excited to see arcologies in my life time. I think they're an incredible concept.

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Arcologies are things I truly hope occur more in the near-future and achieve completion.

Till then, I am glad for where others have sought to make possible proto-forms of them which are quite practical. I'm still amazed at the real life "Hobbit Holes" people live in...or efficient Earth-Sheltered homes

[URL="http://www.theindependentpatriot.com/Sustainable_Living.html"]

[/URL]

• [url=http://www.architectureartdesigns.com/13-hobbit-houses-you-wont-believe-that-people-actually-live-in/]13 Hobbit Houses. You Won't Believe That People Actually Live In. - ArchitectureArtDesigns.com

• Hobbit Houses: 15 Grassy Hill-Shaped Dwellings - WebEcoist

• Efficient Earth-Sheltered Homes | Department of Energy

Eco-Homes are amazing [/URL]and I would love to own one someday if I'm blessed to do so. Earth Sheltered homes are so practical and an amazing fusion of worlds...

Since the OP was asking about the subject of environmental concerns from a religious standpoint, I thought it was interesting to see where even those building churches understand this concept of combining technology with the eco-system. In example,
This is the interior of the Serbian Orthodox church in Alice Springs....famous as one of three churches built under ground in the Alice as a way of providing a refuge for the faithful from the extreme heat of a Central Australian summer.

• Coober Pedy - Australia's Underground Town | Oddity Central - Collecting Oddities

Underground Serbian church draws crowds - YouTube

It's seen as a church that provides a beautiful and serene environment and, like much of the regions landscape, a perfect place for meditation and contemplation.

Zoness said:

I saw that documentary. It was real cool, proof that Earth will go on without us and probably won't miss us.

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Earth will keep on rolling whether we like it or not - and life will adapt to meet the level of uncomfortable settings. As said earlier in one of the video documentaries on the reality of desertification rising on a global planet (in addition to water becoming even more scarce due to water privatization and misuse), we may end up on a dry world - and if creatures learned to adapt to the harshness of a desert (as people have too - like the Berbers and other nomadic groups) and live on less even when it seems crazy to do so, that should send us a FYI that we better learn to do the same ...or watch as others keep it moving and us not be able to keep up.

Some species of animal that have survived this long with us, I hope they will be able to make it long enough for us to figure how to handle things wisely. I'm shocked to see how camels have been listed as endangered - despite all of the harshness they have learned to weather and the biological blessings that come from their milk and their blood (more here and here).

Zoness said:

Culturally I sort of fall into the crypto-anarchist subculture with more sympathy to free economic systems as well as being pro-environmental. You bringing it flickered it in my mind especially in the reply I formed earlier. I can relate a lot with your earlier described ideology. Though most of my political background is informed by technical background and it always seems that many of us programmer types always skew libertarian, minarchist or anarchist a la HACKBLOC in some cases. It varies wildly but I've been growing into my political beliefs really intensely over the last year or so.

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Got ya on the ways that views were shaped for you on the matterand cool to know - it's my first time hearing of what you brought up with the subculture that defines you more than other ones.

Everyone evolves differently I'm finding that many of my political views have been shifting a lot of late as well - some of them becoming even more confirmed and others changing to find ways to address the more complex forms of nuance I've been exposed to more so over the years..

Jane_the_Bane said:

Basically, capitalism worked for as long as it could simply spread out its economic supports so widely that it could afford to destroy one ecosystem at a time, moving on to another when the previous one was depleted. With far-spread globalization, however, we've reached the point where there's virtually no new territory to move on to, and the devastation starts to catch up with us no matter where we turn.

However, capitalism MUST grow indefinitely in order to work. It's systemic - and it cannot work on a planet with limited resources.

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I am not sure if it's appropriate for this forum, but I could do an AMA on living full-time in a Mongolian yurt, which I did for 3 years and during the 2 harshest winters we've ever had in the UK and with all kinds of problems that came-up.

I learned a LOT, which was of course the point.

BaconWizard said:

I am not sure if it's appropriate for this forum, but I could do an AMA on living full-time in a Mongolian yurt, which I did for 3 years and during the 2 harshest winters we've ever had in the UK and with all kinds of problems that came-up.

I learned a LOT, which was of course the point.

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People living simpler lives tend to be better prepared - problems exist in all contexts but at least one is vastly more sustainable for the long term and able to help out.

Jane_the_Bane said:

When it comes to fancy terms to apply to one's own socio-political positions, and speaking strictly about idealism instead of pragmatism, I'd consider myself a deep-green, post-feminist, left-libertarian ecosocialist with strong sympathies for technogaianism and trans- (or post-)humanism.

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Makes sense

In both of those groups, there are actually a lot of aspects of pragmatism present, depending on where things get applied. Technogaianism - a bright green environmentalist stance - has done a lot when it comes to helping others out practically with changing their world, even though there are differing shades on the matter - Worldchanging | Evaluation + Tools + Best Practices: Bright Green, Light Green, Dark Green, Gray: The New Environmental Spectrum. And Ecosocialist does a good job with regards to critiquing the limits of capitalism in its unchecked form

Jane_the_Bane said:

Basically, capitalism worked for as long as it could simply spread out its economic supports so widely that it could afford to destroy one ecosystem at a time, moving on to another when the previous one was depleted. With far-spread globalization, however, we've reached the point where there's virtually no new territory to move on to, and the devastation starts to catch up with us no matter where we turn.

However, capitalism MUST grow indefinitely in order to work. It's systemic - and it cannot work on a planet with limited resources.

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The form of capitalism that spreads out with no regards for sustaining eco-systems is in the same category as crony capitalism or other forms that are based solely on how much gain can be achieved without consideration for the lives destroyed in the process. Globalization is the fuel for any system of capitalism expanding - although the form of capitalism that expands is not fixed. There are forms of commerce that involve sustainable development and renewing resources - or changing the market (regardless of demand) so that what's demanded is kept in consistency with what's available and what needs to be conserved so that future generations can have things to work with.

We already have new areas to turn to - and the ones we already have can be re-utilized if we change our demand for consumption rather than pulling the cart before the horse in assuming that every demand has to be met because it's a demand. As another noted wisely:

For many environmentalists and ecological economists in the South and the North, the unraveling of the export-oriented global economy spells opportunity. It opens up the transition to more climate-friendly and ecologically sensitive ways of organizing economic life. But the fossil fuel-intensiveness of global transport and freight is merely one dimension of the problem. Environmentalists insist there must be a change in the reigning economic model itself. The global economy must make a transition from being driven fundamentally by overproduction and overconsumption to being geared to real needs, marked by moderate or low consumption, and based on sustainable and decentralized production processes.

Accordingly, the assumption of most policymakers in the North that consumption trends can continue—and that the only challenge is the transformation of the energy mix and the adoption of technofixes such as biofuels, "clean coal," nuclear power, carbon sequestration and storage, and carbon trading—is not only based on illusions but positively dangerous. Indeed, the climate problem cannot be addressed strategically without addressing the inherently environmentally destabilizing dynamics of capitalism—its incessant drive, motivated by the search for profit, to transform living nature into dead commodities.​

People won't demand junk food/the destruction that comes with eating unhealthy when they are made available on how its better for them and also presented in a manner that makes it appealing - in the same way that others don't divorce their desires from care for the environment when they realize how it's all interconnected and not a foreign thing which they cannot impact. With globalization, whatever its merits, one of the consequences of globalization, especially in democracies, is the rise of grass-roots movements opposing its imposition when those in charge of the global structures/governments institute actions that end up harming the local communities who exist in those governments - for globalization does not have to be a negative thing since we've experienced it in differing points of ancient history. What does make it negative is having bad people at the helm of the ship, so to speak - an example being what occurred when neoconservative economic policy (i.e. believing that wealth can be created by reducing and/or eliminating social services while creating profitable investment opportunities for foreign investors - the kind of model imposed on Latin American countries in recent years ) served to destabilize Mexico politically and the Zapatista movement was explicit in its assertion that globalization was at the root of Mexico's problems due to the cocaine/drug trade flourishing as a result of globalization and an unwillingness to see where the West wrongfully benefited from the promotion of the drug trade - and another example being what occurred in Bolivia when large grass-roots movements were energized because an American company tried to privatize all the water in a small city there.....and another example being where others noted that Bolivia was dominated by a globalization program which was threatening that country's small farmers, just as it threatens small farmers in other countries and uses the powers of the state to force ''reforms'' which will lead to the local farmers' demise because they don't respect the wisdom that local farmers/students of the land have to offer.

But again, others have been doing much in regards to finding practical ways of addressing the matter and showing that loving the environment and sustaining it is not opposite to having a love for business.

There's an excellent read on the issue entitled Natural Capitalism, which deals with the Industrial Ecology movement and strings together every extant IE (Industrial Ecology) success story in a rollicking 400-page tour of the discipline in which the authors provide a solid case that there is money, and environmental gains, to be harvested by subjecting current practices to an analysis that puts ecological health ahead of the health of the bottom line.

In summary of what Natural Capitalism is about:



It would be a blessing if others considered the benefits that Natural Capitalism have to offer - more in Natural Capitalism

Natural Capitalism: The Next Industrial Revolution with Amory Lovins - YouTube

Outside of that, other revolutionary minds such as Majora Carter (mentioned earlier in #65 alongside other Black Environmentalists and the creator of Sustainable South Bronx and whose work as an environmental activist fighting for the South Bronx is known worldwide ) have done an amazing job in bringing the issue home - as seen in Major Carter @ Green-Up, The Soul of Green: Greening the Ghetto, You Don’t Have to Move Out of Your Neighborhood to Live in a Better One - Majora Carter: How to break the cycle of environmental injustice and build happier communities - YES Magazine! and here:

Martin Luther King, Jr. Day - 2014 - Majora Carter: Eco-Entrepreneur - YouTube

Some of this has been discussed before when it comes to the differing forms of capitalism and how profit has been made in many places while respecting the limitations of what we have (including the call to limit our expansion and learn to live with less) - as seen in the following:

Zoness said:

The world is in the most peaceful era humanity has ever seen.


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At least we're not in the era of the Black Plague ....

Gxg (G²);66168149 said:

Got ya on the ways that views were shaped for you on the matterand cool to know - it's my first time hearing of what you brought up with the subculture that defines you more than other ones.

Everyone evolves differently I'm finding that many of my political views have been shifting a lot of late as well - some of them becoming even more confirmed and others changing to find ways to address the more complex forms of nuance I've been exposed to more so over the years..

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I've been learning a lot and have been more open to spirituality. Thanks to some of the information you've provided in various threads, I've become acutely more aware of the suffering of specific groups and I have found interest in reading Native Americans especially.

Jane_the_Bane said:

When it comes to fancy terms to apply to one's own socio-political positions, and speaking strictly about idealism instead of pragmatism, I'd consider myself a deep-green, post-feminist, left-libertarian ecosocialist with strong sympathies for technogaianism and trans- (or post-)humanism.

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When I look at my labels I realize they're not overly pragmatic. I exist in a Capitalist system so I work with it. My biggest political platform is digital freedom a la the Electronic Frontier Foundation as well as encouraging people to learn, study and pay attention to the world.

BaconWizard said:

I am not sure if it's appropriate for this forum, but I could do an AMA on living full-time in a Mongolian yurt, which I did for 3 years and during the 2 harshest winters we've ever had in the UK and with all kinds of problems that came-up.

I learned a LOT, which was of course the point.

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That sounds pretty interesting. Count me as one vote.

Zoness said:

The world is in the most peaceful era humanity has ever seen. There are earthquakes EVERY DAY. Such is tectonic movement.

Projections change; technology improves and progress marches on. Peak oil will continue to adjust until it reaches its logarithmic upper bound; the cost being too great for the reward.

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Change happens in so many crazy ways, Bruh




Things do progress - and globally, many have been reconsidering how to go about handling things with encouragement.

Gxg (G²);66168737 said:

People living simpler lives tend to be better prepared - problems exist in all contexts but at least one is vastly more sustainable for the long term and able to help out.

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Indeed. It can be very tough for people to simplify their lives once they get trapped in the system though. I wish I knew then what I know now. But you just plug away and work towards a more authentic Christian life the best you can.

Zoness said:

I've been learning a lot and have been more open to spirituality. Thanks to some of the information you've provided in various threads, I've become acutely more aware of the suffering of specific groups and I have found interest in reading Native Americans especially.

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Cool to know and thanks for informing me on the matter - whatever good does occur, it's a benefit derived from God..

When I look at my labels I realize they're not overly pragmatic. I exist in a Capitalist system so I work with it.

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Perhaps it's just me - but working with things as they are so long as they work is a reflection of pragmatism...and thus, I didn't really think you were separate from being pragmatic.

My biggest political platform is digital freedom a la the Electronic Frontier Foundation as well as encouraging people to learn, study and pay attention to the world.

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Networking makes a difference (especially with regards to our digital footprints we leave behind ) - in addition to keeping up with the consequences of not knowing where our electronics actually come from and how we're to be responsible with our platforms. It is still shocking to me to consider the ramifications of electronic waste and the ways countries are literally being poisoned because of our digital obsessions..

And in other places, to see where electronics have led to massive violence has shocked me - I am in a daze considering the issue of things like Blood Cell Phones and what is happening now because we are not aware of the real costs of our need to stay in touch (i.e. the hidden tariffs with unimaginable human consequences like rape, murder and illegal slave labour...all of which harm our environment and speed destruction) - more shared in Blood Coltan - Watch Free Documentary Online and BLOOD IN THE MOBILE Review: If You Own A Cell Phone, You Must Watch This Movie and Blood in the Mobile | Watch Documentaries Online | Promote Documentary Film

Congo: Blood, gold and mobile phones - YouTube
Blood Cell Phones - YouTube
Cell Phones and the Environment - YouTube

gordRedeemed said:

Indeed. It can be very tough for people to simplify their lives once they get trapped in the system though. I wish I knew then what I know now. But you just plug away and work towards a more authentic Christian life the best you can.

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I feel where you're coming from and I'm right there with ya....you do what you can one step at a time...or several steps, depending on how serious things are. My cousin and I were once discussing the water privatization issue and we both had the mindset that we cannot stop the forces seeking to do what they do in corruption - but at least we can be aware of the predators trying to prey upon people so we know how handle them as best as possible and not be a part of the problem.

Jane_the_Bane said:

If modern civilization with all of its amenities was to magically disappear overnight, forcing us all to embrace a more basic mode of survival, I'm not so sure I'd be able to cope.

I'm not much of a gardener, I absolutely SUCK at any kind of handicrafts, I've never built or even repaired anything, and if I was able to somehow catch and kill a rabbit or some other meat source, I doubt I'd know how to prepare the meat without spoiling it.

I'd LOVE to attend a survivalist workshop, a spiritual "retreat", or some other course that involves learning how to get by without the luxury we've become used to.
But at this point? I'd be about as useful as nipples on a chestplate. I'm a poet, a critic, a scholar - and none of that is of any immediate use in more primitive circumstances.

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That's when you call your local friendly Bacon Wizard