Cinema World Views

[Resha Caner]

You get your say... until it bumps into constitutional protections. At that point, perhaps you should be arguing that marriage should not entitle anyone to tax privileges.

I have been. But I am a tiny, tiny minority.

It's not just taxes. Thinking that marriage is purely a personal affair that has no community implications ignores the family and community problems that expand like waves around broken marriages, particularly when children are involved. Then those problems aggregate into significant social issues that become negative statistics in a myriad of ways.

Right. I was just using taxes as an example. Of course, in a movie, that can be swept under the rug - ignored to make the alternative look better.

 

[durangodawood]

It's not just taxes. Thinking that marriage is purely a personal affair that has no community implications ignores the family and community problems that expand like waves around broken marriages, particularly when children are involved. Then those problems aggregate into significant social issues that become negative statistics in a myriad of ways.

I was just taking his example of marriage/tax issues.

As for broken families, there doesnt seem to be a big social policy fuss, even from conservatives. Contrast that with gay marriage which brings out the "end of the world" rhetoric.

 

[RDKirk]

I was just taking his example of marriage/tax issues.

As for broken families, there doesnt seem to be a big social policy fuss, even from conservatives. Contrast that with gay marriage which brings out the "end of the world" rhetoric.

The gay marriage issue for American Christians reminds me of the ground campaign of the Persian Gulf war, when General Schwarzkopf put 75% of the entire US Marine Corps on the Kuwaiti border directly facing the Iraqi Army (enticing Saddam Hussein to predict "the mother of all battles") because Schwarzkopf knew that historically Arabs have an old score to settle with the Marine Corps. He knew Hussein's attention would be riveted on those Marines.

When all the time, Schwarzkopf had Army armored divisions making a deep end run through Iraq to come upon the Iraqi army from behind.

For American Christians, the gay marriage issue is like the Marine Corps on the Kuwaiti border. It keeps us from paying attention to the real attack coursing right through us from behind.

 

[durangodawood]

The gay marriage issue for American Christians reminds me of the ground campaign of the Persian Gulf war, when General Schwarzkopf put 75% of the entire US Marine Corps on the Kuwaiti border directly facing the Iraqi Army (enticing Saddam Hussein to predict "the mother of all battles") because Schwarzkopf knew that historically Arabs have an old score to settle with the Marine Corps. He knew Hussein's attention would be riveted on those Marines.

When all the time, Schwarzkopf had Army armored divisions making a deep end run through Iraq to come upon the Iraqi army from behind.

For American Christians, the gay marriage issue is like the Marine Corps on the Kuwaiti border. It keeps us from paying attention to the real attack coursing right through us from behind.

So what is the real attack? And who is the enemy?

 

[RDKirk]

So what is the real attack? And who is the enemy?

Well, if we're talking specifically about marriage, then broken heterosexual marriages is still the major problem, as well as adultery, spouse abuse, and a host of others.

If we want to talk about threats to the church, there aren't nearly as many homosexuals sitting in church pews waiting to get married as there are adulterers, wife-beaters, child-abusers, and such.

As far as "who is the real enemy?"

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[durangodawood]

....make villains of those who did their best to improve the world

For example....?

 

[Resha Caner]

For example....?

I was largely playing devil's advocate, but historical revisionism is an oft used path for PhD candidates who need to find a thesis. The first thing that comes to mind was the recent trend to paint Lincoln as a duplicitous racist. Granted the man had his flaws, but some of the rants I heard were ridiculous.

And I've seen that tactic used against many historical figures - taking a small incident of unsavory behavior and blowing it up as if it represented the entirety of their character.

But the topic is movies, so in that regard an item that comes to mind is the current depiction of men in the 1960s. The boomers are nostalgic about the 1960s, and also seem determined to rewrite history to make true Jack Weinberg's statement to "never trust anyone over 30". As such, any white male over 30 in a movie about the 1960s is a misogynist. For example, I recently watched "Flawless" (2007) starring Demi Moore and Michael Caine. It's actually a fun movie, but every guy in the movie manipulates women - every single one - even Michael Caine's character, whom we're supposed to feel some sympathy for - some justification for his actions. My wife also liked the movie, but commented on the way the editing and framing of the picture used a stark separation of style to create "female" settings and "male" settings to produce different moods when men were on screen vs. when woman were on screen.

 

[Radagast]

For broad appeal on the world market, I doubt most films have much of a 'worldview'

That's exactly wrong. Movies carry along all kinds of assumptions about ethics, the purpose of life, etc.

 

[Radagast]

Where i have a problem, is when hollywood takes a historical event and twists it every which way, to create a certain story, that didnt happen.

It's always interesting to watch a Hollywood film when you know something about what really happened.

 

[Radagast]

Perhaps the best example I can think of is Seven Samurai and the Magnificent Seven (1960).

Going the other way, Kurosawa did a Japanese version of King Lear (Ran), but with sons instead of daughters.

 

[durangodawood]

I was largely playing devil's advocate, but historical revisionism is an oft used path for PhD candidates who need to find a thesis. The first thing that comes to mind was the recent trend to paint Lincoln as a duplicitous racist. Granted the man had his flaws, but some of the rants I heard were ridiculous.

And I've seen that tactic used against many historical figures - taking a small incident of unsavory behavior and blowing it up as if it represented the entirety of their character.

But the topic is movies, so in that regard an item that comes to mind is the current depiction of men in the 1960s. The boomers are nostalgic about the 1960s, and also seem determined to rewrite history to make true Jack Weinberg's statement to "never trust anyone over 30". As such, any white male over 30 in a movie about the 1960s is a misogynist. For example, I recently watched "Flawless" (2007) starring Demi Moore and Michael Caine. It's actually a fun movie, but every guy in the movie manipulates women - every single one - even Michael Caine's character, whom we're supposed to feel some sympathy for - some justification for his actions. My wife also liked the movie, but commented on the way the editing and framing of the picture used a stark separation of style to create "female" settings and "male" settings to produce different moods when men were on screen vs. when woman were on screen.

Pretty sure you wont see a major movie painting Lincoln as a raging racist anytime soon.

Maybe theres something generally true about older men in the 60's and before. I mean there were very very few women in any kind of positions of power back then.

 

[RDKirk]

Going the other way, Kurosawa did a Japanese version of King Lear (Ran), but with sons instead of daughters.

The "Last Man Standing" plot (a lone fighter straddling two feuding families) has bounced between the US and Japan several times. From what I know it began as Dashiell Hammett's 1928 book Red Harvest in the US, was made into the movie Yojimbo in Japan, that was remade as "For a Fistful of Dollars," went back to Japan for a movie whose name I can't recall, came back to the US as "Last Man Standing."

 

[Radagast]

The "Last Man Standing" plot (a lone fighter straddling two feuding families) has bounced between the US and Japan several times. From what I know it began as Dashiell Hammett's 1928 book Red Harvest in the US, was made into the movie Yojimbo in Japan, that was remade as "For a Fistful of Dollars," went back to Japan for a movie whose name I can't recall, came back to the US as "Last Man Standing."

I've also seen it done as a B-grade SciFi movie (can't remember the name).

Thanks for the Red Harvest reference. Did not know that.

 

[RDKirk]

I've also seen it done as a B-grade SciFi movie (can't remember the name).

Thanks for the Red Harvest reference. Did not know that.

I suspect the plot goes back a couple of thousand years.

 

[Radagast]

I suspect the plot goes back a couple of thousand years.

Not sure. It requires a certain degree of cynicism.

Perhaps if there had been a "god with no name" outside Troy...

 

[RDKirk]

Not sure. It requires a certain degree of cynicism.

Perhaps if there had been a "god with no name" outside Troy...

There you go, Resha Caner, you can write that.

 

[Dave-W]

That's the positive spin on it. Someone else might say they glamorize:
* Do what's best for me, not for others
* Preserve artificial spaces that aren't "natural" at all where I can hike without being bothered while others starve
* Oversimplifications of history to make heroes where they didn't exist and to make villains of those who did their best to improve the world

That sells too...

 

[Dave-W]

But binding someone to taxes without representation ... well, we know the history of that.

It is what the citizens of DC put up with every day.

 

[Resha Caner]

Pretty sure you wont see a major movie painting Lincoln as a raging racist anytime soon.

I wouldn't bet on it. After all, there was the film about that sad period in Lincoln's life when he persecuted the vampire community. I'm sorry, I need to be PC ... the VWM community.

Maybe theres something generally true about older men in the 60's and before. I mean there were very very few women in any kind of positions of power back then.

Uh huh. All men in the 1960s were misogynist and there's no other explanation as to why women didn't hold power in days gone by. That's gotta be it.

The funny part, IMO, is that that's the measure. I once saw a news piece on female business owners. They focused on a woman who owned a construction company. Huh. Why did they pick that industry for their piece? Can't imagine why.

Of course that meant shooting on construction sites, and in the background you could see that all her employees were ... uh ... male. Hmm ... And not a comment from the owner about how she hoped to change that.

After I saw that, I thought it would be an interesting study to see if female-owned businesses had a more balanced gender ratio among their employees, fewer harassment claims, a lower gender pay gap, etc. I don't know if something like that's been done, but a second interesting anecdote was an NPR piece done on the women's march in 2018. They interviewed a black woman who was very critical, stating that it was not a "women's" march, but a white, rich, women's march. NPR then looked at the numbers, and they supported that claim.

My point: I doubt in the long run women leaders will prove any less gender-biased, racist, etc. than men. It will be different, but not necessarily better. That's no reason to exclude them, but I don't see that it's going to bring paradise on earth either.

 

[Resha Caner]

Perhaps if there had been a "god with no name" outside Troy...

There you go, Resha Caner, you can write that.

I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand the reference enough to know what plot you're suggesting.