Clean and Un-clean Food

[CherubRam]

That sounds pretty strange coming from a man who partakes of the Sabbath rest even though animals were sacrificed at the Temple every Sabbath.

The Seventh Day Sabbath and Moral Commands remain as part of the New Covenant.

Moses Law: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way...

 

[gadar perets]

Yahshua said:

Matthew 15:11

11 What makes a person unclean is not what goes into his mouth; rather, what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him unclean!”

Correct. In context, Yeshua was referring to eating CLEAN food with dirty hands (Matthew 15:2, 20).

 

[CherubRam]

Who is "they"? YHWH Himself told us the horse was unclean and inedible.

Lev 11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
Lev 11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.​

The horse does not part the hoof or chew the cud. They are as unclean as every other abomination that people eat.

Here in America a Horse is the cleanest animal.

 

[visionary]

Yahshua said:

Matthew 15:11 What makes a person unclean is not what goes into his mouth; rather, what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him unclean!”

What makes a person unclean is not kosher food that goes into his mouth with unwashed hands according to Oral Tradition.

Matt 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashed hands defileth not a man.

The filth in the verbiage he uses whether in insults, accusations that are not true, bad language, etc or in this case that which Yeshua was dealing with, people claiming but not living it.

Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[visionary]

Here in America a Horse is the cleanest animal.

Cows don't get heart worms, horses do. That stomach process makes the difference.

 

[CherubRam]

Correct. In context, Yeshua was referring to eating CLEAN food with dirty hands (Matthew 15:2, 20).

He said: "what goes into his mouth..."

Unwashed hands may or may not be contaminated. They were not eating there hands.
Matt 15
6 “Are you still so dull?' Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

 

[gadar perets]

The Seventh Day Sabbath and Moral Commands remain as part of the New Covenant.

What does that matter? Your argument was that I can't partake of the festivals because sacrifices were done on those days. The sameholds true for the Sabbath. In reality, sacrifices were done every day so I guess we can't partake of any day based on your logic.

Moses Law: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way...

The handwriting of ordinances does not refer to the law of Moses. It refers to man made laws. The Greek word for ordinances here is a form of the root word "dogma" which means man-made rules, laws, commandments, precepts, etc. Paul is not talking about YHWH's ordinances or Moses' ordinances in this verse. He is talking about man's ordinances or traditions. This same word is used in Colossians 2:20 pertaining to the doctrines and commandments of men; in Luke 2:1 pertaining to a decree from Caesar Augustus; in Acts 17:7 pertaining to a decree from Caesar; and in Ephesians 2:15 concerning the ordinances of men. It always pertains to man's commandments, not YHWH's. Compare the word dogma with the Greek word that pertains to YHWH's ordinances, "dikaioma."

This word dikaioma was used in Luke 1:6 pertaining to the ordinances of YHWH and in Hebrews 9:1,10 pertaining once again to YHWH's ordinances. Therefore, Paul is saying in Colossians 2:14 that the traditions and commandments of men are the issue, not YHWH's laws. But what was nailed to the cross? The Greek construction shows that the "handwriting" was nailed, not the ordinances. The handwriting or, in Greek, the "cheirographon" was a certificate of debt. Whenever a man sins against YHWH his sin is imputed against him (Romans 4:7,8). When men exalt the traditions of men over the commandments of YHWH, as the Pharisees did, for example, they sin against YHWH. The Messiah became sin for us and when he was nailed to the tree so were the sins that were imputed against us. YHWH's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins" in verse 13. The principalities and powers of verse 15 caused the people to sin by their man-made laws but Messiah was victorious over them.

 

[CherubRam]

Cows don't get heart worms, horses do. That stomach process makes the difference.

Worms in Cow: Cows are susceptible to parasite attacks from numerous sources and the most common parasites are stomach worms, lungworms, intestinal round worms, heel fly larva (grubs), ticks, lice, horn flies, liver flukes, cattle tape worms and coccidian.

 

[gadar perets]

He said: "what goes into his mouth..."

Unwashed hands may or may not be contaminated. They were not eating there hands.
Matt 15
6 “Are you still so dull?' Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

If you choose to mishandle the Word by taking things out of context, so be it. YHWH said;

Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
Lev 11:44 For I am YHWH your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Yet you choose to twist the Word so that Yeshua contradicts or overrides his Father's commandments. Sad indeed.

 

[CherubRam]

What does that matter? Your argument was that I can't partake of the festivals because sacrifices were done on those days. The sameholds true for the Sabbath. In reality, sacrifices were done every day so I guess we can't partake of any day based on your logic.


The handwriting of ordinances does not refer to the law of Moses. It refers to man made laws. The Greek word for ordinances here is a form of the root word "dogma" which means man-made rules, laws, commandments, precepts, etc. Paul is not talking about YHWH's ordinances or Moses' ordinances in this verse. He is talking about man's ordinances or traditions. This same word is used in Colossians 2:20 pertaining to the doctrines and commandments of men; in Luke 2:1 pertaining to a decree from Caesar Augustus; in Acts 17:7 pertaining to a decree from Caesar; and in Ephesians 2:15 concerning the ordinances of men. It always pertains to man's commandments, not YHWH's. Compare the word dogma with the Greek word that pertains to YHWH's ordinances, "dikaioma."

This word dikaioma was used in Luke 1:6 pertaining to the ordinances of YHWH and in Hebrews 9:1,10 pertaining once again to YHWH's ordinances. Therefore, Paul is saying in Colossians 2:14 that the traditions and commandments of men are the issue, not YHWH's laws. But what was nailed to the cross? The Greek construction shows that the "handwriting" was nailed, not the ordinances. The handwriting or, in Greek, the "cheirographon" was a certificate of debt. Whenever a man sins against YHWH his sin is imputed against him (Romans 4:7,8). When men exalt the traditions of men over the commandments of YHWH, as the Pharisees did, for example, they sin against YHWH. The Messiah became sin for us and when he was nailed to the tree so were the sins that were imputed against us. YHWH's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins" in verse 13. The principalities and powers of verse 15 caused the people to sin by their man-made laws but Messiah was victorious over them.

Moses was a man.

Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.

 

[CherubRam]

If you choose to mishandle the Word by taking things out of context, so be it. YHWH said;

Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
Lev 11:44 For I am YHWH your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Yet you choose to twist the Word so that Yeshua contradicts or overrides his Father's commandments. Sad indeed.

If they are unclean until evening, then it was about a health risk in the community.

31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

 

[CherubRam]

Moses laws:
Deuteronomy 31:26
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The commandments were inside the Ark.

 

[visionary]

If they are unclean until evening, then it was about a health risk in the community.

31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

Where are you going with this? What is the end conclusion you have come to? And you realize how it does void the Law of God? You also realize that because you have left us, you are now to behave as a guest and only ask questions.

 

[gadar perets]

Moses was a man.

Moses did not make his own laws. He simply repeated the laws YHWH gave him to give to Israel.

 

[gadar perets]

If they are unclean until evening, then it was about a health risk in the community.

31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

I agree they were a health risk, but health is only secondary to holiness.

 

[gadar perets]

Moses laws:
Deuteronomy 31:26
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The commandments were inside the Ark.

They were also in the "book of the law". There is no difference between a law and a commandment. They are all part of YHWH's law.

 

[CherubRam]

I agree they were a health risk, but health is only secondary to holiness.

Food does not make a person unholy.

 

[CherubRam]

They were also in the "book of the law". There is no difference between a law and a commandment. They are all part of YHWH's law.

Yes, the laws are all ran together, that is why people are confused. The law was the law in those days, and there was no real distinction.

Jeremiah 31:32
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

 

[gadar perets]

Food does not make a person unholy.

First you make Yeshua contradict YHWH. Now you yourself contradict Him.

Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
Lev 11:44 For I am YHWH your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Lev 11:45 For I am YHWH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
Lev 11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
Lev 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.​

 

[CherubRam]

First you make Yeshua contradict YHWH. Now you yourself contradict Him.

Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
Lev 11:44 For I am YHWH your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Lev 11:45 For I am YHWH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
Lev 11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
Lev 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.​

This is What Yahwah said:

Genesis 9

9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.



Unclean food was foods that were "ceremonially unclean." However, food with blood in it is always unclean.