CLEVELAND — Three students and three teachers were reportedly shot at a Cleveland hi

[Christian Soldier]

"There is the saying that music calms the savage breast. That is very true."

Calm, inspiring music will indeed "calm the savage beast". Thus it logically follows that extraordinarily loud, hate-filled, cacaphonous, dissonant, demonically inspired music will INCITE the savage beast.

"The boy was likely drawn to Manson because it reflected his feelings, thoughts, and mood, not the other way around. Because even I at times do get angry and frustrated at someone or the world and turn on that metal and rock and sing and/or dance with it to get the bad energy out."

The young man obviously listened to a lot of Marilyn Manson and similar music. Why didn't all this listening "calm the savage beast" within him, and "get the bad energy out."?

If what you allege is true, he should've been one of the calmest and most peaceful kids around.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

"There is the saying that music calms the savage breast. That is very true."

Calm, inspiring music will indeed "calm the savage beast". Thus it logically follows that extraordinarily loud, hate-filled, cacaphonous, dissonant, demonically inspired music will INCITE the savage beast.

"The boy was likely drawn to Manson because it reflected his feelings, thoughts, and mood, not the other way around. Because even I at times do get angry and frustrated at someone or the world and turn on that metal and rock and sing and/or dance with it to get the bad energy out."

The young man obviously listened to a lot of Marilyn Manson and similar music. Why didn't all this listening "calm the savage beast" within him, and "get the bad energy out."?

If what you allege is true, he should've been one of the calmest and most peaceful kids around.

How do you know he listened to Manson?

Manson has millions of listeners and there aren't millions of school shootings.

 

[Harpuia]

"There is the saying that music calms the savage breast. That is very true."

Calm, inspiring music will indeed "calm the savage beast". Thus it logically follows that extraordinarily loud, hate-filled, cacaphonous, dissonant, demonically inspired music will INCITE the savage beast.

"The boy was likely drawn to Manson because it reflected his feelings, thoughts, and mood, not the other way around. Because even I at times do get angry and frustrated at someone or the world and turn on that metal and rock and sing and/or dance with it to get the bad energy out."

The young man obviously listened to a lot of Marilyn Manson and similar music. Why didn't all this listening "calm the savage beast" within him, and "get the bad energy out."?

If what you allege is true, he should've been one of the calmest and most peaceful kids around.

That's why I'm thinking this is more like the Columbine situation. The kid felt society hates him, and in this case, like Columbine's it was a more church-filled religious one conflicting with his views, and he felt there was no way out.

Doesn't mean he was right, just means that the Church and its followers have again proven why their way is the "right way" by pressuring those following the "wrong way" to total insanity.

 

[Followers4christ]

Since the 1970's school shooting's became a regular thing we see in schools why do you think that is? Is it because people are just going nuts are is it because we are now living in a violent culture that preys on the weak minded the youth? Im not just talking about music but the culture as a whole.Has the media gone too far by pushing this violent culture on the kids through music,movies,magazines,video games, and trends.Is it healthy to push this violent and over-sexualized culture on the youth of this nation and think there are no consequences? We take God out and put this violent and over-sexualized culture in and look at the results.God Bless

 

[Harpuia]

Since the 1970's school shooting's became a regular thing we see in schools why do you think that is? Is it because people are just going nuts are is it because we are now living in a violent culture that preys on the weak minded the youth? Im not just talking about music but the culture as a whole.

Why is it that way?

It was about the time the Christians started becoming more aggressive as well, if I do recall, due to the "declining morality".

And school shootings keep becoming more frequent, to the point that this one which 10 years ago would've been a big deal, becomes a mere afterthought. They keep getting more aggressive, keep rejecting others. There are some that can't be helped (like VT), but most of these cases could've been stopped through love rather than brutal hate.

Has the media gone too far by pushing this violent culture on the kids through music,movies,magazines,video games, and trends.Is it healthy to push this [/SIZE]

violent and over-sexualized culture on the youth of this nation and think there are no consequences? We take God out and put this violent and over-sexualized culture in and look at the results.God Bless

I'm sorry, but society was just as violent and sex-filled back then. The only difference between 50 years ago and today is that those religious people have been a lot more aggressive on the more introverted teens. What was simply mere teasing and roughhousing has become a lot worse. I know, because I've been there.

And it gets worse that after one of those shootings, those kids get targeted by the society around them, so they can't do anything about it. While those religious teens move on to better lives, many of those on the wrong end of the coin wind up wallowing in hatred for the rest of their lives.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Right. We should return to the good ol' days of Christian morality.

Everything was just peachy keen back then.

 

[Kahlan]

"There is the saying that music calms the savage breast. That is very true."

Calm, inspiring music will indeed "calm the savage beast". Thus it logically follows that extraordinarily loud, hate-filled, cacaphonous, dissonant, demonically inspired music will INCITE the savage beast.

"The boy was likely drawn to Manson because it reflected his feelings, thoughts, and mood, not the other way around. Because even I at times do get angry and frustrated at someone or the world and turn on that metal and rock and sing and/or dance with it to get the bad energy out."

The young man obviously listened to a lot of Marilyn Manson and similar music. Why didn't all this listening "calm the savage beast" within him, and "get the bad energy out."?

If what you allege is true, he should've been one of the calmest and most peaceful kids around.

Incite? Doubtful. Energized, yes.

Tell you what. Let's do an experiment. YOU go listen to Manson and see if listening to it makes you want to become violent, get a couple guns and such and go kill people. If it does, well, then, you've proved yourself right!

Tell me, would you say the exact same if the fight had been about something else and the boy had listened to christian rock music and followed them? That his Christian music and/or Christian artist was the cause of his shooting spree?

There is more to this than JUST listening to music or following Manson, which you refuse to recognize. From what you post, you want to lay the blame on MANSON period--not the boy responsible for the shooting and all the events which led up to it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Speaking of Columbine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxdA-MeMUuw

 

[icedtea]

This thread has turned out odd. Here I thought people would come here and say they were praying for the victims and the boys parents.

 

[Sphere]

Sounds like another Marilyn Manson's fan went on a rampage.If you listen to violent music,movies,games, and read it,it will sooner or later affect your actions.God Bless

Wrong.

Look at my second post to know whats behind the underlines.I do not support bullying anyone nor do I feel that people should look down on them.Even the Columbine shooting was influenced by satanic music and other violent "entertainment".

No, it wasn't. It was fueled because they were systematically bullied at school, gradually became anti-social and took matters into their own hands. Hundreds of thousands of children and teenagers listen to violent music, watch violence on TV, and play violent video games. And they do not kill their classmates.

You are wrong.

But the point is if you listen to violent music,movies,games, and read it,it will sooner or later affect your actions.God Bless

No, they won't. You are wrong. Again.

Since the 1970's school shooting's became a regular thing we see in schools why do you think that is?

Wrong, they are not a regular thing. They are actually extraordinarily rare. There is a perception of them being a regular thing because their rarity and nature of them makes for a perfect story--they are therefore heavily covered by the media. Tricking gullible people(like you?) into believing they are actually common. They aren't.

Is it because people are just going nuts are is it because we are now living in a violent culture that preys on the weak minded the youth? Im not just talking about music but the culture as a whole.

If the culture had the influence to create violent and potentially dangerous people--as you pretend it does--then we would be seeing a whole lot more mass shootings and violence. These things are EXTREMELY rare.

Has the media gone too far by pushing this violent culture on the kids through music,movies,magazines,video games, and trends.

Ironic that you mention the media, apparently you've fallen right into their pockets. They have convinced you that these events are common.

Is it healthy to push this violent and over-sexualized culture on the youth of this nation and think there are no consequences? We take God out and put this violent and over-sexualized culture in and look at the results.God Bless

You have deluded yourself into believe that The Youth® of america is some hive-minded collective, that clearly must be mentally equivalent to the Borg. You are so wrong, it hurts--and you simply don't grasp the reality and the nature of these shootings. Thus the reasoning why you affix blame to things that have nothing to do with them.

 

[Harpuia]

edited after discussion

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

LOL!!

I listened to KMFDM as a teenager and they are totally warping their message and lyrics. In some cases, they quoted lyrics where they were either mocking those that didn't understand them "message from Satan" (this is about the stupidity of people thinking their German lyrics being backwards English) or speaking against a particular subject by describing it from its point of view (such as the drug culture from a drug dealers point of view).

 

[Christian Soldier]

This thread has turned out odd. Here I thought people would come here and say they were praying for the victims and the boys parents.

I prayed for them all, the instant I read the article.

 

[Christian Soldier]

LOL!!

I listened to KMFDM as a teenager and they are totally warping their message and lyrics. In some cases, they quoted lyrics where they were either mocking those that didn't understand them "message from Satan" (this is about the stupidity of people thinking their German lyrics being backwards English) or speaking against a particular subject by describing it from its point of view (such as the drug culture from a drug dealers point of view).

No, they're NOT warping their lyrics. In fact, if you even watched the clip, you would be aware that they overdubbed the ORIGINAL lyrics, in GERMAN, so we would know that they were accurately translating the lyrics.

Sorry, but your protestations are irrelevant to the truth.

 

[Kahlan]

You know, I agree with Criminology on this, however I do wish to state something else.

I see a Church vs anti-Church going on here, which is NOT what I am advocating nor encouraging. All these events mentioned in this thread are perpetrated by individuals or a small group of like-minded individuals. Everyone, Christian and non-Christian, is laying blame on each other or perceived stereotypes of such in this discussion. That seems to be the way these days. No one can believe that children or young teens can be violent, especially not Christian ones! Well, to be honest and truthful, that's a load of crap.

I know from personal experience that people raised in murderous cultures can be non-violent. It has been proven time and time again that children growing up in supposed "perfect" peaceful cultures go on killing sprees.

The Church side blames music and video games and artists for the problems. Anti-Church blames the Church because there were Christians involved. This is based on labeling and sterotyping, instead of blaming it on all the INDIVIDUALS involved. Let's not blame it on the people who did it, it was *insert side's "enemy" here*!

All violence in the world, not just the US, would cease to be if EVERY INDIVIDUAL (christian or not) followed the one commandment that Christ stated. "Love thy neighbor as thyself." I guess in this day and age, most everyone hates him or herself, then don't they?

How difficult is it to follow the Golden Rule: (paraphrased) Treat others the way YOU wish to be treated? In response to someone mistreating you, being violent towards you, it CAN be done... if you are a strong enough person. However, a lot of us are not or have never learned to treat others with kindness and respect and love, even those we don't think deserve it. We want REVENGE!

Everyone of these school shooting instances have been the results of a few individuals out of MILLIONS in the US. How is that common? It's not. It's more common for street gangs to assault someone or kill an enemy gang.

You know, the Churchies should stop declaring all Christians are innocent and perfect and unable to do anything to cause conflict or disturbance because it's a lie. No one is perfect and EVERYONE does things they shouldn't, even cruel acts, and justify themselves for doing it. The Anti-Churchies should stop claiming it's all the Church's fault because the individuals involved happened to be people who CLAIM they are christian, yet don't behave as such.

Put the blame where it belongs... ON THE INDIVIDUALS.

 

[Harpuia]

You know, I agree with Criminology on this, however I do wish to state something else.

I see a Church vs anti-Church going on here, which is NOT what I am advocating nor encouraging. All these events mentioned in this thread are perpetrated by individuals or a small group of like-minded individuals. Everyone, Christian and non-Christian, is laying blame on each other or perceived stereotypes of such in this discussion. That seems to be the way these days. No one can believe that children or young teens can be violent, especially not Christian ones! Well, to be honest and truthful, that's a load of crap.

I know from personal experience that people raised in murderous cultures can be non-violent. It has been proven time and time again that children growing up in supposed "perfect" peaceful cultures go on killing sprees.

The Church side blames music and video games and artists for the problems. Anti-Church blames the Church because there were Christians involved. This is based on labeling and sterotyping, instead of blaming it on all the INDIVIDUALS involved. Let's not blame it on the people who did it, it was *insert side's "enemy" here*!

All violence in the world, not just the US, would cease to be if EVERY INDIVIDUAL (christian or not) followed the one commandment that Christ stated. "Love thy neighbor as thyself." I guess in this day and age, most everyone hates him or herself, then don't they?

How difficult is it to follow the Golden Rule: (paraphrased) Treat others the way YOU wish to be treated? In response to someone mistreating you, being violent towards you, it CAN be done... if you are a strong enough person. However, a lot of us are not or have never learned to treat others with kindness and respect and love, even those we don't think deserve it. We want REVENGE!

Everyone of these school shooting instances have been the results of a few individuals out of MILLIONS in the US. How is that common? It's not. It's more common for street gangs to assault someone or kill an enemy gang.

You know, the Churchies should stop declaring all Christians are innocent and perfect and unable to do anything to cause conflict or disturbance because it's a lie. No one is perfect and EVERYONE does things they shouldn't, even cruel acts, and justify themselves for doing it. The Anti-Churchies should stop claiming it's all the Church's fault because the individuals involved happened to be people who CLAIM they are christian, yet don't behave as such.

Put the blame where it belongs... ON THE INDIVIDUALS.

*sigh*

I guess you're right in a way...

I should edit my earlier post then.

 

[marblehead]

Sorry, but your protestations are irrelevant to the truth.

What is the truth?

I've listened to all the music that has been mentioned in this thread and never had the desire to shoot someone.
Quit focusing on the music as if it turns people into zombies. I agree with Kahlan in that individuals choose their actions.

People have killed each other for as long as there have been people.

 

[Sphere]

TV and Marilyn Manson do not create spree shooters. Music videos and rap music doesn't create "thugs" and gang violence. The reasons for violence and crime vary invariably from person to person. It's incredibly short sighted--and wrong--to say "Ha hah, see, he did X because he watched too many Bruce Lee movies". Millions of people watch Bruce Lee, watch the media, and listen to violent music and play video games. They don't become killers.

The question should be: If the "Culture of Violence" is so influential on people's actions--as some people want you to believe--why don't we see more of these events? Why are these events so incredibly rare?

 

[Followers4christ]

Wrong.



Hundreds of thousands of children and teenagers listen to violent music, watch violence on TV, and play violent video games. And they do not kill their classmates.

You are wrong.

Here are some Statistics of what this generation is facing.Our generation is in crisis even if you do not want to see it and face the truth.We must all wake up and save this young generation before its too late.God Bless


Studies have shown that 73% of boys and 78% of girls between the ages of 12 to 19 watch over 6 hours of MTV every week! Take into consideration what they are watching every hour. The statistics show that an average hour of MTV contains; six violent scenes, eight profanities, and nine instances of sexual content. One young person said; "I think MTV is getting us ready for the real world." MTV's take on this issue; "We don't advertise to this generation. WE OWN THIS GENERATION."

This generation spends three hours a day online and is the first to grow up with point-and-click inappropriate contentography. Almost 90 percent of teens have viewed inappropriate contentography online at one of the 300,000 adult websites, most while doing homework.

"More than 25 percent of teen-targeted radio segments contain sexual content; 42 percent of the top selling CDs contain sexual content."

1 in 2 of us are no longer virgins.

9 out of 10 of us have seen inappropriate content online.

1 out of 10 fifteen year olds and younger have gone through family divorce in their life-time.

1 in 3 of us have been drunk in the last month.

1 in 4 of us use illegal drugs.

1 in 5 contemplated suicide,over 1,500 kill themselves each year.

1 in 10 of us has been Raped at some point in their life.

1 Million woman are pregnant,340,000 women get abortions each year.

8,000 of us contract an STD every day.

40% have experimented with Self-injury ("are "cutters").

48% of high school seniors are Sexually Active (had sexual intercourse in past 3 months).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqRCAKHs1TY




65% say there is no way to tell which religion is true.

91% say there is No Absolute Truth.

75% of teens in America believe the central message of the Bible is, "God helps those who help themselves".

53% believe Jesus committed sin (40% of born again teens believe Jesus committed sin).

35% of adults are Bible beliving Christians.While the numbers show 35% of adults are Bible beliving Christians,at the present rate of evangelism that number will drop to 4% for this new generation.What will it look like then?

Up to 90% of those who come to Christ do so before they are 20.Within 5 years most of this generation will be in their 20's.What we do in the next 5 years,will lay the coures for the next 50 years of american history.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

No, they're NOT warping their lyrics. In fact, if you even watched the clip, you would be aware that they overdubbed the ORIGINAL lyrics, in GERMAN, so we would know that they were accurately translating the lyrics.

Sorry, but your protestations are irrelevant to the truth.

They took their lyrics out of context. They didn't overdub the lyrics in German, since most of them are in English. The problem is they took the English lyrics grossly out of context. The subtitles of the clip were not German, btw.