Circumcision

[Joshua_5]

The weakest argument of them all.

Not really. When you consider teenagers are at their most vulnerable to peer pressure and suicide during these years, having had a little snip at birth to help make the journey easier is a small price to pay. And that's if you believe the extra foreskin has any use after birth. For those of us who believe its no more than excess skin, the decision is even easier, even discounting the health benefits.

 

[Joshua_5]

I definitely believe that parents should be allowed to make decisions they feel are in their child/children's best interest. If you want to circumcise your son, that's fine by me. However, I'd rather my child make this decision for himself.

Personally, I just wouldn't feel comfortable subjecting my newborn to a procedure that isn't medically necessary.

As Black Ribbon pointed out, many of us who do opt to circumcise do so for medical reasons. Its safer than vaccination, and without the risk of side effects. Many parents vaccinate without a second thought to the side effects which are not insignificant, but have some psychological fear of circumcision, which has fewer risks and greater benefits.

No objections to your reasoning. If I believed there were no medical benefits to circumcision, I would be hesitant to do so, likewise. Those who circumcise simply believe the numerous benefits outweigh any benefit attributable to carrying an extra bit of skin around.

 

[Nithavela]

As Black Ribbon pointed out, many of us who do opt to circumcise do so for medical reasons. Its safer than vaccination, and without the risk of side effects. Many parents vaccinate without a second thought to the side effects which are not insignificant, but have some psychological fear of circumcision, which has fewer risks and greater benefits.

No objections to your reasoning. If I believed there were no medical benefits to circumcision, I would be hesitant to do so, likewise. Those who circumcise simply believe the numerous benefits outweigh any benefit attributable to carrying an extra bit of skin around.

Circumcision has more health benefits than vaccination?

 

[L a n a]

As Black Ribbon pointed out, many of us who do opt to circumcise do so for medical reasons. Its safer than vaccination, and without the risk of side effects. Many parents vaccinate without a second thought to the side effects which are not insignificant, but have some psychological fear of circumcision, which has fewer risks and greater benefits.

No objections to your reasoning. If I believed there were no medical benefits to circumcision, I would be hesitant to do so, likewise. Those who circumcise simply believe the numerous benefits outweigh any benefit attributable to carrying an extra bit of skin around.

That's nice and all, but I still see it as an unnecessary procedure that my future sons won't have to endure, at least not until they are adults and can choose to go through it themselves.

 

[Open Heart]

That's nice and all, but I still see it as an unnecessary procedure that my future sons won't have to endure, at least not until they are adults and can choose to go through it themselves.

Lana, I agree that there is no medical necessity. However, it is a religious necessity for Jews and Muslims. AND it makes things hygienically easier, as well as impedes the spread of AIDS. Therefore, while you may decide not to circumcise, and God bless you, I hope you will allow other parents their right to choose differently.

 

[L a n a]

Lana, I agree that there is no medical necessity. However, it is a religious necessity for Jews and Muslims. AND it makes things hygienically easier, as well as impedes the spread of AIDS. Therefore, while you may decide not to circumcise, and God bless you, I hope you will allow other parents their right to choose differently.

I totally understand the religious aspect (two of my sisters are Jews and my nephews were ritually circumcised). It's just that I'm personally not religious, so I don't find it necessary for my own future sons, if I end up having any.

With that said, if other parents want to have their children circumcised, then they are allowed to do so. It's not my right to dictate what other people do with their own children, regardless of how I might feel.

 

[Nithavela]

I totally understand the religious aspect (two of my sisters are Jews and my nephews were ritually circumcised). It's just that I'm personally not religious, so I don't find it necessary for my own future sons, if I end up having any.

With that said, if other parents want to have their children circumcised, then they are allowed to do so. It's not my right to dictate what other people do with their own children, regardless of how I might feel.

Except that is what society does in the cases of FGM and "setting your child on fire".

 

[L a n a]

Except that is what society does in the cases of FGM and "setting your child on fire".

Which is a good thing. For the record, I find FGM just as horrifying as male circumcision.

 

[Nithavela]

Which is a good thing. For the record, I find FGM just as horrifying as male circumcision.

Thankfully this horrible, barbaric practice is slowly dying out. And FGM too.

 

[Open Heart]

I totally understand the religious aspect (two of my sisters are Jews and my nephews were ritually circumcised). It's just that I'm personally not religious, so I don't find it necessary for my own future sons, if I end up having any.

With that said, if other parents want to have their children circumcised, then they are allowed to do so. It's not my right to dictate what other people do with their own children, regardless of how I might feel.

I think you are the most sensible person in this thread.

 

[Joshua_5]

Except that is what society does in the cases of FGM and "setting your child on fire".

Its really insulting to compare circumcision to FGM or setting children on fire. This is not a view supported by scripture, where Christians are required to have circumcised hearts, and the Jews were rebuked for having hard and uncircumcised hearts (along with other assorted uncircumcised body parts). If circumcision were so harmful as you say, it would not serve as a metaphor for removing what is unclean or sinful or a barrier in the New Testament (let alone have been commanded by God as a sign for all His people in the Old).

Circumcision is a common metaphor in the bible - mutilation of females and burning children is not (God condemned the pagan nations for burning children - but the bible is silent on FGM - perhaps even the pagans didn't stoop to mutilation of the female sexual organ for pleasure).

Its one thing to say you don't like the idea of circumcision or you don't think it is always necessary, but its extremism to compare it to the barbaric practices you do, and certainly I can't see such an extremist view being supported by the bible or Christians who believe scripture to be inspired by God.

 

[Nithavela]

Its really insulting to compare circumcision to FGM or setting children on fire. This is not a view supported by scripture, where Christians are required to have circumcised hearts, and the Jews were rebuked for having hard and uncircumcised hearts (along with other assorted uncircumcised body parts). If circumcision were so harmful as you say, it would not serve as a metaphor for removing what is unclean or sinful or a barrier in the New Testament (let alone have been commanded by God as a sign for all His people in the Old).

Circumcision is a common metaphor in the bible - mutilation of females and burning children is not (God condemned the pagan nations for burning children - but the bible is silent on FGM - perhaps even the pagans didn't stoop to mutilation of the female sexual organ for pleasure).

Its one thing to say you don't like the idea of circumcision or you don't think it is always necessary, but its extremism to compare it to the barbaric practices you do, and certainly I can't see such an extremist view being supported by the bible or Christians who believe scripture to be inspired by God.

Good thing I'm not a christian and don't have to base my arguments or morality on the bible, eh?

 

[Dave-W]

Good thing I'm not a christian and don't have to base my arguments or morality on the bible, eh?

Why is that good?

 

[Nithavela]

Why is that good?

What I actually meant was that Joshuas argument of "well, if it's that bad, why is it in the bible?" doesn't hold any value for me.

 

[Open Heart]

Male Circumcision Protects Women from HIV

South African women whose male partners were circumcised had a reduced risk of contracting HIV infection, researchers reported here at the International AIDS Society Conference on HIV Science.

While circumcision has been known to protect men in high prevalent regions from contracting HIV, the new study indicates that a woman whose most recent sexual partner had been circumcised was 22% less likely to have HIV, said Ayesha Kharsany, PhD, of the Centre for the AIDS Programme of Research in South Africa (CAPRISA) and the University of KwaZulu, Durban.

Kharsany also said that women whose most recent sexual partner had been circumcised were 15% less likely to have genital herpes.

Male Circumcision Protects Women from HIV

 

[Joshua_5]

Male Circumcision Protects Women from HIV

South African women whose male partners were circumcised had a reduced risk of contracting HIV infection, researchers reported here at the International AIDS Society Conference on HIV Science.

While circumcision has been known to protect men in high prevalent regions from contracting HIV, the new study indicates that a woman whose most recent sexual partner had been circumcised was 22% less likely to have HIV, said Ayesha Kharsany, PhD, of the Centre for the AIDS Programme of Research in South Africa (CAPRISA) and the University of KwaZulu, Durban.

Kharsany also said that women whose most recent sexual partner had been circumcised were 15% less likely to have genital herpes.

Male Circumcision Protects Women from HIV

So one could even say its even a bit misogynistic to try to prohibit a simple procedure that not only removes an unwanted and inconvenient flap of skin from males, but is also beneficial in preventing diseases for women. I can't speak for women, but if I were a woman, I would think circumcision is a small price for my husband to pay for (his wife's) better health. As a man, I know it would be difficult to be circumcised at an older age, so why not at 8 days old as in the bible, with minimum pain, fuss or memory?

Its bizarre that some are so opposed to what is a very quick and minor medical procedure, or a religious custom comparable to christening (possibly because they know little about it and place an importance on the excess skin that it doesn't have, or even for prejudicial reasons).

 

[Joshua_5]

What I actually meant was that Joshuas argument of "well, if it's that bad, why is it in the bible?" doesn't hold any value for me.

I understand your point, but the debate is in a Christian forum, so rightly should be debated from a Christian perspective. Were I non-Christian, I would possibly be less certain on this issue.

Didn't most atheists consider foreskin a vestigual evolutionary leftover in the not-so-distant past? (As a Christian, I don't believe in evolution).

 

[Nithavela]

Didn't most atheists consider foreskin a vestigual evolutionary leftover in the not-so-distant past?

Nope.

(As a Christian, I don't believe in evolution).

You seem to be unaware that the vast majority of christians, including catholics, the largest christian denomination, actually "believe" in evolution.

 

[Nithavela]

So one could even say its even a bit misogynistic to try to prohibit a simple procedure that not only removes an unwanted and inconvenient

A foreskin is neither unwanted nor inconvenient most of the time.

 

[pat34lee]

I can find no compelling health reasons for circumcision. Further, I do not find any theological reasons why Christians should circumcise.

However, circumcision remains an initiation into the covenant for Jews. They circumcise on the eighth day as commanded by the scripture--they can't wait until their kids are "old enough to decide for themselves." Our country celebrates freedom of religion, so it is their right.

I believe circumcision is also part of Islam, although I don't know the details.

And how did it get to Islam? From Abraham, through Ishmael.
Long before there were Jews. Circumcision is for ALL of Yahweh's
people.