Clarifying the Debate "basics" on Sabbath and the TEN Commandments

[Bob S]

Well using your understanding then every thing Paul wrote to the jews shuld go the way of the law and be deleted, is that correct?

That is according to what he was writing about. He told them flatly that they were not under Torah Law. In Col 2:16 he wrote that we should not be judged for not observing new moons, the eight feast Sabbaths and the weekly Sabbath. They all were only shadows. Jesus is reality

 

[Yekcidmij]

Ex 34 is one-to-one with Moses not with all Israel and God thundering words down the mountain.

Ex 34 - is one-to-one with Moses not with all Israel and God thundering words down the mountain.

And rather than writing a different set of words on stone -- God said "Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you smashed."

I'm not buying it. Ex 34 says it lists 10 commandments (contained in vss 11-26), the covenant with Israel, written on two stones just like the first. I'm aware you will likely be unable to accept this given prior commitments and the fact that you don't follow the commands in this list. But when I read the text, that's what I see and see no sufficient reasons to think otherwise. The list in Ex 34 is 10 commandments given to Israel as a covenant and written on two tablets just like the first. The list even institutes the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not buying it. Ex 34 says it lists 10 commandments (contained in vss 11-26), the covenant with Israel, written on two stones just like the first. I'm aware you will likely be unable to accept this given prior commitments and the fact that you don't follow the commands in this list. But when I read the text, that's what I see and see no sufficient reasons to think otherwise. The list in Ex 34 is 10 commandments given to Israel as a covenant and written on two tablets just like the first. The list even institutes the Sabbath.

According to scripture its the EXACT same commandments.

Deuteronomy 10:4
And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments Reviewed (from Exodus 20)5 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive. 4 The Lord talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire. 5 I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain. He said:

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

11 ‘You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

12 ‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

16 ‘Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

17 ‘You shall not murder.

18 ‘You shall not commit adultery.

19 ‘You shall not steal.

20 ‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

21 ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.’

22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

This statement:

and the fact that you don't follow the commands in this list.

I would leave in God's hands as He is the only one who is all-knowing.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
God only speaks the ten - once directly to Israel from the mountain and that is in Ex 20.

No confusion at all in that case - no matter how often they get quoted and repeated by others.

...
Ex 34 is one-to-one with Moses not with all Israel and God thundering words down the mountain.

Ex 34 - is one-to-one with Moses not with all Israel and God thundering words down the mountain.

And rather than writing a different set of words on stone -- God said Ex 34:1 "Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you smashed."

Deut 5 is Moses writing 40 years after the event - and reminding them to remember the words spoken directly to Israel in Ex 20. There is no case in Deut 5 where 40 years after the Ex 20 Sinai event God is once again thundering words down the mountain --- speaking directly to all the nation.

Deut 4:10 Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, ‘Assemble the people to Me, that I may have them hear My words so that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.’ 11 You came forward and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain was burning with fire to the heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud, and thick gloom. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form—there was only a voice. 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone,,, 15 “So be very careful yourselves, since you did not see any form on the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire,

THE TEN - according to Deut 4 - are those words spoken 40 years earlier directly to Israel - out of the fire at the top of the mountain directly to the entire camp.

====================

Deut 5:4 The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up on the mountain

22 “These words the Lord spoke to your whole assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, from the cloud, and from the thick darkness, with a great voice, and He added nothing more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me

Not "I hereby chisel new tables of stone" in that Duet 5 case - but rather a direct reference back to the Ex 20 event itself - and the Ex 20 stones Ex 31:18.

I'm not buying it.

Ex 34 says vs 1 "I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you smashed"

Israel still knows what that is - to this very day.

The Baptist Confession of faith still claims to know what it is to this very day\
The Westminster Confession of Faith still claims to know what that is to this very day.
D.L. Moody still claimed to know it.
The Catholic Catechism, Dies Domini and "The Faith Explained" all claim to still know

In fact almost all Bible scholars on planet Earth - agree on that point.

. I'm aware you will likely be unable to accept this given prior commitments

That would be "me and almost all Bible scholars on planet Earth including the Jews and pretty much all historic documents on this subject" -- that you suppose have "prior commitments"? Not allowing them to ignore Ex 34:1???

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry my friend, Jesus fulfilled the law

And yet it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain and to dishonor parents.

Jesus' compliance with moral commandments does not delete them -- as it turns out.

Messianic Jews still know this is true - to this very day.

The Baptist Confession of faith still shows this is true to this very day
The Westminster Confession of Faith still shows this is true to this very day
D.L. Moody still claimed to know it.
The Catholic Catechism, Dies Domini and "The Faith Explained" all claim to still know this is true

In fact almost all Bible scholars on planet Earth - agree on that point.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob

Please show us where the gentiles were commanded not to steal.

And where they are told in the NT "Do not take God's name in vain"
And where they are told "ignore scripture - just start over"