Clarification on the Creation

[Nevada Smith]

◄ Colossians 1:15-16 ► NIV
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

This being true, then the creation in Genesis should read:

◄ Genesis 1 ► NIV

The Beginning

1In the beginning God the Son created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God the Son was hovering over the waters.

3And God the Son said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4God the Son saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5God the Son called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6And God the Son said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7So God the Son made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8God the Son called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9And God the Son said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10God the Son called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God the Son saw that it was good.


26Then God the Son said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27So God the Son created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God the Son he created them;
male and female he created them.

28God the Son blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Genesis 1:1 begins by the words, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". The word "God" in Hebrew, is "Elohim", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number. This means that The Godhead is NOT singular. Genesis 1:26 says. "Then God said, “Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness...". This does NOT mean as some suppose, that God was here speaking to His angels, or any other heavenly being. Humans are made in the "image of God" (1 Corinthians 11:7).

Jesus Christ is Creator WITH The Father, Who also created, "For it was fitting that He (The Father), for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering" (Hebrews 2:10). And, WITH The Holy Spirit, ""The Spirit has made (ʻâsâh, same word used for the whole of Creation in Genesis 2:4) me and the breath of the Almighty gives me life." (Job 33:4). The Three Persons of the Holy Trinity were TOGETHER active in the Creation of the entire universe.

 

[Nevada Smith]

Genesis 1:1 begins by the words, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". The word "God" in Hebrew, is "Elohim", which is masculine in gender, and plural in number. This means that The Godhead is NOT singular. Genesis 1:26 says. "Then God said, “Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness...". This does NOT mean as some suppose, that God was here speaking to His angels, or any other heavenly being. Humans are made in the "image of God" (1 Corinthians 11:7).

Jesus Christ is Creator WITH The Father, Who also created, "For it was fitting that He (The Father), for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering" (Hebrews 2:10). And, WITH The Holy Spirit, ""The Spirit has made (ʻâsâh, same word used for the whole of Creation in Genesis 2:4) me and the breath of the Almighty gives me life." (Job 33:4). The Three Persons of the Holy Trinity were TOGETHER active in the Creation of the entire universe.

I agree the Godhead is plural, God the Father and God the Son.

"Jesus Christ is Creator WITH The Father"
Do you think that ◄ Colossians 1:15-16 ► NIV should read?
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him, with his Father, all things were created:

Yes there is the plural usage in Genesis 1:26. However in the second creation of man Genesis 2 15-19, there is no "us" or "our." Genesis 1:26 is the only place in the Bible that "us" and "our" is used.

"Humans are made in the "image of God" And the heavenly hosts are not?
Were Angels Created in the Image of God?

Do you think that Genesis 1:1 should read:
1In the beginning the Holy Trinity created the heavens and the earth.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

I agree the Godhead is plural, God the Father and God the Son

also God the Holy Spirit

It is not expected in every reference to Creation, that "plural" language must be used. If the Bible just says once, that The Three Persons in the Godhead Created all things, then it should be enough. Nor does it have to say at every instance, that the Three Created, it is not a problem to say Jesus Created, or The Father Created, or The Holy Spirit Created, in different verses, as they all speak the same truth.

Ecc 12:1 "Remember now thy Creator (Hebrew is plural, Creators) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them"

Isa 54:5 "For thy Maker (Hebrew is plural, Makers) is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called"

What exactly are you trying to get to?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. (Genesis 3:8)

John 1
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Nevada Smith]

also God the Holy Spirit

It is not expected in every reference to Creation, that "plural" language must be used. If the Bible just says once, that The Three Persons in the Godhead Created all things, then it should be enough. Nor does it have to say at every instance, that the Three Created, it is not a problem to say Jesus Created, or The Father Created, or The Holy Spirit Created, in different verses, as they all speak the same truth.

Ecc 12:1 "Remember now thy Creator (Hebrew is plural, Creators) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them"

Isa 54:5 "For thy Maker (Hebrew is plural, Makers) is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called"

What exactly are you trying to get to?

◄ Colossians 1:15-16 ► NIV

also God the Holy Spirit

It is not expected in every reference to Creation, that "plural" language must be used. If the Bible just says once, that The Three Persons in the Godhead Created all things, then it should be enough. Nor does it have to say at every instance, that the Three Created, it is not a problem to say Jesus Created, or The Father Created, or The Holy Spirit Created, in different verses, as they all speak the same truth.

Ecc 12:1 "Remember now thy Creator (Hebrew is plural, Creators) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them"

Isa 54:5 "For thy Maker (Hebrew is plural, Makers) is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called"

What exactly are you trying to get to?

God the Holy Spirit? Where is that in Bible?

◄ Colossians 1:15-16 ► NIV Says God the Son created all things. Not God the Father, not the Trinity, not the Easter bunny, but simply God the Son.

"What exactly are you trying to get to?"
Just sharing my thoughts on the creation in a form entitled 'Creation & Theistic Evolution.' And expressing my frustration with people that can come up with the most convoluted arguments to "prove" that the Bible really doesn't mean what it says.

None of Christ's disciples were scribes, rabbis, or priest. Christ spoke to the masses, not to the learned elite. It seems that being educated was a hindrance to understanding His teachings.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

God the Holy Spirit? Where is that in Bible?

"But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” (Acts 5:3-4)

Peter tells Ananias, that he had lied "to the Holy Spirit". In the next verse he shows the severity of his sin, in that he actually had lied "to God". Very clear testimony to the Holy Spirit being Almighty God"

Look also at this verse in the Book of Samuel;

2 Samuel 23:2

"The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me (heb. verb, ‘dibber’, is masculine); His word (heb. noun, ‘millah’, feminine) is on my tongue. The God of Israel has spoken; the Rock of Israel has said to me” (ESV Hebrew-English Old Testament)

This is very interesting in the Hebrew text. The subject is “The Spirit of the LORD”, which is used for the One Person. Here “Spirit” is the Hebrew “rauch”, which is a feminine word. (grammatical gender, and nothing to do with the “sex” of the object). However, we would have expected the Hebrew to then use the feminine, “doberot” (speaks); which would grammatically agree with the feminine “rauch”. But, this is not the case. Instead, it reads, “dibber”, which is masculine. This is because the construct-phrase, “The Spirit of the LORD”, is a “Person”, and not just “wind or force”. Here we have very clear testimony to the Deity of the Holy Spirit, and further evidence that He is “uncreated and eternal”, which is the Name YAHWEH, used for the Holy Spirit. Even though there is the use of the feminine Hebrew noun, “millah”, translated “His word”, for grammatical purposes (“rauch”), this does not affect the meaning in any way.

 

[Nevada Smith]

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. (Genesis 3:8)

John 1
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I just wanted to add that LORD God referred to was God the Son.
◄ John 6:46 ► NIV No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Not even Adam saw God the Father.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

◄ Colossians 1:15-16 ► NIV Says God the Son created all things. Not God the Father, not the Trinity, not the Easter bunny, but simply God the Son.

so are you saying that God the Father did not Create? you have misread and misunderstood the Teachings of the Holy Bible!

Read again Hebrews 2:10, "For it was fitting that He (This is God the Father), for whom and by whom all things exist (This is CREATION!), in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering"

VERY clear to me!

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

may I ask what "Christian" you actually are? are you "Jesus ONLY"?

 

[Charlie24]

John said that there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these three are one.

I heard it put this way in construction terms, concerning not only creation but everything willed by the Godhead.

The Father is the owner, He officiates, the Son is the architect that draws the plans, the Holy Spirit is the contractor that carries out the plan.

All three are one God who agree on everything and work together to bring about everything.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

The Father is the owner

teaches the "subordination" of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit within the Godhead, which is IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[Charlie24]

teaches the "subordination" of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit within the Godhead, which is IMPOSSIBLE!

Duet. 10:14,

Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it.

 

[Nevada Smith]

"But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” (Acts 5:3-4)

Peter tells Ananias, that he had lied "to the Holy Spirit". In the next verse he shows the severity of his sin, in that he actually had lied "to God". Very clear testimony to the Holy Spirit being Almighty God"

Look also at this verse in the Book of Samuel;

2 Samuel 23:2

"The Spirit of the LORD speaks by me (heb. verb, ‘dibber’, is masculine); His word (heb. noun, ‘millah’, feminine) is on my tongue. The God of Israel has spoken; the Rock of Israel has said to me” (ESV Hebrew-English Old Testament)

This is very interesting in the Hebrew text. The subject is “The Spirit of the LORD”, which is used for the One Person. Here “Spirit” is the Hebrew “rauch”, which is a feminine word. (grammatical gender, and nothing to do with the “sex” of the object). However, we would have expected the Hebrew to then use the feminine, “doberot” (speaks); which would grammatically agree with the feminine “rauch”. But, this is not the case. Instead, it reads, “dibber”, which is masculine. This is because the construct-phrase, “The Spirit of the LORD”, is a “Person”, and not just “wind or force”. Here we have very clear testimony to the Deity of the Holy Spirit, and further evidence that He is “uncreated and eternal”, which is the Name YAHWEH, used for the Holy Spirit. Even though there is the use of the feminine Hebrew noun, “millah”, translated “His word”, for grammatical purposes (“rauch”), this does not affect the meaning in any way.

"To understand what Peter meant by "to lie to the Holy Spirit," we must see if the context explains what he meant. At the end of Acts 5:4, Peter makes a parallel accusation: "You have not lied to men but to God." "God" is translated from theos, the general Greek word for deity. In the broadest sense, Peter accuses Ananias of sinning against God (see Genesis 20:6; 39:9; Leviticus 6:2; Psalm 51:4)."
Lying to the Holy Spirit

The Hebrew wording and the semantics are interesting. However simply put "The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me" NIV. That is the Lord speaking through David.

 

[Nevada Smith]

so are you saying that God the Father did not Create? you have misread and misunderstood the Teachings of the Holy Bible!

Read again Hebrews 2:10, "For it was fitting that He (This is God the Father), for whom and by whom all things exist (This is CREATION!), in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering"

VERY clear to me!

John 1: 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

This is much clearer.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Duet. 10:14,

Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it.

Great text, but what is your point here?

 

[honey badger]

John said that there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these three are one.

I heard it put this way in construction terms, concerning not only creation but everything willed by the Godhead.

The Father is the owner, He officiates, the Son is the architect that draws the plans, the Holy Spirit is the contractor that carries out the plan.

All three are one God who agree on everything and work together to bring about everything.

John 5:7 was added to some translations in the early fifteen hundreds ... in some earlier translation it appears at the bottom of the page but not in the text ... the Codex Sinaiticus which is one of the earliest hand written Greek copies does not have the "Johannine Coma" .... thing is the foundation of the doctrine of the trinity is based on this verse and yet it is an an interpolation

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

In the broadest sense, Peter accuses Ananias of sinning against God

so says your theology! You have not responded to my question if you are a Jesus ONLY "christian"? Simple question, just a yes or no will do

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

"The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me" NIV

so why us the NIV, which is NOT a literal translation? in the Hebrew original, ONE Person, "The Spirit of the Lord", is He Who is Speaking!. Please show from the Hebrew construction where I am wrong?

 

[Charlie24]

Great text, but what is your point here?

Well, my point is that God the Father owns all things.

In Heb. 1:2 we learn that God the Father has appointed Christ the heir of all things.