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Climate change, deforestation, mass extinction...

Jane_the_Bane

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Jane,
Humans will always fine ways to up energy consumption, so either a clean one or dirty one.
That sounds a bit like: "People will ALWAYS pee in the pool, so I'll do the same."
In contrast to you, I do believe our species is capable of rational self-interest, i.e. realizing that we're shooting outselves in the head and/or burn down the house we live in.

Nuclear energy is NOT the key to a sustainable future. (I forgot to mention that uran is a non-regenerative resource as well, and one that'd run out ridiculously fast if all countries around the globe were to build power plants.) It's not even a particularly good "bridge technology" towards a future of clean energy derived from regenerative resources, because the peculiarities of its electricity production demand a constantly high level of consumption, encouraging more wastefulness instead of more efficiency. And that's not even taking into account that it is NOT clean in and of itself, and results in toxic waste.

And you do realize there are radio active things in coal and fossil fuel, once burned instead of stay in one place they float in air....
"Radioactive things"... oh boy.
Yes, there are some isotopes there. There's also a certain amount of natural radiation we absorb each year, no matter what we do. And more radiatio of you frequently travel by plane.
None of that compares to the threat posed by nuclear waste products, though. Often toxic in and of themselves, they radiate at a level that makes natural background radiation look microscopic by comparison.
And - it bears repeating - even after half a century, not a SINGLE country on the globe has found a place where these waste products could be safely deposed. Not ONE. And the pile of toxic waste is still growing.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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That's the main point there. People don't like change, especially when they are used to what they already have. It will probably take some sort of catastrophe before the majority of the developed world changes its ways. Myself included as I have gotten used to a certain lifestyle and although I like to think I could 'cut back' it may take a good hard push to actually take that step.
I don't see this ending well for this version of humanity. I do what I can but I can't see this getting any better. I don't ignore the problem but I don't really see a way out. Human greed and consumption can not be satiated. The end will come sooner or later.
Indeed..

Practically when it comes to our resources, it seems that not many of us are preparing ourselves for when the system crashes - or getting geared for a reality which says that there is no going back and thus going forward with learning how to cope is the only way to truly get our attention.

Blue Gold : World Water Wars (Official Full Length Film) - YouTube

But there are things we need to speak on and address in the here and now in order to raise awareness on what's coming...as well as showing what's already here. In example, For people saying that things need to simply be left alone when it comes to the water supply, I do wish they'd be aware of how things like Fiji Water (which many buy in bottles daily) is often stolen from the poor.


I'm simply shocked at the extensive ways that others act as if there's no such thing as water wars, as it's not something that can be hidden from forever. I'm reminded of what's happening with the people of Bolivia right now:


And a part from that, for others doing battle:​


People in many nations die daily because of a bad use of water as well as water contamination---and yet, people on all sides of the political spectrum here in the U.S don't even realize how much they are a part of the suffering that occurs for others...as well as setting the stage for future suffering that will happen later if people don't open their eyes and do something. As it concerns the world of private industry, here's something from the other side addressing what many often don't cover---and that has been happening right under the noses of people in the U.S even while asking for more privitization. There was an excellent documentary on the subject that changed my perspective forever on what seems to be happening with the ways the world is literally heading to a form of self-destruct due to the ways that the water supply is literally be privatized without people even knowing it...and others don't realize the ways that they are wasting the water supply of others around the world, especially as it concerns the buying of bottled water and where it comes from...more discussed at Water, Bottled Water - The Issues - Sustainable Table and Water, Bottled Water - The Issues - Sustainable Table, as well as The Ripple Effect: The Fate of Freshwater in the Twenty-First Century and Last Call at the Oasis - Page 67.</DIV>



For more, one may consider watching the following documentary:

"Weeping Tears of Blood" (Blue Gold) World Water Wars - YouTube

"Blue Gold: World Water Wars" is a documentary discussing how wars of the future will be fought over water as they are over oil today, as the source of human survival enters the global marketplace and political arena.

The documentary centered on how corporate giants, private investors, and corrupt governments vie for control of our dwindling supply, prompting protests, lawsuits, and revolutions from citizens fighting for the right to survive because of the fact that past civilizations have collapsed from poor water management. Whereas the subject of global Warming is an issue of 'how' we live, the water crisis is an issue of 'if' we live...and one that many are not really considering seriously.

For others, one may consider going to Water.org or investigating the following:​


A World Without Water
FLOW for love of water (2008) (ελληνικοί υπότιτλοι) - YouTube
Charity Water Documentary
Water For Life" - Special with Charity Winters
World Water Shortage vs. Golf Course Consumption HD


The other documentary, entitled "Flow: For Love of Water" is by Irena Salina...and it is her award-winning documentary investigation into what experts label the most important political and environmental issue of the 21st Century - The World Water Crisis. Salina builds a case against the growing privatization of the world's dwindling fresh water supply with an unflinching focus on politics, pollution, human rights, and the emergence of a domineering world water cartel.​

In light of some documentaries I was blessed to see on how much our water supply has been something that has been destroyed at a rapid rate---with many saying that the way mankind handles it will determine whether we continue living well....or have to live at sub-human/abnormal levels....and at the worst, end up causing our own extinction and fading away just as the dinosaurs did.​

Seeing the ways that these things are occurring despite all of the political issues arising, it reminded me of how often distractions can occur in the lives of others and people end up missing things that'll harm us in the long run. The dynamics of water and the ways it is repeatedly mishandled is a BIG example of that.​

And at the rate we're going, we'll probably have to deal with a new reality where Desertification is what kills us all. ....that is a threat



desertificacao.jpg
 
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BaconWizard

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Nuclear energy is NOT the key to a sustainable future. (I forgot to mention that uran is a non-regenerative resource as well, and one that'd run out ridiculously fast if all countries around the globe were to build power plants.) It's not even a particularly good "bridge technology" towards a future of clean energy derived from regenerative resources, because the peculiarities of its electricity production demand a constantly high level of consumption, encouraging more wastefulness instead of more efficiency. And that's not even taking into account that it is NOT clean in and of itself, and results in toxic waste.

Selective quoting because I agree with the rest of your post.
With regard to this particular quote, which nuclear technologies precisely are you talking-about?

Also, Ref my previous post suggesting thorium reactors,
 
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gord44

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Gxg (G²);66122552 said:
Indeed..

Practically when it comes to our resources, it seems that not many of us are preparing ourselves for when the system crashes - or getting geared for a reality which says that there is no going back and thus going forward with learning how to cope is the only way to truly get our attention.

Blue Gold : World Water Wars (Official Full Length Film) - YouTube

I will check out that video. Thanks! Water indeed will be a very valuable resource as time goes on.

I don't think there will be a crash so much, but a slow decline as resources dwindle. The idea of a 'crash' is popular because it brings thoughts of chaos and mayhem, but I think it will be a mundane slip into a post petroleum society that will make people change the way they live.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I think religion(s) Don't have much influence over environmental issues. Rapid progress in Science paved way for increasing human life spans and survival.Industrial revolution paved way for mass production of goods resulting in increased consumption with attended environmental problems .Recycling looks good on paper but the over all impact is not significant .Unless rapid strides or made in scientific/industrial discoveries sustainable living, that can take care of environment , will not be possible.
It has been the case that there have been many strides in regards to sustainable living and development - and others have noted for the longest time where significant advancement has occurred.

However, greed is sadly a religious ideology - a worldview that can cause others to be consumed with however much they can consume and whatever they can gain for themselves. And unfortunately, this has led to many ignoring others who have truly made a difference and are helping others out.

As said before elsewhere:

Gxg (G²);61457069 said:
Growing Power Weekend - Urban Farming for Food Security
You Can Grow Food in the Snow - A Visit to Will Allen's Growing Power


...I think we have many of the same capabilities as other nations to do the same, if not more, seeing the many that've invested in green-collar resources and innovation via environment. However, what keeps funding back on a large scale is many have stereotypes of such careers (never mind that they surround people daily in a myriad of ways)--and thus, people resist what could help them while the rest of the world falls back. Great scientific minds such as George Washington Carver (one of my all time favorite heros in the faith) were decades ahead of their time when it came to things such as ethanol based on corn syrup---and as he already revolutionized the agriculture of the South/saved it and even made inventions used in car doors via plants, he should have been listened to when he was encouraging others to look into industrial uses from agriculture and biotechnology.


....As said elsewhere, it may never change so long as Big Buisnesses with oil/traditional energy sources keep up the mantra that alternative cannot be invested in without financial damage and unsustainabiltiy (despite where the traditional is already running out and has been shown to always be damaging long term). I really wish people would support him more in what it is he was trying to do with Green-Collar" jobs and keeping jobs here locally....
And this, imo, is where $ in politics takes us - the old guard in business is interested in maintaining their position (which is understandable) and influences political decisions through various means.

How many oil companies are interested in shifting the focus on global warming to who caused it (rather than the what is of it) whilst waiting for the perma-frost to recede sufficiently to gain access for drilling ?

We could have jumped into solar in the 80s - and didn't. Had we, who knows what our present position in global sales would be ...
On "green jobs" - we've lost our competitive edge in that sector. At least four countries that I know of (in the Middle East, Asia, and Europe) are well ahead of us in R&D and implementation in alternative energy. The Brits have developed a paint that absorbs pollution, improving air quality in urban areas. Super-polluted city tries to clean itself with smog-eating paint | AECDigest

The global market is eager to buy green tech.

I guess the US is satisfied to remain importers instead of entrepreneurs.
Gxg (G²);61283185 said:
Indeed..


...They already have the resources to make fuel from algae--with 5 companies already using it....and we could do well with all of the trash/waste we make if we'd learn to make sustainable resources from it as other countries have....but so long as Big Buisnesses with oil/traditional energy sources keep up the mantra that alternative cannot be invested in without financial damage and unsustainabiltiy (despite where the traditional is already running out and has been shown to always be damaging long term), you'll see more of the same.

GREEN JOBS NOT JAILS - The Third Wave of Environmentalism
The Green Collar Economy - Van Jones of the Center for ...


God is all about sustainable development and responsible care of our world - be it with solar energy OR with oil and being careful how it is utilized....as well as always seeking to find more efficient ways to take care of our world. And God is HIGHLY concerned with Eco-Imperialism where other impoverished nations are not allowed to choose their own destiny and things imposed on them in the name of "sustainable development" are often keeping them starving while those doing the imposing actions are living quite well. There's an excellent book on the issue I have been thankful for, entitled "Eco-Imperialism: Green Power, Black Death"

Industrialized country proposals to integrate environmental protection into the WTO trade regime constitute environmental imperialism - the imposition of industrialized country values and preferences on less powerful nations....for although conservation is a wonderful and important thing, it should be noted that environmental protection is a luxury that poor countries can ill afford - and even though wealthy countries have played a leadership role in the protection of the global environment, it is hypocritical when wealthy nations throw away their own waste into poorer nations (i.e. electronic waste, oil spills, etc.) and then tell those nations they have to be careful. The same applies for issues of waste within our own nation when it comes to impoverished areas being dumped upon in order to make other places look
clean and nice for the wealthy



As it concerns religion, believers (at least people claiming faith in God) should always take seriously the issue of environmental stewardship. And I'm glad for others who do so - Sustainable Traditions: Home (here). Moreover, I'm very thankful for believers taking seriously the issue of what it means to "Go Green" and see it from the perspective of others who are actually making a difference with it.

One of the most inspiring examples for me will always be George Washington Carver (more shared here in #1, #20 and #45 ) - an AMAZING believer who did much to literally revolutionize the world via agriculture..with very little materials to work with many times and a system that was designed to be against him/other blacks....in regards to Jim Crow and Slavery. He did what he could with what the Lord gave him to promote the Kingdom of God - and show the miraculous...and others were amazed just as they are today with what he did despite the system. For a good read on the issue, one can go to The Green Vision of Henry Ford and George Washington Carver: Two ... - Page 203

For those communities impacted the most by things that others don't deal with, going "Green" is a big deal. People like Majora Carter have done stellar work in the Bronx, which has a reputation as one of New York’s most dangerous boroughs and one of the most polluted. Grassroots organizations like Sustainable South Bronx (SSBx) addressed both of those pressing needs with a single solution — providing training and jobs that benefit the environment....as described by Majora Carter, founder of SSBx, in her "Green the Ghetto" talk. I'm thankful for the ways that the organization’s B.E.S.T. (Bronx Environmental Stewardship Training) Program provides residents with training for careers in ecological restoration, landscaping, green roof installation, hazardous waste cleanup and home weatherizing. All of those things are VERY RELEVANT when considering the ways that it impacts people in the hood.

It's already sad enough that we have TOXIC Racism (i.e. placing waste in economically impoverished communities..especially minority ones and poor/rural white communities ) due to institutional discrimination...or choosing to push out communities in the event that the government finds a use for the land they live in/have chosen to adapt to. Seeking to have sustainable development/green energy is about survival rather than doing so as if it's one option amongst many. There's a significant need to address the deep/historical issues behind what keeps others from being able to grow/live healthy....including institutional systems in our government that have often fought against others seeking to grow healthy resources. The same thing goes for issues of the environment being damaged by many things which we use often (i.e. gasoline, fumes/pollution, toxic waste, run-off, etc.)

 
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Gxg (G²)

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I will check out that video. Thanks!
Not a problem. I think you'd be blessed tremendously by it - and I know it really helps to place things into perspective with how dire events really are.
Water indeed will be a very valuable resource as time goes on.
It already is, although there's essentially a media blackout on what is really happening of late on the matter.
I don't think there will be a crash so much, but a slow decline as resources dwindle. The idea of a 'crash' is popular because it brings thoughts of chaos and mayhem, but I think it will be a mundane slip into a post petroleum society that will make people change the way they live.
Part of me is reminded of the phrase "death by a thousand cuts" - that seems to be what is happening and will eventually manifest in all seeing where we truly are.

The people who may be the least surprised are others similar to the Desert Fathers or others who lived in the desert and already came to be in symbiotic relationship with their world - their religion causing them to be saddened by the greed of man and yet not surprised by it or unable to truly live in harmony with their world - more in Desert Wisdom in a Time of Climate Change. For others who realize where the world and its desires are passing away (as I John 2:19 notes rather directly), it's very easy to devote yourself to simply seeking to address the issues within yourself and invite the difficulties for what they are...

BBC: Extreme Pilgrim - Ascetic Christianity - YouTube

Things can indeed be discouraging. Thankfully, however, just because things seem bleak doesn't mean we have to give in to being bleak ourselves. There's so much beauty in what others around the world have been seeking to do. I actually had a project I had to do on the issue last year where I was able to document the many ways others around the world have been having to do just that (as seen here in Rooted Together).
 
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Gxg (G²)

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That's the main point there. People don't like change, especially when they are used to what they already have. It will probably take some sort of catastrophe before the majority of the developed world changes its ways.
It truly is fascinating that some of the people who seem the least concerned for all of the fears arising on the planet and its mistreatment (Even though they have said it is a problem) would be the Buddhist Monks in the monasteries throughout Asia.


I really appreciate the Buddhist Monks and their mindsets - with them being very similar to the Desert Fathers in how introspective they are and disciplined, as well as aware of there being more to this life than this physical reality - something which has led to a lot of dialogues between Buddhists and Christians on differing levels.







[/CENTER]


[/CENTER]





But with the Buddhists monks, it intrigues me to see how they seem to have accepted a finality on the entire issue with feeling that there are greater concerns that are to be held to - and Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh noted that "only love can save us from climate change." In his view, most people are not responding to the threat of global warming, despite overwhelming scientific evidence, because they are unable to save themselves from their own personal suffering - thus making themselves too burdened to worry about the battles impacting the Earth/Nature. Although he has outlined practical ways to address global warming before in his books (such as The World We Have: A Buddhist Approach to Peace and Ecology: Easyread Large and The Blooming of a Lotus: Revised Edition of the Classic Guided Meditation ), he has still been of the mindset that nothing is permanent and there needs to be a willingness to not hold so tightly to things. It amazes me that the man is one at great peace even as he predicts the possible collapse of civilisation within 100 years as a result of runaway climate change. - more in ECOBUDDHISM :: Only love can save us from climate change and ECOBUDDHISM :: BOOK - Contents, Overview, Excerpts

Through meditation and education and acts of love one person at a time, change is a gradual process. We see that today, in countries such as Thailand and Japan, many Buddhist monks are active in Green groups.. And we can see in places like Bhutan where there is immense security due to how others handle themselves - more noted in Water and Climate in the Himalayas and Buddhism and climate change | Sujatoâ&#8364;&#8482;s Blog











There have been cases of others standing in the way of aggressive destruction of the environment (like these Buddhist monks in Cambodia blessing trees which are about to be destroyed to make way for a banana plantation - with the orange cloth making them sacred and used in the hopes of deterring loggers from cutting them down.



[/IMG]​



But if things do not change, there's no sense in fear being promoted within that system.





I am reminded of where Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Gary Snyder wrote an essay called &#8220;Buddhism and the Coming Revolution"....detailing at one point the practice of Buddhist Anarchism (more in Buddhist Anarchism (Gary Snyder) and BUDDHISM AND THE COMING REVOLUTION by Gary Snyder | Arthur Magazine). Buddhist Anarchism is very similar in many ways with Anarcho Primitivism . And interestingly enough, Buddhist Anarchism praises Chaos as a harbinger of change...yet unlike more mainstream anarchists - they don't seem to bother creating their own institutions since Chaos will itself bring change. To others, from Chaos a better world would naturally emerge

For reference, one can go here or here in Paul Cudenec: The skilful means of anarcho-Buddhism and to Zen Anarchy (Max Cafard) | The Anarchist Library.

And for others:




 
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Gxg (G²)

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Side note: I glanced at Gxg's videos and I saw one about Water Privatization. Now there's a scary concept.
It is indeed frightening - but it's here live and in person.
 
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BaconWizard

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Regarding thorium reactors:
Wikipediadirects me to a single German power plant that turned out to be an unmitigated disaster, and was closed down almost immediately. It sounded good on paper, but turned out to be terrible in practice.

This is true, but not because its a bad idea necessarily. It isn't clear why it was shut down, but running out of set-up money or an unforseen error and no further funding to correct it seem to be the likely culprits. There plenty other projects ongoing right now, so results will be in over the next 5 years.

I expect there were standard reactors that never made it, too. Or wind generators. Or anything.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I will check out that video. Thanks! Water indeed will be a very valuable resource as time goes on.
Sad to say, it's a valuable resource which we've been abusing on the everyday level already - even before global privitization will become more of a deadly force. For not many of us in suburbia even consider where we may have been harming others with the things we use water for...

 
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Gxg (G²)

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Basically, the solution more or less boiled down to "G7 must use less energy through a carbon tax. The revenue will be redistribute to the poor nations. And the poor nations can use as much energy as they need". IOW, we will run out resources anyway.
As we run out of resources in time, we can still adapt to how things are used till that point - we know nothing lasts forever and thus the quality of life that we have as things get less and less can be changed for good if we use them in wisdom. We can still live for many more centuries to come if we use our resources with care - but anyone thinking we'd be able to be here with no threat of an end coming would be off...
 
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Zoness

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Gxg (G²);66166198 said:
As we run out of resources in time, we can still adapt to how things are used till that point - we know nothing lasts forever and thus the quality of life that we have as things get less and less can be changed for good if we use them in wisdom. We can still live for many more centuries to come if we use our resources with care - but anyone thinking we'd be able to be here with no threat of an end coming would be off...

We could do this but we could also continue down our suicidal path of turning biomass into a products and calling that progress, while we operate under the delusion that endless growth is healthy for civilization.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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We could do this but we could also continue down our suicidal path of turning biomass into a products and calling that progress, while we operate under the delusion that endless growth is healthy for civilization.
Very true - but whether we realize this or not, the planet will go out without us...so either we'll be along for the ride and be good guests - or we'll be out quicker than we had to be and Mother Earth will be like "Finally!"


That said, it is always cool to consider the ways that others in the world of science speculate on the ways that things will change in the future. I'm reminded of something that was on the National Geographic channel once:

Planet Earth 100 Million Years In The Future - What will happen to our world? - HD Full Documentary - YouTube

AFTERMATH Population Zero Full - YouTube
 
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morse86

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By observing the world today, we can see we're approaching the end times. The bible says there will be earthquakes etc.

What better way for Satan to try to turn people from god by inventing "climate change"? Climate change does not exist. Just look at peak oil in the late 1800s. We were supposed to run out in 1920. There is a lot of disinformation out there, the earth has so much land (the entire population can fit into a city in florida)...deforestation etc is just a disinformation tactic so gov everywhere can take away your property rights.
 
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Zoness

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By observing the world today, we can see we're approaching the end times. The bible says there will be earthquakes etc.

The world is in the most peaceful era humanity has ever seen. There are earthquakes EVERY DAY. Such is tectonic movement.

What better way for Satan to try to turn people from god by inventing "climate change"? Climate change does not exist. Just look at peak oil in the late 1800s. We were supposed to run out in 1920. There is a lot of disinformation out there, the earth has so much land (the entire population can fit into a city in florida)...deforestation etc is just a disinformation tactic so gov everywhere can take away your property rights.

Projections change; technology improves and progress marches on. Peak oil will continue to adjust until it reaches its logarithmic upper bound; the cost being too great for the reward. Additionally, you've provided no citations for any of your "facts" but common sense would clearly dictate that the quality of life humanity has would decline significantly if we were to increase our density that high.

But no, you're right. It's a huge conspiracy. You got it, they want yo freedumz. I identify as proto-anarchist and I still find your assertion ridiculous.
 
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gord44

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By observing the world today, we can see we're approaching the end times. The bible says there will be earthquakes etc

There's always been earthquakes. There are hundreds of earthquakes around the world every day. Today alone there has been 40 earthquakes above 2.5 magnitude. You only hear about the ones that are near cities or cause damage. Naturally as human detection of earthquakes increases and humans continue to expand, the likely hood of hearing about earthquakes increases. Go look it up. It's fascinating.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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We could do this but we could also continue down our suicidal path of turning biomass into a products and calling that progress, while we operate under the delusion that endless growth is healthy for civilization.
Eco Technology is truly the way to go if we're to live in harmony with the world we exist in and yet still be able to maintain the advance infrastructure we have for our population. And I'm very glad for others with the vision to see that through:


Future of Green Technology - "a Documentary on Future" - YouTube





 
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