Cinema World Views

[RDKirk]

How much variety do you see in the world view of the films you watch?

We recently watched a movie on Netflix, Matt Damon in "Downsizing."

Although it bombed miserably in critical reviews and the box office, my wife and I found it very interesting. There are some reasons we think it bombed:

1. The trailers sold it as a comedy, which it definitely was not.

2. It is in the format of a Pilgrim's Progress narrative, which audiences don't see much. It actually touches directly on Bunyan's story in several ways. As such, the protagonist travels from station to station where he is confronted, challenged, and changed at each station before proceeding to the next station. It's not the kind of plot-driven narrative that American audiences are familiar with.

3. It posed some vaguely Christian themes. It got rather blatant at the end, when the character that represented the moral driver of the story revealed herself to be Christian. But there were elements all along the story. The protagonist was essentially a man with the charismatic gift of "helps" who was lost, but searching, until he found a Christian moral driver and learned that he had to give up his life to find his life.

 

[Resha Caner]

Cowboys and samurai (particularly ronin) share enough similarities that the stories swap easily between the countries.

Understood. Some critics consider superheroes to be a post-modernist, amped up version of a cowboy.

A colleague of mine coined an excellent term that perfectly captures my own observations. He commented that the trailer for the latest Robin Hood indicated it had been "Marvelized". I agree 100%.

 

[Resha Caner]

It is in the format of a Pilgrim's Progress narrative, which audiences don't see much.

I thought it looked stupid, so I've not seen it. You had me rethinking my decision until you said the above. Ick. I'm not fond of Pilgrim's Progress or stories with similar structure. IMO they destroy the very purpose of "story", which is to portray the ineffable through example. It makes it all too analytical, and therefore unrealistic and unrelatable. A much better framework for dissecting a series of issues is the frame tale, such as Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

Even then it's difficult to do it well. Chaucer was the master. IMO slicing up life is the reason people find genres such as Hallmark trite. It focuses too much on one aspect of life and ignores too much of the rest.

The trailers sold it as a comedy, which it definitely was not.

This is a constant problem. People will point the finger at "Hollywood", but IMO the real problem is the audience. They want sound bites that are easy to digest, and the movie machine is trying to meet that desire, so they put every movie in a pre-defined box.

After listening to my wife's criticism of my latest movie, I went on a rant about "tropes". How am I supposed to do something original when people don't really want original? My conclusion is that when people say they want something "original", they're not talking about original story structures or arcs. What they really mean is the same story structures and arcs, but with different actors, sets, tones, etc.

It posed some vaguely Christian themes. It got rather blatant at the end ...

That's interesting. At the very least you have me curious enough to dig into the background of the production crew. I always wonder if such things are part of a larger ambition on the part of the producer, writer, or director. However, I'm often disappointed. I really liked The Nativity Story (2006) - of course I'm also a great admirer of Oscar Isaac. Anyway, I dug into the backstory of that movie, and found there wasn't really any religious motive for it. It was simply perceived as an opportunity to capture the Christian holiday market.

Regardless, they did an excellent job ... which also raises some interesting issues about "Christian" film.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

The cross-cultural thing is interesting as well. It was fascinating to compare The Debt (2010, British) with The Debt (2007, Israeli).

So, are you tired of Hollywood because you think the rut is unoriginal or because you don't like the view presented by those films?

Both. The glut of remakes and sequels. The ones that are dishonest remakes of foreign films. I have difficulty as well with the predictability of Hollywood films. The storytelling has become quite poor.

 

[Resha Caner]

Both. The glut of remakes and sequels. The ones that are dishonest remakes of foreign films. I have difficulty as well with the predictability of Hollywood films. The storytelling has become quite poor.

What is it you don't like abut the presented view?

 

[RDKirk]

Both. The glut of remakes and sequels. The ones that are dishonest remakes of foreign films. I have difficulty as well with the predictability of Hollywood films. The storytelling has become quite poor.

Depends.

Every remake of "A Star is Born" has been a pretty good movie.

Most people don't remember the first two versions of "The Maltese Falcon."

 

[bhsmte]

In my view, movies in general have become more one dimensional, compared to decades ago. Just think about how many remakes we have seen in the last 10 years.

IMO, when movies make a world view or political statement, most of them are left leaning, with the exception of some, including many clint eastwood movies.

One thing that i have learned though; whenever hollywood attempts to make a movie based on real life events, they take serious liberties, in twisting the story, that really presents an inaccurate telling of the real story.

 

[durangodawood]

....IMO, when movies make a world view or political statement, most of them are left leaning...

Yes, lots of movies valorize:
self-realization over social conformity.
environmental health over corporate greed.
the historically oppressed over oppressors.

I think this is a good thing generally.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, lots of movies valorize:
self-realization over social conformity.
environmental health over corporate greed.
the historically oppressed over oppressors.

I think this is a good thing generally.

It sells. And that is what their goal is, to make money.

 

[durangodawood]

It sells. And that is what their goal is, to make money.

Yeah, those things appeal to people natural good values.

 

[Resha Caner]

Yes, lots of movies valorize:
self-realization over social conformity.
environmental health over corporate greed.
the historically oppressed over oppressors.

That's the positive spin on it. Someone else might say they glamorize:
* Do what's best for me, not for others
* Preserve artificial spaces that aren't "natural" at all where I can hike without being bothered while others starve
* Oversimplifications of history to make heroes where they didn't exist and to make villains of those who did their best to improve the world

 

[bhsmte]

Yeah, those things appeal to people natural good values.

In general, yes i agree.

Where i have a problem, is when hollywood takes a historical event and twists it every which way, to create a certain story, that didnt happen.

But hey, it is entertainment. I do think, a lot of people take hollywood films, as the gospel truth though.

 

[durangodawood]

That's the positive spin on it. Someone else might say they glamorize:
* Do what's best for me, not for others....

Just to take one of those.... the social conservative view is help others but be who we tell you to be. Thats not gonna fly anymore. And for good reason.

 

[durangodawood]

In general, yes i agree.

Where i have a problem, is when hollywood takes a historical event and twists it every which way, to create a certain story, that didnt happen.

But hey, it is entertainment. I do think, a lot of people take hollywood films, as the gospel truth though.

Like in Black Panther, that mythical Afro-techno nation. I'm pretty sure that never ever happened.

But seriously, youre right. The mass market rejects ambiguity in its real life heros. Hollywood follows suit.

 

[bhsmte]

Like in Black Panther, that mythical Afro-techno nation. I'm pretty sure that never ever happened.

But seriously, youre right. The mass market rejects ambiguity in its real life heros. Hollywood follows suit.

One of the best examples i can give, is oliver stone's JFK. That movie twisted the facts to oblivion and intentionally left out important facts.

 

[durangodawood]

One of the best examples i can give, is oliver stone's JFK. That movie twisted the facts to oblivion and intentionally left about important facts.

Never saw it. But I think we all know what to expect from Oliver Stone.

Did you ever see Spike Lee's Malcolm X? I recall that being an excellent film.

 

[Resha Caner]

Just to take one of those.... the social conservative view is help others but be who we tell you to be. Thats not gonna fly anymore. And for good reason.

It depends whether that's good or not. My views tend toward the Libertarian, so I don't try to force people to behave a certain way. That doesn't mean I think the way they behave is good - I just don't see the salvific benefit of forcing behavior.

Yet, what I find in today's crowd is a stunning lack of understanding about how a community works. Individualism seems to have gone to an extreme. Take marriage as an example. People will speak of how I should stay out of discussions of marriage because it's a personal expression of love between two people. Sorry, but it's more than that. Marriage confers specific legal privileges. If those privileges affect my taxes, then I have a right to voice my opinion. If people don't want me to have any say, then they'll have to surrender the legal privileges. But binding someone to taxes without representation ... well, we know the history of that.

 

[bhsmte]

Never saw it. But I think we all know what to expect from Oliver Stone.

Did you ever see Spike Lee's Malcolm X? I recall that being an excellent film.

No, i never saw it. I actually enjoy many of stone's films, he has made some great movies. To me though, when you are telling a story about one of the most important historical events ever, i think there is an obligation to make an attempt at accuracy. But, with some, ideology is more important, than accuracy.

 

[durangodawood]

It depends whether that's good or not. My views tend toward the Libertarian, so I don't try to force people to behave a certain way. That doesn't mean I think the way they behave is good - I just don't see the salvific benefit of forcing behavior.

Yet, what I find in today's crowd is a stunning lack of understanding about how a community works. Individualism seems to have gone to an extreme. Take marriage as an example. People will speak of how I should stay out of discussions of marriage because it's a personal expression of love between two people. Sorry, but it's more than that. Marriage confers specific legal privileges. If those privileges affect my taxes, then I have a right to voice my opinion. If people don't want me to have any say, then they'll have to surrender the legal privileges. But binding someone to taxes without representation ... well, we know the history of that.

You get your say... until it bumps into constitutional protections. At that point, perhaps you should be arguing that marriage should not entitle anyone to tax privileges.

 

[RDKirk]

You get your say... until it bumps into constitutional protections. At that point, perhaps you should be arguing that marriage should not entitle anyone to tax privileges.

It's not just taxes. Thinking that marriage is purely a personal affair that has no community implications ignores the family and community problems that expand like waves around broken marriages, particularly when children are involved. Then those problems aggregate into significant social issues that become negative statistics in a myriad of ways.