Clash Over Hunger Strike at Guantanamo Bay

seashale76

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News from The Associated Press

MIAMI (AP) -- Guards clashed Saturday with prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay prison as the military sought to move hunger strikers out of a communal section of the detention center on the U.S. base in Cuba, officials said.

The confrontation occurred after the commander decided to move prisoners into single, solid-walled cells so that prison authorities could monitor them more closely during the hunger strike, the military said...

This wouldn't have occurred had President Obama honored one of his campaign promises of closing it.

Read more about how that turned out here: Daniel Fried, Obama Envoy For Closing Guantanamo Bay Prison, Reassigned
 

jameseb

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That's the kind of the point. They'll become martyrs then, and ones where we really don't have the moral high ground.

How, exactly, do we lose the "moral high ground"?

No nation will accept them for repatriation. Obviously, we can't turn them loose in downtown Los Angeles so what do you propose we do with them?

/sincere question


~edit~

America, land of the free ;)

Paradoxum, since you decided to make a drive-by snipe, I pose the same question to you.
 
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Paradoxum

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Why would we close it?
Let them starve if they refuse to eat. If the food is right there in front of them then they are committing suicide.

You would close it because they have had no trial and torture is conducted there.

No nation will accept them for repatriation. Obviously, we can't turn them loose in downtown Los Angeles so what do you propose we do with them?

/sincere question

Turn them loose in downtown Los Angeles. They haven't been convicted of a crime have they? It is the fault of the American public for voting for someone who would use a place like Guantanamo.

Paradoxum, since you decided to make a drive-by snipe, I pose the same question to you.

What else am I meant to say. America is a joke in this aspect. It claims to be a just nation while it imprisons people without trial and tortures people.
 
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ChristOurCaptain

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You would close it because they have had no trial and torture is conducted there.

(bolding mine)
Has this been PROVEN, or is it just another claim of the jihadists who used to be there, and the lefties who support them?

Turn them loose in downtown Los Angeles. They haven't been convicted of a crime have they? It is the fault of the American public for voting for someone who would use a place like Guantanamo.

A better idea: If you're that convinced that they're harmless, why don't you invite a couple of them to live with you? They haven't been convicted of a crime, have they?

What else am I meant to say. America is a joke in this aspect. It claims to be a just nation while it imprisons people without trial and tortures people.

(bolding mine)
1: Proof, or it didn't happen.
2: Coming from a Briton that's.....kinda funny in the "pot calling the kettle black"-way.
You DO know who invented the KZ-camps that the nazis used, don't you?
 
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ChristOurCaptain

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Why would we close it?
Let them starve if they refuse to eat. If the food is right there in front of them then they are committing suicide.

This.
I've never understood why someone think that people who hunger strike are automatically correct, and should be supported.
 
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Paradoxum

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(bolding mine)
Has this been PROVEN, or is it just another claim of the jihadists who used to be there, and the lefties who support them?

Haven't there been talk in the US of what is an is not torture? Isn't that because the US is using torture or what is close to torture? I though it was common knowledge that America tortures people.

Anyway, why do you think the camp is in Cuba if what they are doing is legal? The things done there are illegal in the US (otherwise they would be no need for it). Do you wonder if there is a good reason why certain things are illegal in the US?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/21/opinion/21lewis.html?th&emc=th

Top News Article | Reuters.com

Army Now Says G.I. Was Beaten in Role - NYTimes.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/09_05_05_fbi_email.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/opinion/americas-shameful-human-rights-record.html

A better idea: If you're that convinced that they're harmless, why don't you invite a couple of them to live with you? They haven't been convicted of a crime, have they?

The UK isn't the nation that violated their humans rights, the US is. It is they who should take the consequences of those violations. It's your own fault your stuck with those people

But considering I'm against detaining people with trial, perhaps it would be helpful for human rights for the UK to take two. I'm sorry if my concern for human rights offends you.

(bolding mine)
1: Proof, or it didn't happen.
2: Coming from a Briton that's.....kinda funny in the "pot calling the kettle black"-way.
You DO know who invented the KZ-camps that the nazis used, don't you?

I don't know the history you are referring to, but I have no problem criticising my country. I hold principles above nationality. I know my country is messed up in various ways. Also, I've never voted for a party that has then violated human rights.
 
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seashale76

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I don't know the history you are referring to, but I have no problem criticising my country. I hold principles above nationality. I know my country is messed up in various ways. Also, I've never voted for a party that has then violated human rights.

Why shouldn't you be held to the same standard you've put upon American citizens and be lumped in with your country? You said this:

It is the fault of the American public for voting for someone who would use a place like Guantanamo.
 
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Paradoxum

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Why shouldn't you be held to the same standard you've put upon American citizens and be lumped in with your country? You said this:

What standard? I mean, what do we have comparable to guantanamo that means we need to let people in our country that we don't want in?

Of course not all Americans are responsible, but their nation messed up and sadly they have to take the consequences of that. If they don't want it to happen again then don't vote for that party again, or they should voice their opinion against that sort of thing.
 
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ChristOurCaptain

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Hbaven't there been talk in the US of what is an is not torture? Isn't that because the US is using torture or what is close to torture? I though it was common knowledge that America tortures people.

Anyway, why do you think the camp is in Cuba if what they are doing is legal? The things done there are illegal in the US (otherwise they would be no need for it). Do you wonder if there is a good reason why certain things are illegal in the US?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/21/opinion/21lewis.html?th&emc=th

Top News Article | Reuters.com

Army Now Says G.I. Was Beaten in Role - NYTimes.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/09_05_05_fbi_email.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/opinion/americas-shameful-human-rights-record.html

Lots of blah blah blah, not a single shred of the evidence I asked for.

The UK isn't the nation that violated their humans rights, the US is. It is they who should take the consequences of those violations. It's your own fault your stuck with those people

1: I don't know how many times I need to tell you to get it through your skull: I'm not American.

2: Setting people who hate Americans lose in America is a time-bomb waiting to go off, and it's completely unacceptable regardless of much you probably want to see that time-bomb go off. So unless other places are willing to take them, Gitmo has to stay open.

But considering I'm against detaining people with trial, perhaps it would be helpful for human rights for the UK to take two. I'm sorry if my concern for human rights offends you.

No, your indifference the innocent civilians that'll be in danger if all of those people are let loose upon America, offends me.

I don't know the history you are referring to,

That's either bovine manure, or evidence that you shouldn't complain about America's education system, as the UK's obviously leaves a lot to be desired as well.
The KZ-camps were a British invention in which tens of thousands of Boers died, during the Second Boer War

Why shouldn't you be held to the same standard you've put upon American citizens and be lumped in with your country? You said this:

Whatever answer she gives, what's between the lines is this:
"Like, that's like totally differentz an stuffzz cuz America like totally suckz"

What standard? I mean, what do we have comparable to guantanamo that means we need to let people in our country that we don't want in?

America doesn't have to let anyone in that it doesn't want to let in. No matter how much you whine about it.
 
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Paradoxum

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Lots of blah blah blah, not a single shred of the evidence I asked for.

Let me just get my camera and head there. I'm sure they would just love video evidence of everything that goes on there.

1: I don't know how many times I need to tell you to get it through your skull: I'm not American.

Probably until you put it below your name. I'm not going to keep track of everyone on here.

2: Setting people who hate Americans lose in America is a time-bomb waiting to go off, and it's completely unacceptable regardless of much you probably want to see that time-bomb go off. So unless other places are willing to take them, Gitmo has to stay open.

Maybe America shouldn't have stuck them in guantanamo then. But obviously I must hate America to be in favour of human rights (even though America once stood for them).

No, your indifference the innocent civilians that'll be in danger if all of those people are let loose upon America, offends me.

That is the price of living with rights and liberties. If you care so much about safety then stick everyone in padded cells so they will be secure their entire lives.

If those people stay in guantanamo it is certain that their rights are violated. If released they can be tracked by security agencies. There is a lower risk that way.

Are you also offended that driving cars is legal? That kills far more people than terrorism, and we know it happens every year.

That's either bovine manure, or evidence that you shouldn't complain about America's education system, as the UK's obviously leaves a lot to be desired as well.

I don't think I ever have complained about America's education system.

You do realise that it is impossible to teach all of history in school? You know there have been alot of wars? Some of those wars just aren't as important as other things to be taught.

The KZ-camps were a British invention in which tens of thousands of Boers died, during the Second Boer War

Ok.

Whatever answer she gives, what's between the lines is this:
"Like, that's like totally differentz an stuffzz cuz America like totally suckz"

Though this is always the argument you fall back on. Do you use it with other people or just me?

It is shallow and substanceless, all your arguments.

I'm not against America. I criticise it because I care about it. I would criticise my own country more if there were more British people on this site.

America doesn't have to let anyone in that it doesn't want to let in. No matter how much you whine about it.

Should we just accept we hate each other and try not to talk to each other any more? Ok... I don't hate you, but we seem to annoy each other unnecessarily.
 
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